Possibly 6-A Upgrade for the Power Stone

[FuriousFieryFist]

Hello, I wanted to share my opinion on how we currently rate one of Thanos's feats with the power stone.

Currently we accept it has a variable rating based on this now broken link (For me at least) which was in reference to this scene in Guardians of the Galaxy. However, the aforementioned statement is missing some context. The full statement is as follows "The stone reacts to anything organic, the bigger the target the bigger the power surge" - Gamora. "All Ronin's got to do is touch the stone to the planet's surface and zap all plants, animals, Nova Corps, everything will die" - Quill
With this full statement we know know that 1. The stones variable power output is in reference to the presence of organic life and 2. That the power stone or more specifically the weapon the stone is slotted into has to make contact with organics/the surface of the planet in order for this process to start.
With the full picture we now have on how exactly the power stone's variable power works lets look at one of Thanos's most impressive feats, that being his ripping apart of Titan's moon. We see that neither one of the established conditions apply in this instance as 1. To our knowledge this moon has no living material of any kind and 2. Thanos is obviously nowhere near close enough to make contact with the moon in order to start the reaction. Since the variable power rating doesn't apply in this instance it's only fair to assume that the moon surface busting feat of Thanos's would apply to his normal AP with the power stone in the Infinity Gauntlet and not rated as a varies rating.

That would mean the new value Thanos with the power stone would scale to would be 2.44 petatons

I'm not sure if this would scale to Mark 50 Iron Man or not so I will leave it to the comments to decide if he should scale in any way. The main purpose of this is just to establish an actual value the power stone scales to in AP.

 

[Raincutter]

This statement was always trash. Taken at face value, it would mean that either Thor would have been vaporized by the Statesman explosion since the stone in that case is "reacting" to something much bigger than him, yet it still would have killed him if pressed against his human sized body

 

[darkphantom9805]

Obviously it was trash the power stones ap or attack was never limited by the size it would mean Thor was screaming in pain from human level attacks since he’s only the size of a human

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Obviously it was trash the power stones ap or attack was never limited by the size it would mean Thor was screaming in pain from human level attacks since he’s only the size of a human

It still does have a variable AP when used against organics, I'm not denying that, It's just that its not always applicable in every situation unless it meets the abovementioned conditions. It's still blatantly obvious that the power stone by itself with no organic amp is still powerful enough to compete with top tiers when used by the gauntlet and straight up one-shot when held directly. So the notion that all of it's power is based on size of an object is indeed wrong.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

bump

Is this too early?

 

[darkphantom9805]

Nah it’s just the mcu has been dead on this wiki recently there’s several crt going on that still haven’t finished because lack of people in the threads

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Nah it’s just the mcu has been dead on this wiki recently there’s several crt going on that still haven’t finished because lack of people in the threads

Oh, It seems I have posted it at a bad time then.
Is there anyway to know how many active threads are going on?

 

[darkphantom9805]

Is there anyway to know how many active threads are going on?

Idk the only ones I know going on rn are the tesseract one my Thor one and this one is I guess 3

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I agree with this.

Any input on possible scaling or should I leave that to another thread?

 

[Qawsedf234]

To our knowledge this moon has no living material of any kind and 2. Thanos is obviously nowhere near close enough to make contact with the moon in order to start the reaction. Since the variable power rating doesn't apply in this instance it's only fair to assume that the moon surface busting feat of Thanos's would apply to his normal AP with the power stone in the Infinity Gauntlet and not rated as a varies rating.

Thanos used the Space and Power stone for the feat, meaning he buffed the range and then threw the rock chunks at Titan.

Foe the thread the power stone even in the movie reacts to and explodes non-organic material and will spread through objects until contained. So it being a variable rating in general is still backed in my view. So I'm against a change.

Also tag your thread.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Thanos used the Space and Power stone for the feat, meaning he buffed the range and then threw the rock chunks at Titan.

I disagree
When Thanos uses each of the stones where given a color cue to indicate which stone is being used at that time.
Here is a video to reference what I'm talking about as well as a clearer view of the moon feat.
We see that in near every single instance of use in the movie the stones display their color when their used to do anything. Power shows purple, space shows blue, mind shows yellow, soul shows orange, time shows green and reality shows red. We also see this directly correlates to what they are affecting even