MCU God Tier and Infinity Stones General Revision

[ThanatosX]

After the most recent upgrades that put them solidly into Low 1-C, I want to make another revision to add and change some important pieces of the profiles of the God Tiers. However, this revision wont be only related to the Tier 1 people, since the second and most important part will, instead, focus on a general argument that will affect some other character too. Since this is a pretty big revision, I will go from the least controversial topic to the most controversial one. There is a lot in this, but considering that I don’t have the time to make and follow multiple revisions in a long span of time I prefer to put everything in a single CRT to simplify everything. So, let’s get started.

Note: The parts that are crossed are ones that were refuted.

Infinity Ultron profile clean up

So, first of all, something that shouldn’t be controversial. Apparently, some of the abilities in Infinity Ultron’s profile and some of the scans for them comes from a non canon source (a line of toys), so all this scan should be removed and the abilities connected to those should either have a different justification or be removed as well. Let’s go throught them one by one:

• Statistics Amplification (With the Power Stone. Those that use the Power Stone gain enhanced power and stamina) – The ability in itself is fine, but the justification uses one of the previously mentioned scans. That should be removed and the justification reworked, maybe with something like “The Power Stone empowers those that wield it”.
• Transmutation (With the Reality Stone. His mere punches alone warped the very fabric of reality) – As I will explained in a next point, transumation is completely fine thanks to the second part of the justification, but the first part should be deleted since it uses one of the scans from the toys.
• Telepathy, Dream Manipulation and Mind Manipulation (With the Mind Stone. The Mind Stone combined with all other Stones can allow the user to control all the minds across the entire universe) – All of this should be removed because of the scans. The Mind Stone does have Mind Manipulation, but he never uses it so it’s useless to list it among Infinity Ultron’s abilities.
• Black Hole Creation and Possibly Physics Manipulation (With the Space Stone) – Black Hole Creation should be eliminated since he never uses it, while Physics Manipulation is actually fine and should be solid instead of Possibly, but the justification needs to be changed to be the same as the Tesseract, which is “Holds the power to rewrite the very laws of physics”
• Clairvoyance (With the Time Stone) – It’s fine, but the justification uses those scans again, so it should be unified with Enhanced Sense, Extrasensory Perception and Cosmic Awareness, since he uses it to locate the Watcher.
• Soul Manipulation, Soul Sealing, Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation (With the Soul Stone. The Soul Stone combined with all other Stones can allow the user to control all life in the universe) – Should be removed since he never used it.
• Necromancy (The Soul Stone has the ability to resurrect and conjure the spiritual representation of the people who are dead) – As before, it should be removed since he never used it.

All the removed abilities would still be accessible to Infinity Ultron since he have full access to all the abilities of the Infinity Gauntlet, he simply doesn’t use them in character and as such it would be better to not list them directly in his profile.

Instead, one thing that should be added is this:

• Matter Manipulation and Deconstruction (Blasts from the Power Stone are able to atomize the target) – He do use blasts from that stone, and considering that it was previously accepted that those blasts have this abilities they should be added.

This is all for the first part, which was already pretty long. So now let’s get to the more important stuff.

The Watcher: Acausality Type 4 and Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2

Now let’s get to something else that I think wont be too complex. As explained in the upgrade thread, The Watcher is directly stated to be a 5th dimensional being that exist outside the planes of space and time entirely. This should automatically give the Watcher Acausality Type 4 based on the notes placed in the Type 5 part:

“Note: Being completely independent of space, time, laws, or similar forces does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.”

This should also give him Beyond-Dimensional Existence. Since he is stated to be “outside” space and time, this would give him Type 1, but considering that the word “planes” is used, I think Type 2 would be more appropriate. The word “planes” in this kind of contexts is referred to entire levels of existence, and considering the “5th dimensional” statement, this “outside” is treated as a superiority over this planes rather than him simply being unrestricted by them. So, overall, I think BDE Type 2 makes more sense than Type 1.

As a small supporting factor for that ability, the Watcher was also immune to the Space-Time rewriting punches of Infinity Ultron. And speaking of …

Infinity Ultron: Tramutation and Existence Erasure

The Reality Warping punches are currently listed as being Reality Warping, Space-Time Manipulation and Transmutation. All of them are correct, considering he is breaking apart space and time, rewriting reality and turning the entire environment around them to other things. However, both Infinity Ultron and the Watcher have in their resistences only Reality Warping and Space-Time Manipulation, without the mention of the Transmutation part despite that scene being used in the profile to justify said ability. So, both Infinity Ultron and the Watcher should also have Transmutation listed between their resistences.

This was rather small, but now, regarding the main point of this section, I believe there is a detail that might be relevant to be listed in the profile regarding the Reality Warping punches. When the hits are delievered, we see Reality Warping waves envelop the surroundings, altering everything and everyone. However, after the final punch, both the buildings and the people that were altered by the waves simply disappear, like they were “written off” reality. And sure, there are buildings in the distance, but I am focussing only on the buildings and the people that were around them. If this is a side effect of being hit by those waves too many times or it was something that Infinity Ultron pourposedly did is something I am not sure of, but I believe this should give Infinity Ultron Existence Erasure for erasing everything and everyone that was around him and the Watcher with his punches. Both should also have resistence to Existence Erasure, considering that both were unaffected by his last punch that did the erasure feat.

Note: after a bit of discussion, it was decided the abilities will appear both as his powers and his resistences, but only based on the Reality Warping/Space-time Manipulation. As such it will like this:

"Space-Time Manipulation (Could break through the fabric of space and time with his punches, to the point of making everything around himself disappear. Able to break through many universes by flying)"
"Resistence to Reality Warping and Space-Time Manipulation (Unaffected by the effects of his own punches, which altered the fabric of reality and the spacetime of multiple timelines, affecting people and buildings around him and making them disappear with his last punch)"

Doctor Strange Supreme Acausality Type 2

This is something I am unsure and neutral about, but I want to bring this up anyway just to have a doubt of mine cleared up. So, at the moment Doctor Strange Supreme, and by proxy all the users of the Time Stones, have Acausality Type 1 for this reason: Acausality (Type 1 with the Eye of Agamotto: Was unaffected by the total destruction of his timeline, which erased everything and everyone within the universe)

However, from what I saw in other revisions, this would probabily better qualify for Type 2, since the erasure of a Timeline causes the disappearance of the past, present and future, which means that someone like Strange Supreme that survives the erasure of it’s own Timeline, would get their own past, present and future erased, resulting in a Acausality Type 2.

But I am honestly unsure if this is the case and I am personally neutral for this part, so i will let other decide if it’s enough to qualify or not.

MFTL+ Top Tiers

Note: After some discussions, it was agreed that before deciding if this can be applied or not it's best to wait for What If Season 2 to see if any anti-feat or supporting feat will happen in it. I will keep this part not crossed for future reference in case of a CRT for this.

This might be the most controversial piece of this CRT, despite the last part being the biggest. So, this came to my mind thanks to come users saying that the statement of the Watcher being above everything and everyone should put him above the Celestials in speed, which are rated as MFTL+. While I agree, this is at best supporting evidence and would require a bit more to the table, and after a bit of digging I found a detail that wasn’t brought up before.

But before that, I want to use other supporting evidence just to point out that it would be a consistent rating. The previous statement regarding the Watcher being above everything and everyone is already a good base, but on top of that there is also the fact that Infinity Ultron killed every living being in his Universe, which would include the Celestials, something hard to do if he was billions of times slower, especially considering that he didn’t use huge AoE most of the times since the Milky Way was intact in the galactic explosion scene. There is also the fact that his attacks are always potrayed as equally fast, so that explosion being so much faster than his regular attacks makes little sense, and several characters reacted to his attacks which would put them in the MFTL+ range.

And, speaking of the galactic explosion scene, what I think is the nail in the coffin is in that exact part. After rewatching that, I noticed that most of the Guardians of the Multiverse, were, in fact, able to react to that attack (which is calculated to be MFTL+, for reference), with all of them being able to rise their arms in a defense position after the attack was launched (the feat rightfully happens very fast, so for a better look I suggest to slow down the video). Obviously they couldn’t have dodged the attack even if they wanted to because of it’s huge AoE, but they weren’t blitzed at all by it. I am pretty sure everyone here agrees that someone with Relativistic+ would never be able to even move a finger in front of a MFTL+ attack, and it would also make sense considering that the Guardians of the Multiverse were able to consistently react to Infinity Ultron’s attacks. On top of this, it would also be consistent with the other supporting evidence.

Overall, I think that a MTFL+ rating appears more logical than the current Relativistic+ one, so Infinity Ultron, the Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme should all be upgraded to the speed of the galactic explosion. And before someone asks, What if scaling is separate from the Sacred Timeline one, so none of this would affect the main line characters. But what will affect them is the next part of this already too long CRT …

Universal Energy System for the Infinity Stones

So, this one might be the most complex and perplexing part of this CRT, but hear me out. What I am proposing is that the Infinity Stones works under a Universal Energy System, but that doesn’t mean that the Infinity Stones themselves are the UES, but rather that the energy that empower them is. But since this will be controversial, I will discuss each element that makes up a Universal Energy System and see if this energy qualify or not. For reference, I will use our standard in the page dedicated to this kind of systems, going point by point. So, first things first:

“In order to qualify for a Limited Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using must have explanations or showings that indicate that the powers which should scale to each other draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power) and use up a similar amount of power to each other. Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.”

This should be pretty easy to prove, all the Energy used by those that are empowered or uses a Infinity Stone always comes from the Stone itself, which means that they draw their powers from the same source.

"In order to qualify for a Non-physical Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Limited Energy System, but for all techniques. Additionally, they have to demonstrate or have reliable statements that all their supernatural or otherwise non-physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency. Hence an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their powers and abilities."

The Stones becomes far stronger when combained with each others, to the point that when they are all collected and used to enchand each other they can give the user the power to destroy and reshape the Universe itself. We also see several times that the Stone can be charged in energy to increase their power, like with the Tesseract that can pull energy to power itself up to the point of destroying Earth. But the most damning evidecen is the Reality Stone, which by powering itself up by absorging planets during the Convergence can increase it’s power esponentially, to the point of being able to cast the entire Universe in absolute darkness. So I think they qualify for this point too.

"In order to qualify for a Universal Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Non-physical Energy System. Additionally, they have to demonstrate that they can channel their power through their own bodies in a way that quantifiably enhances them or otherwise allows scaling of their supernatural powers through their physicals. Hence there should be evidence that an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics."

This should be pretty easy too. We saw numerous times that the Stones increases the physical power of those that uses them correctly. Ronan, after taking the Power Stone, became the “strongest being in the Universe”, superior even to Thanos, and was able to tank a Moon Level bomb right in his face. Malekith went from being an almost fodder that was wounded by Frigga to actually, physically fighting equally with Thor after obtaining the Reality Stone. But the most obvious example is Captain Marvel, who received a huge boost in power even to her physical stats thanks to the Space Stone.

However, the Stones doesn’t give this physical empowerement every time, but only those that are actually tapping into their powers can obtain this. For example, Strange only uses the Time Stone to manipulate time and never actually embend himself in it’s powers, so it’s obviously a case by case scenario. But the Stones can physically enhance the users if said user taps into theis powers, as explained above.

"If the power source or universal energy system should be removed from a user by some means that should result in a notable loss in physical strength or alternatively even in physical harm or death. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should be reduced to the level of regular humans, though. Note that removal of energy sources can also have detrimental effects if they are not universal and as such negative effects of removal do not necessarily imply universalness."

And for this last point, I think there should be no problem too. When a Stone is stolen by a character that is enhanced by it, they loses the powers given by them. The same happens when the energy of the Stones is sealed, like with Captain Marvel which was a regular human because the energy of the Space Stone inside of her was sealed. And the Stones themselves can suffer from this too if the energy that empowers them is subtracted, as seen withing the TVA were they are powerless without their energy. So yeah, no problem with this too.

But I already know that the main concern is regarding the fact that objects like the Infinity Stones can’t be a UES. And you would be correct, but as I explained the Stones aren’t the system, but rather the energy that channel throught them is. And this is accepted as something that can happen in the UES page itself.

As we can see in the part dedicated to “Weapons and Other External Power Sources”, a Character + Weapon pair can be considered a UES if the weapon have evidence of working under such system.

"In the case of characters using the energy of an external source, as long as the character shows feats in proportion with a certain amount of energy used out of an external source like magical weapon/artifact, the feat will usually be attributed to the weapon alone, but can be considered an (universal/non-physical/limited) energy system for a Character + Weapon pair, if the character is capable of tapping into that power source to power such a system. This may need to be determined on a case-by-case basis."

Considering everything I have explained so far, I think that there is enough evidence to say that the Infinity Stones tap into a UES to power themselves, so this should qualify. To prevent any confusion and any refutal to this based on the fact that this would change the entire scaling chain, I will point to every change that this will make if accepted:

• Infinity Ultron can use the full power of the Stones both for AP (he became a Low 1-C after obtaining them) and Hax (his Reality Warping was able to affect the Realm of the Watcher after entering it) so his hax will scale to 5-D rather than the current 4-D. If accepted, the Note in his page regarding the 4-D hax should obviously be removed.
• Doctor Stange Supreme’s Time Manipulation was so powerful that he was able to nullify Infinity Ultron’s Time Manipulation. This means that his powers with the Time Stone should all scale to 5-D rather than the current 4-D. His other haxes, however, wont since he is not empowered by the Time Stone, and his Magic does not qualify for a UES.
• Ronan the Accuser currently have a Durability feat of 5-C that only scales to Durability. Considering how UES works, this should scale to his AP and Striking Strenght too. This mean that both should scale to “5-C” just like his Durability. And no, no one else will scale to this just like no one else scale to his currentl High 6-B value.

And that’s it. It’s not as big of a thing as it might look. And, just for calirification, the followings, instead, wont change:

• Malekith’s AP with ability and physical stats already scale to each other, so nothing will change for him. He wont scale to the full power of the Reality Stone absorbing Planets simply because he wasn’t able to do so in the movie, if he actually managed to than his AP probably would have been scaled to the Planet he absorbed. And even his Universal level feat was overtime and as a chain effect brought forward by the fact that the Reality Stone would power itself up, which makes it not scale to the physical stats he had while fighting Thor, but rather the upper limit of what he could have become.
• Captain Marvel already scale to both his ability and physical stats, so she wont change.
• Doctor Strange needs to activate the Time Stone and does not use it to embend himself in it’s power, so it wont count.
• Scarlet Witch’s powers are not directly from the Mind Stone. They are Chaos Magic that was just unlocked by the Stone, which makes her heavily connected to it and nothing else. On top of this, she have no feat of embending her body in her own power to increase her physical abilities, so she doesn’t count either.
• Thanos doesn’t always have his Stones active, he needs to close his hand or take the Stones from his Gauntlet to do so, which means that his physical statistics wont scale to his 3-A destruction with the Infinity Gauntlet, which makes him being wounded by the Stormbreaker consistent.

And with this I think I have said everything that will change and wont change if the Infinity Stones are accepted to work under a UES. As you can see, it’s not that big of a deal, but I think it will still cause a bit of controversy.

Conclusions

This is it. It’s honestly a long revision, so just to recap:

• Clean up of Infinity Ultron’s profile, removing abilities he never used and adding those that he did use.
• Acausality Type 4 and Beyond-Dimensional Existence for the Watcher.
• Existence Erasure for Infinity Ultron and Transmutation/Existence Erasure Resistence to Infinity Ultron and the Watcher.
• Acausality Type 2 for Doctor Strange Supreme
• MFTL+ for Infinity Ultron, the Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme (on hold)
• Infinity Stones taps into a UES, which means: Infinity Ultron’s hax becomes 5-D, Doctor Strange Supreme’s Time Stone abilties becomes 5-D and Ronan get “5-C” in his Attack Potency and Striking Strenght.

I realize this is a lot for a single revision, but considering that I don’t have a lot of time to follow multiple CRT back to back I prefer to condense everything in a single one. If it’s too much I will separete the UES part for a future thread, but I really hope that we can reach a conclusion in this one. I didn’t put scans for every single thing because I think that those that read this wall of text are knowledgeable about certain parts of the MCU, but if some clarification is needed I will provide some further explanation or some scan.

Sorry if there are some grammatical mistakes or if there are some parts that don't go too much in depth, but I need to post this CRT now considering that in the next few days I will be a bit more free and can actually follow what happens in here. However, after posting this I probably won't reply in here for a bit and will discuss rebuttals tomorrow.

As always, thanks to everyone for the time and the help with certain scans that I wouldn’t have found alone (anso also sorry for the long read)

Agree: 9 (Eseseso, Marvel_Champion_07 (agree with the clean up, neutral for the rest), RoTt35, Qawsedf234, LordGriffin1000, TuNtAM, Wishfulite, Darling Aurora, DarkDragonMedeus)

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 0

 

[Eseseso]

Most of this looks good at a glance, though I'm neutral on Type 2 Acausality for Strange Supreme.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'll comment later but MFTL+ still doesn't work for a couple reasons.

 

[KLOL506]

Doctor Stange Supreme’s Time Manipulation was so powerful that he was able to nullify Infinity Ultron’s Time Manipulation. This means that his powers with the Time Stone should all scale to 5-D rather than the current 4-D. His other haxes, however, wont since he is not empowered by the Time Stone, and his Magic does not qualify for a UES.

Then it qualifies for a LES (Limited Energy System).

 

[Qawsedf234]

After the most recent upgrades that put them solidly into Low 1-C, I want to make another revision to add and change some important pieces of the profiles of the God Tiers. However, this revision wont be only related to the Tier 1 people, since the second and most important part will, instead, focus on a general argument that will affect some other character too. Since this is a pretty big revision, I will go from the least controversial topic to the most controversial one. There is a lot in this, but considering that I don’t have the time to make and follow multiple revisions in a long span of time I prefer to put everything in a single CRT to simplify everything. So, let’s get started.

Infinity Ultron profile clean up

So, first of all, something that shouldn’t be controversial. Apparently, some of the abilities in Infinity Ultron’s profile and some of the scans for them comes from a non canon source (a line of toys), so all this scan should be removed and the abilities connected to those should either have a different justification or be removed as well. Let’s go throught them one by one:

• Statistics Amplification (With the Power Stone. Those that use the Power Stone gain enhanced power and stamina) – The ability in itself is fine, but the justification uses one of the previously mentioned scans. That should be removed and the justification reworked, maybe with something like “The Power Stone empowers those that wield it”.
• Transmutation (With the Reality Stone. His mere punches alone warped the very fabric of reality) – As I will explained in a next point, transumation is completely fine thanks to the second part of the justification, but the first part should be deleted since it uses one of the scans from the toys.
• Telepathy, Dream Manipulation and Mind Manipulation (With the Mind Stone. The Mind Stone combined with all other Stones can allow the user to control all the minds across the entire universe) – All of this should be removed because of the scans. The Mind Stone does have Mind Manipulation, but he never uses it so it’s useless to list it among Infinity Ultron’s abilities.
• Black Hole Creation and Possibly Physics Manipulation (With the Space Stone) – Black Hole Creation should be eliminated since he never uses it, while Physics Manipulation is actually fine and should be solid instead of Possibly, but the justification needs to be changed to be the same as the Tesseract, which is “Holds the power to rewrite the very laws of physics”
• Clairvoyance (With the Time Stone) – It’s fine, but the justification uses those scans again, so it should be unified with Enhanced Sense, Extrasensory Perception and Cosmic Awareness, since he uses it to locate the Watcher.
• Soul Manipulation, Soul Sealing, Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation (With the Soul Stone. The Soul Stone combined with all other Stones can allow the user to control all life in the universe) – Should be removed since he never used it.
• Necromancy (The Soul Stone has the ability to resurrect and conjure the spiritual representation of the people who are dead) – As before, it should be removed since he never used it.

All the removed abilities would still be accessible to Infinity Ultron since he have full access to all the abilities of the Infinity Gauntlet, he simply doesn’t use them in character and as such it would be better to not list them directly in his profile.

Instead, one thing that should be added is this:

• Matter Manipulation and Deconstruction (Blasts from the Power Stone are able to atomize the target) – He do use blasts from that stone, and considering that it was previously accepted that those blasts have this abilities they should be added.

This is all for the first part, which was already pretty long. So now let’s get to the more important stuff.

I don't have a problem with any of these

The Watcher: Acausality Type 4 and Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2

Now let’s get to something else that I think wont be too complex. As explained in the upgrade thread, The Watcher is directly stated to be a 5th dimensional being that exist outside the planes of space and time entirely. This should automatically give the Watcher Acausality Type 4 based on the notes placed in the Type 5 part:

“Note: Being completely independent of space, time, laws, or similar forces does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.”

This should also give him Beyond-Dimensional Existence. Since he is stated to be “outside” space and time, this would give him Type 1, but considering that the word “planes” is used, I think Type 2 would be more appropriate. The word “planes” in this kind of contexts is referred to entire levels of existence, and considering the “5th dimensional” statement, this “outside” is treated as a superiority over this planes rather than him simply being unrestricted by them. So, overall, I think BDE Type 2 makes more sense than Type 1.

As a small supporting factor for both os this abilities, the Watcher was immune to the Space-Time rewriting punches of Infinity Ultron. And speaking of …

So I want you to reread two sentences you wrote here:

• The watcher is directly stated to be a 5th dimensional being
• This should give him Beyond-Dimensional Existence

The Watcher cannot be have BDE if he is 5D. That literally stops him from having this power.

In the MCU time is a 4D construct which is why he's above it and the Watcher doesn't follow normal rules. In addition both Ultron and the Watcher can be predicted with precog, meaning they can't be immune to precog or outside of it.

Infinity Ultron: Tramutation and Existence Erasure

The Reality Warping punches are currently listed as being Reality Warping, Space-Time Manipulation and Transmutation. All of them are correct, considering he is breaking apart space and time, rewriting reality and turning the entire environment around them to other things. However, both Infinity Ultron and the Watcher have in their resistences only Reality Warping and Space-Time Manipulation, without the mention of the Transmutation part despite that scene being used in the profile to justify said ability. So, both Infinity Ultron and the Watcher should also have Transmutation listed between their resistences.

To get a resistance to the power you have to resist a direct application of it. People are changed not because Ultron shot a beam at them and altered their forms, but because he was retconning the entire universe. So I don't think they should get this.

This was rather small, but now, regarding the main point of this section, I believe there is a detail that might be relevant to be listed in the profile regarding the Reality Warping punches. When the hits are delievered, we see Reality Warping waves envelop the surroundings, altering everything and everyone. However, after the final punch, both the buildings and the people that were altered by the waves simply disappear, like they were “written off” reality. And sure, there are buildings in the distance, but I am focussing only on the buildings and the people that were around them. If this is a side effect of being hit by those waves too many times or it was something that Infinity Ultron pourposedly did is something I am not sure of, but I believe this should give Infinity Ultron Existence Erasure for erasing everything and everyone that was around him and the Watcher with his punches. Both should also have resistence to Existence Erasure, considering that both were unaffected by his last punch that did the erasure feat.

This is not EE, but Ultron changing the universe as a by product of his blows. It's just Space-Time Manipulation on a universal scale.

Doctor Strange Supreme Acausality Type 2

This is something I am unsure and neutral about, but I want to bring this up anyway just to have a doubt of mine cleared up. So, at the moment Doctor Strange Supreme, and by proxy all the users of the Time Stones, have Acausality Type 1 for this reason: Acausality (Type 1 with the Eye of Agamotto: Was unaffected by the total destruction of his timeline, which erased everything and everyone within the universe)

However, from what I saw in other revisions, this would probabily better qualify for Type 2, since the erasure of a Timeline causes the disappearance of the past, present and future, which means that someone like Strange Supreme that survives the erasure of it’s own Timeline, would get their own past, present and future erased, resulting in a Acausality Type 2.

But I am honestly unsure if this is the case and I am personally neutral for this part, so i will let other decide if it’s enough to qualify or not.

The Watcher could perfectly predict all of Strange's actions as noted in S1E9

DR. STRANGE SUPREME: You foresaw every moment from the failed Infinity Crusher, to Killmonger’s betrayal, and my…

THE WATCHER: Your sacrifice.

DR. STRANGE SUPREME “Sacrifice”? That would imply I had something to lose.

Which precludes him from having Acasual Type 2.

MFTL+ Top Tiers

This might be the most controversial piece of this CRT, despite the last part being the biggest. So, this came to my mind thanks to come users saying that the statement of the Watcher being above everything and everyone should put him above the Celestials in speed, which are rated as MFTL+. While I agree, this is at best supporting evidence and would require a bit more to the table, and after a bit of digging I found a detail that wasn’t brought up before.

But before that, I want to use other supporting evidence just to point out that it would be a consistent rating. The previous statement regarding the Watcher being above everything and everyone is already a good base, but on top of that there is also the fact that Infinity Ultron killed every living being in his Universe, which would include the Celestials, something hard to do if he was billions of times slower, especially considering that he didn’t use huge AoE most of the times since the Milky Way was intact in the galactic explosion scene. There is also the fact that his attacks are always potrayed as equally fast, so that explosion being so much faster than his regular attacks makes little sense, and several characters reacted to his attacks which would put them in the MFTL+ range.

Lets look at the MFTL+ justification for the Celestials:

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Celestials can cover intergalactic distances with just their sheer size[7])

They are MFTL+ because they are big, not because they are fast.

Do you know what a power Ultron has? Turning big. In order for this scaling to work you have to prove the Celestials keep their speed throughout all transformations rather than getting faster while getting bigger. For example we note size speed changes in our Ant-Man profile

Athletic Human travel speed normally and when shrunken, Superhuman running speed when Giant. Massively Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed normally, when shrunken and Giant (Kept up with Kang. Punched a Leviathan mid-air)

So we already accept that there isn't a universal speed thing going on.

And, speaking of the galactic explosion scene, what I think is the nail in the coffin is in that exact part. After rewatching that, I noticed that most of the Guardians of the Multiverse, were, in fact, able to react to that attack (which is calculated to be MFTL+, for reference), with all of them being able to rise their arms in a defense position after the attack was launched (the feat rightfully happens very fast, so for a better look I suggest to slow down the video). Obviously they couldn’t have dodged the attack even if they wanted to because of it’s huge AoE, but they weren’t blitzed at all by it. I am pretty sure everyone here agrees that someone with Relativistic+ would never be able to even move a finger in front of a MFTL+ attack, and it would also make sense considering that the Guardians of the Multiverse were able to consistently react to Infinity Ultron’s attacks. On top of this, it would also be consistent with the other supporting evidence.

They raised their shields/arms before the attack started. I don't see this being anything other than Ultron's attack speed at the moment.

Universal Energy System for the Infinity Stones

So, this one might be the most complex and perplexing part of this CRT, but hear me out. What I am proposing is that the Infinity Stones works under a Universal Energy System, but that doesn’t mean that the Infinity Stones themselves are the UES, but rather that the energy that empower them is. But since this will be controversial, I will discuss each element that makes up a Universal Energy System and see if this energy qualify or not. For reference, I will use our standard in the page dedicated to this kind of systems, going point by point. So, first things first:

“In order to qualify for a Limited Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using must have explanations or showings that indicate that the powers which should scale to each other draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power) and use up a similar amount of power to each other. Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.”

This should be pretty easy to prove, all the Energy used by those that are empowered or uses a Infinity Stone always comes from the Stone itself, which means that they draw their powers from the same source.

I vaguely get this, but it also doesn't completely work. The Reality Stone and Power Stone requires reactions for them to work at a higher level.

"In order to qualify for a Non-physical Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Limited Energy System, but for all techniques. Additionally, they have to demonstrate or have reliable statements that all their supernatural or otherwise non-physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency. Hence an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their powers and abilities."

The Stones becomes far stronger when combained with each others, to the point that when they are all collected and used to enchand each other they can give the user the power to destroy and reshape the Universe itself. We also see several times that the Stone can be charged in energy to increase their power, like with the Tesseract that can pull energy to power itself up to the point of destroying Earth. But the most damning evidecen is the Reality Stone, which by powering itself up by absorging planets during the Convergence can increase it’s power esponentially, to the point of being able to cast the entire Universe in absolute darkness. So I think they qualify for this point too.

The stones together are fragments of the creation of the universe's fundamental forces. Which is why when they're together its so much stronger. But on their own they vary widely in strength.

"In order to qualify for a Universal Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Non-physical Energy System. Additionally, they have to demonstrate that they can channel their power through their own bodies in a way that quantifiably enhances them or otherwise allows scaling of their supernatural powers through their physicals. Hence there should be evidence that an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics."

This should be pretty easy too. We saw numerous times that the Stones increases the physical power of those that uses them correctly. Ronan, after taking the Power Stone, became the “strongest being in the Universe”, superior even to Thanos, and was able to tank a Moon Level bomb right in his face. Malekith went from being an almost fodder that was wounded by Frigga to actually, physically fighting equally with Thor after obtaining the Reality Stone. But the most obvious example is Captain Marvel, who received a huge boost in power even to her physical stats thanks to the Space Stone.

However, the Stones doesn’t give this physical empowerement every time, but only those that are actually tapping into their powers can obtain this. For example, Strange only uses the Time Stone to manipulate time and never actually embend himself in it’s powers, so it’s obviously a case by case scenario. But the Stones can physically enhance the users if said user taps into theis powers, as explained above.

"If the power source or universal energy system should be removed from a user by some means that should result in a notable loss in physical strength or alternatively even in physical harm or death. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should be reduced to the level of regular humans, though. Note that removal of energy sources can also have detrimental effects if they are not universal and as such negative effects of removal do not necessarily imply universalness."

And for this last point, I think there should be no problem too. When a Stone is stolen by a character that is enhanced by it, they loses the powers given by them. The same happens when the energy of the Stones is sealed, like with Captain Marvel which was a regular human because the energy of the Space Stone inside of her was sealed. And the Stones themselves can suffer from this too if the energy that empowers them is subtracted, as seen withing the TVA were they are powerless without their energy. So yeah, no problem with this too.

But I already know that the main concern is regarding the fact that objects like the Infinity Stones can’t be a UES. And you would be correct, but as I explained the Stones aren’t the system, but rather the energy that channel throught them is. And this is accepted as something that can happen in the UES page itself.

As we can see in the part dedicated to “Weapons and Other External Power Sources”, a Character + Weapon pair can be considered a UES if the weapon have evidence of working under such system.

"In the case of characters using the energy of an external source, as long as the character shows feats in proportion with a certain amount of energy used out of an external source like magical weapon/artifact, the feat will usually be attributed to the weapon alone, but can be considered an (universal/non-physical/limited) energy system for a Character + Weapon pair, if the character is capable of tapping into that power source to power such a system. This may need to be determined on a case-by-case basis."

Considering everything I have explained so far, I think that there is enough evidence to say that the Infinity Stones tap into a UES to power themselves, so this should qualify. To prevent any confusion and any refutal to this based on the fact that this would change the entire scaling chain, I will point to every change that this will make if accepted:

• Infinity Ultron can use the full power of the Stones both for AP (he became a Low 1-C after obtaining them) and Hax (his Reality Warping was able to affect the Realm of the Watcher after entering it) so his hax will scale to 5-D rather than the current 4-D. If accepted, the Note in his page regarding the 4-D hax should obviously be removed.
• Doctor Stange Supreme’s Time Manipulation was so powerful that he was able to nullify Infinity Ultron’s Time Manipulation. This means that his powers with the Time Stone should all scale to 5-D rather than the current 4-D. His other haxes, however, wont since he is not empowered by the Time Stone, and his Magic does not qualify for a UES.
• Ronan the Accuser currently have a Durability feat of 5-C that only scales to Durability. Considering how UES works, this should scale to his AP and Striking Strenght too. This mean that both should scale to “5-C” just like his Durability. And no, no one else will scale to this just like no one else scale to his currentl High 6-B value.

I'm okay with the first two because we see Ultron and Strange maybe having feats of that level. But the power stone's AP is explicitly limited when bonded with something. Ronan had to touch the Cosmo Hammer to the ground to destroy the planet rather than punch it for the plot to work.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

MFTL+ Top Tiers

This might be the most controversial piece of this CRT, despite the last part being the biggest. So, this came to my mind thanks to come users saying that the statement of the Watcher being above everything and everyone should put him above the Celestials in speed, which are rated as MFTL+. While I agree, this is at best supporting evidence and would require a bit more to the table, and after a bit of digging I found a detail that wasn’t brought up before.

But before that, I want to use other supporting evidence just to point out that it would be a consistent rating. The previous statement regarding the Watcher being above everything and everyone is already a good base, but on top of that there is also the fact that Infinity Ultron killed every living being in his Universe, which would include the Celestials, something hard to do if he was billions of times slower, especially considering that he didn’t use huge AoE most of the times since the Milky Way was intact in the galactic explosion scene. There is also the fact that his attacks are always potrayed as equally fast, so that explosion being so much faster than his regular attacks makes little sense, and several characters reacted to his attacks which would put them in the MFTL+ range.

And, speaking of the galactic explosion scene, what I think is the nail in the coffin is in that exact part. After rewatching that, I noticed that most of the Guardians of the Multiverse, were, in fact, able to react to that attack (which is calculated to be MFTL+, for reference), with all of them being able to rise their arms in a defense position after the attack was launched (the feat rightfully happens very fast, so for a better look I suggest to slow down the video). Obviously they couldn’t have dodged the attack even if they wanted to because of it’s huge AoE, but they weren’t blitzed at all by it. I am pretty sure everyone here agrees that someone with Relativistic+ would never be able to even move a finger in front of a MFTL+ attack, and it would also make sense considering that the Guardians of the Multiverse were able to consistently react to Infinity Ultron’s attacks. On top of this, it would also be consistent with the other supporting evidence.

Overall, I think that a MTFL+ rating appears more logical than the current Relativistic+ one, so Infinity Ultron, the Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme should all be upgraded to the speed of the galactic explosion. And before someone asks, What if scaling is separate from the Sacred Timeline one, so none of this would affect the main line characters. But what will affect them is the next part of this already too long CRT …

I'm watching the Guardians of the Multiverse scene frame-by-frame. They mostly have their arms/shields/weapons raised up, but Star-Lord's arms were still noticeably moving to "shield" himself from the blast before it reached him, and the others also had blocking motions (albeit comparatively minor and not as obvious) after the blast was shot out. I'm neutral to using them for scaling overall

The Watcher also reacted to and blocked energy blasts from Infinity Ultron, so there's that

Infinity Ultron profile clean up

So, first of all, something that shouldn’t be controversial. Apparently, some of the abilities in Infinity Ultron’s profile and some of the scans for them comes from a non canon source (a line of toys), so all this scan should be removed and the abilities connected to those should either have a different justification or be removed as well. Let’s go throught them one by one:

• Statistics Amplification (With the Power Stone. Those that use the Power Stone gain enhanced power and stamina) – The ability in itself is fine, but the justification uses one of the previously mentioned scans. That should be removed and the justification reworked, maybe with something like “The Power Stone empowers those that wield it”.
• Transmutation (With the Reality Stone. His mere punches alone warped the very fabric of reality) – As I will explained in a next point, transumation is completely fine thanks to the second part of the justification, but the first part should be deleted since it uses one of the scans from the toys.
• Telepathy, Dream Manipulation and Mind Manipulation (With the Mind Stone. The Mind Stone combined with all other Stones can allow the user to control all the minds across the entire universe) – All of this should be removed because of the scans. The Mind Stone does have Mind Manipulation, but he never uses it so it’s useless to list it among Infinity Ultron’s abilities.
• Black Hole Creation and Possibly Physics Manipulation (With the Space Stone) – Black Hole Creation should be eliminated since he never uses it, while Physics Manipulation is actually fine and should be solid instead of Possibly, but the justification needs to be changed to be the same as the Tesseract, which is “Holds the power to rewrite the very laws of physics”
• Clairvoyance (With the Time Stone) – It’s fine, but the justification uses those scans again, so it should be unified with Enhanced Sense, Extrasensory Perception and Cosmic Awareness, since he uses it to locate the Watcher.
• Soul Manipulation, Soul Sealing, Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation (With the Soul Stone. The Soul Stone combined with all other Stones can allow the user to control all life in the universe) – Should be removed since he never used it.
• Necromancy (The Soul Stone has the ability to resurrect and conjure the spiritual representation of the people who are dead) – As before, it should be removed since he never used it

I fully agree

Everything else I'm neutral because I'm not knowledgeable enough on these aspects

 

[ThanatosX]

Ok, I finally have a bit of time to respond. Fortunately the thread wasn't that active anyways.

So I want you to reread two sentences you wrote here:

• The watcher is directly stated to be a 5th dimensional being
• This should give him Beyond-Dimensional Existence

The Watcher cannot be have BDE if he is 5D. That literally stops him from having this power.

In the MCU time is a 4D construct which is why he's above it and the Watcher doesn't follow normal rules. In addition both Ultron and the Watcher can be predicted with precog, meaning they can't be immune to precog or outside of it.

On second thought, yeah, it makes sense for the Watcher to not qualify for BDE Type 1 or 2. However, I am not sure what's your opinion on the Acausality Type 4.
But for the last part, I am pretty sure that the Watcher wasn't able to use Precognition on Ultron, which is why he was scared. He even says that he can see everything but he didn't see him being able to perceive him, and I am not sure the Watcher was ever affected by Precognition actually, but I might misremeber. Also, that wouldn't be an anti-feat on his own, considering that there are characters in this wiki that are able to use Precognition on Acausal Type 4. Shulk from Xenoblade is the first example that come into mind to me.

To get a resistance to the power you have to resist a direct application of it. People are changed not because Ultron shot a beam at them and altered their forms, but because he was retconning the entire universe. So I don't think they should get this.

Reality Warping is a umbrella term under which multible abilities can be placed under, as seen in the page for this ability. The punches were reality warping for sure, but the effect of said reality warping are just as important as the reality warping itself. In this case, the RW punches were affecting reality by altrering and transmutating everything and everyone. How it was done was throught reality warping, but the effects were those of Transmutation. Basically, a Reality Warping based Transmutation, not dissimiliar to those of Bill Cipher and Discord. Sure, the simple fact of resisting reality warping does technically give the resistence to the effects of said RW, but also it's important to note in the profile that this kind of Transmutation based on Reality Warping doesn't work on them. At worst, this scene can be put under his reality warping resistence, but I would honestly prefer it to be it's own voice. I said Reality Warping too many times in this section lol

This is not EE, but Ultron changing the universe as a by product of his blows. It's just Space-Time Manipulation on a universal scale.

As before, it is Space-time Manipulation, but it's how that said ability is applied that it's important to note, considering that most abilities in any verse fall under certain categories like Reality Warping, Space-time Manipulation, etc... In this case, said Space-time Manipulation is applied to seemingly erase everyone and everything around them, making it a Reality Warping/Space-time Manipulation based Existence Erasure, which as before could be mentioned in his resistences under the Reality Warping section, but I am honestly more incline towards making it it's own voice.

The Watcher could perfectly predict all of Strange's actions as noted in S1E9
Which precludes him from having Acasual Type 2.

Fair. Technically speaking, it could very well be that the Watcher Precognition allows him to see Acasaual Type 2, as mentioned before there are multiple characters that are able to Precogn people with Acausality Type 4, but honestly I am really indifferent to this so even if it doesn't pass I wont complain at all.

Lets look at the MFTL+ justification for the Celestials:
They are MFTL+ because they are big, not because they are fast.

Do you know what a power Ultron has? Turning big. In order for this scaling to work you have to prove the Celestials keep their speed throughout all transformations rather than getting faster while getting bigger. For example we note size speed changes in our Ant-Man profile

I can't quote the full part (hate doing this on mobile but I have no choice) but regarding the argument of the Celestials, your counter-arguments are fair taken singularly, but given every supporting evidence I don't think that's the case, especially considering that, as mentioned before, the Milky Way is perfectly intact in the Galactic Esplosion scene, and when Ultron used the Size Manipulation he caused such massive damages that if he did it in his Universe he would have most likely nuked the Milky Way too.

They raised their shields/arms before the attack started. I don't see this being anything other than Ultron's attack speed at the moment.

I imagined that this would have been one of the counter-arguments and wanted to include the debunk of this in the OP, but didn't find the time to do so. I will take the opportunity to do so now.
There are several problems with this argument. First of all, a Relativistic+ or even a FTL chatacter would be completely frozen when faced against an attack of such speed. According to what I found, the galactic explosion was calculated to be around 400 billions times faster than light (or at least that's what I found using a convertor). If they were billions of times slower, they would be completely frozen in time compared to the speed of the explosion, even if they started the movement before said explosion started. As you can see, their movements continue while the explosion is happening and is going directly towards them, which means that their speed is not billions of times slower.
Second, most of the character already started the movement, you are right, but as Marvel_Champion_07 mentioned Star Lord starts his movement while the explosion is travelling towards them, starting in a normal position and rising his arms in a X position in front of his face before the explosion hits them. Which means that he indeed reacted to the speed of the attack, trying to defend himself from it.
Lastly, if the animators actually wanted to show them being blitzed by the explosion it would have been much easier to just show them completely still while the explosion hits them and the protection spells activates. The fact itself that they took the time to show them react means that their intention was to potray that they were indeed reacting to it.
Also, as a small note, I really don't see any evidence that the galactic explosion was billions of times faster than his regular attacks. If the Guardians of the Multiverse were Blitzed by that than sure, I could understand, but they reacted to it the same way they did for every single one of his attacks.

I'm okay with the first two because we see Ultron and Strange maybe having feats of that level. But the power stone's AP is explicitly limited when bonded with something. Ronan had to touch the Cosmo Hammer to the ground to destroy the planet rather than punch it for the plot to work.

Fair, the Ronan part was the one that was a bit more iffy to me anyways, but countrary to the others I couldn't find a counter-argument so I put him in there, but you are indeed correct that, while he was amplified, he still needed the Cosmo Hammer to touch the ground, which means that his amplification wasn't like the ones given to people like Malekith or Captain Marvel.

Then it qualifies for a LES (Limited Energy System).

Yes, it probably do qualify for that.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Also, as a small note, I really don't see any evidence that the galactic explosion was billions of times faster than his regular attacks. If the Guardians of the Multiverse were Blitzed by that than sure, I could understand, but they reacted to it the same way they did for every single one of his attacks.

I have been told that attack speed is treated as the same when the character is fighting seriously and has no reason to hold it back, unless there's an explicit statement that it is slower or faster. So at the very least, Infinity Ultron's energy attacks all have the same speed

 

[RoTt35]

I disagree with BDE, Aca 2 and Ronan, agree with everything else

 

[Qawsedf234]

At worst, this scene can be put under his reality warping resistence, but I would honestly prefer it to be it's own voice.

Personally speaking resisting an ability should come a direct resistance of that thing. Not a byproduct of it. Listing it under RW resistance is fine but I don't think it should be its own thing.

especially considering that, as mentioned before, the Milky Way is perfectly intact in the Galactic Esplosion scene, and when Ultron used the Size Manipulation he caused such massive damages that if he did it in his Universe he would have most likely nuked the Milky Way too.

Ultron destroys the entire universe, not just the Milky Way. We known the Nine Realms alone are nine different galaxies and there's tons more than just that. This would only work if everyone lived in the Milky Way when I don't think they do.

Second, most of the character already started the movement, you are right, but as Marvel_Champion_07 mentioned Star Lord starts his movement while the explosion is travelling towards them, starting in a normal position and rising his arms in a X position in front of his face before the explosion hits them. Which means that he indeed reacted to the speed of the attack, trying to defend himself from it.
Lastly, if the animators actually wanted to show them being blitzed by the explosion it would have been much easier to just show them completely still while the explosion hits them and the protection spells activates. The fact itself that they took the time to show them react means that their intention was to potray that they were indeed reacting to it.

Star Lord still had his arms up before the wave hit and if he made any movement it was minor. I just don't see Ultron qualifying for that sped, especially when he's tagged by an unamped Black Widow after all of this and there's no indication that he's faster than normal (SW tags him, plenty of the heroes in the intro section don't get blitzed by Ultron and Captain Marvel is capable of fighting him).

 

[ThanatosX]

Personally speaking resisting an ability should come a direct resistance of that thing. Not a byproduct of it. Listing it under RW resistance is fine but I don't think it should be its own thing.

Maybe something like this could work:

"Resistence to Reality Warping and Space-Time Manipulation (Unaffected by the effects of his own punches, which altered the fabric of reality and the spacetime of multiple timelines, affecting people and buildings around him and making them disappear with his last punch)"
Basically, linking them under the resistence to Reality Warping and Space-time Manipulation, this way both this abilities are mentioned to be resisted, but only if the basis of those are Reality Warping or Space-time Manipulation.
Transmutation, instead, is already listed in the profile so nothing changes for that.
Meanwhile the Existence Erasure is a bit more complex, but maybe something like this:
"Space-Time Manipulation (Could break through the fabric of space and time with his punches, to the point of making everything around himself disappear. Able to break through many universes by flying)"
Same as before, this way it's listed as something that he does have, but only subordinate to/as a consequence of the Space-Time Manipulation.
I have seen some profile do this when some ability is derivated from another so it should be fine I think.

Star Lord still had his arms up before the wave hit and if he made any movement it was minor. I just don't see Ultron qualifying for that sped, especially when he's tagged by an unamped Black Widow after all of this and there's no indication that he's faster than normal (SW tags him, plenty of the heroes in the intro section don't get blitzed by Ultron and Captain Marvel is capable of fighting him).

That might not be Star Lord, but I am talking about the one on the top of the screen. Going slowly, I think I see him with his arms halfway rised, and before the explosion he is able to quickly raise his arms completely and put them in a X position. This is a pretty notable movement, considering that a verse I know had their characters listed as MFTL+ because a character was able to slightly rise his arm before a MFTL+ space-ship passed by him (and it was a pretty popular verse too, with the rating accepted in a CRT and everything).
Regarding the rest, I am pretty sure that immediately after meeting Black Widow and after Ultron reached them, Strange quickly used the spell on her too before the fight started, but I might misremember. When I will have time I will check that. However, I wouldn't find it that much strange, considering that we rate Black Widow as Massively Hypersonic + at best and that version was already able to react to at least Relativistic+ attacks, meaning that she was much faster than the one we know, and we technically don't scale variants to the normal version of themselves so it wouldn't create inconsistencies.
Scarlet Witch is able to hit him mainly because he was staying still, the moment that he gets pissed he destroy her quickly before she has time to react.
And in the beginning part and with Captain Marvel he was extremely casual, the moment he took Captain Marvel slightly seriously he used a shockwaves that, if calculated, would probably be FTL too. So it wouldn't be that much inconsistent neither imho.
Fortuntaly, the scaling chain of What if is pretty isolated compared to everything else, so it wouldn't create scaling issues. The moment that there will be blatant anti-feat, stuff like this should obviously be discussed again if anything like this is accepted.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Assuming an unamped apocalypse Widow is MHS+, tagging a >>>Relativistic+ Ultron would be an outlier anyway lol

It would be no different were he MFTL+

 

[Qawsedf234]

Same as before, this way it's listed as something that he does have, but only subordinate to/as a consequence of the Space-Time Manipulation.
I have seen some profile do this when some ability is derivated from another so it should be fine I think.

Yeah I'm cool with that.

Fortuntaly, the scaling chain of What if is pretty isolated compared to everything else, so it wouldn't create scaling issues. The moment that there will be blatant anti-feat, stuff like this should obviously be discussed again if anything like this is accepted.

Well we know from the Episode title leaks that Doctor Strange Supreme will be in Season 2.

So how about this: If nothing happens that contradicts the MFTL+ in season two we can scale Infinity Ultron, Supreme and Watcher to MFTL+. Otherwise we should keep them at their Rel+ rating since they don't have any hard feats of blitzing other characters in the series.

 

[ThanatosX]

So how about this: If nothing happens that contradicts the MFTL+ in season two we can scale Infinity Ultron, Supreme and Watcher to MFTL+. Otherwise we should keep them at their Rel+ rating since they don't have any hard feats of blitzing other characters in the series.

Yeah, I like the idea. The Season 2 of What If might have feats that could support or debunk the MFTL+ rating, so waiting for that will make things easier one way or another. It shouldn't be a long wait anyway (I think it comes out at the end of the year), so we can put that part of the CRT on hold for now and make a new one in the future.

Considering that everything seems to be settled, tomorrow morning I will update the OP by removing the parts that were debunked, modifying certain things to specify how they will be added like the Reality Warping stuff and add a note for the MFTL+ rating that it will be on hold for now. After that, we will only need more inputs from staff members and regular users.

 

[ThanatosX]

Considering that everything seems to be settled, tomorrow morning I will update the OP by removing the parts that were debunked, modifying certain things to specify how they will be added like the Reality Warping stuff and add a note for the MFTL+ rating that it will be on hold for now. After that, we will only need more inputs from staff members and regular users.

Done so. Updated the vote tally too, which is based on the updated OP and as such takes into consideration only the updated parts. Now all is needed is more inputs.

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump.

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump²

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump³

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump thinking about leaving this thread on hold until What if Season 2 comes out, maybe with the MFTL+ part there will be more inputs.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

@LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @Sir_Ovens @GyroNutz @Starter_Pack @Emirp sumitpo

Sorry to bother you, but could you help give input in this CRT please?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm okay with the above changes. The speed stuff is just waiting on Season 2.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I think the ability changes/additions are fine but I'm not knowledgeable enough to give a solid opinion on the speed and UES stuff. I'm fine with what majority of staff think is best for those.

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Bump

 

[ThanatosX]

Bump

 

[TuNtAM]

agree

 

[FentyBeauty]

i agree with the changes for infinity ultron.

tho i’m a little unsure about the UES and the infinity stones, since if you’re referring to supreme strange‘s hax only being 5d then i think that would only count as a limited energy system if it doesn’t apply to his physical statistics?? but then again, i’m not really educated in that sort of topic so correct me if i’m wrong. i’ll just stay neutral with that and wait for other people who are familiar with that.

edit: nevermind, i saw what you said about UES not applying for strange’s magic.

other than that, i also agree with type 4 acausality for the watcher.

 

[DarlingAurora]

I can vote for agreeing? T~T

 

[ThanatosX]

I can vote for agreeing? T~T

No just kidding, please do, I needs more agreements so badly

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with KLOL it be the Limited Energy system rather than UES. And unsure about Massively FTL+ stuff, but the rest looks good.

 

[ThanatosX]

I think this have enough agreements both from staff members and regular users to be applied, right?
To make a small recap just for making sure everyone is on the same page and for future reference, this is what was accepted:

• Removal of abilities that Infinity Ultron never used;
• Addition of Matter Manipulation/Deconstruction to Infinity Ultron's profile since he did use it;
• Acausality Type 4 for the Watcher;
• Infinity Ultron's Reality Warping and Space-time Manipulation have Transmutation and Existence Erasure as thiers application, and both Ultron and the Watcher resists said application;
• Infinity Ultron's hax and abilities are 5-D;
• Doctor Strange Supreme's power with the Time Stone are 5-D.

Instead, for the rest:

• BDE was pointed out to be incorrect;
• Acasality Type 2 for Strange Supreme was agreed to be inconsistent;
• Ronan's amplification was noted to not be proportinal to the amplification of other characters.

Meanwhile, the MFTL+ value was agreed to be but on hold until the next season of What If comes out.

If everything is alright, I think this can be applied.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Acasual Type 4 has been tweaked. You have to give an example of what he resists with Type 4 now.

 

[Eseseso]

Acasual Type 4 has been tweaked. You have to give an example of what he resists with Type 4 now.

The revision to Type 4 Acausality hasn't been accepted.

 

[ThanatosX]

Acasual Type 4 has been tweaked. You have to give an example of what he resists with Type 4 now.

Wait, really? I saw a Staff-Only revision regarding Acausality Type 4, but never actually got around to read what it was about.
In this case it would be a bit complicated to point out what kind of resistence this Acausality would give him. I guess regular Causality Manipulation, since this kind of power require the manipulation of cause and effect which are elements that require time to happen, but I don't know for the rest.
I know a lot of characters with Acausality Type 4 that have it because of being outside time, so I believe it should be specified what kind of resistence this gives. I will try to give a look at it.

 

[Eseseso]

Wait, really? I saw a Staff-Only revision regarding Acausality Type 4, but never actually got around to read what it was about.
In this case it would be a bit complicated to point out what kind of resistence this Acausality would give him. I guess regular Causality Manipulation, since this kind of power require the manipulation of cause and effect which are elements that require time to happen, but I don't know for the rest.
I know a lot of characters with Acausality Type 4 that have it because of being outside time, so I believe it should be specified what kind of resistence this gives. I will try to give a look at it.

The Acausaility nerf thread was never accepted.

 

[ThanatosX]

The Acausaility nerf thread was never accepted.

Oh, ok. Than this can be a conversarion for a later date, if it will ever get accepted. For now I believe the Watcher would qualify for the regular resistences given by the Acausality Type 4.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

It should be fine to apply this then, right?

 

[Qawsedf234]

The accepted stuff yeah

 

[ThanatosX]

Great, in a few minutes I will have a bit of time to apply the revision. I only need the following two profiles to be opened:

• Infinity Ultron
• The Watcher

Doctor Strange Supreme's profile doesn't need to be opened since there is no additional ability to be added for him.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Great, in a few minutes I will have a bit of time to apply the revision. I only need the following two profiles to be opened:

• Infinity Ultron
• The Watcher

Doctor Strange Supreme's profile doesn't need to be opened since there is no additional ability to be added for him.

I have unlocked them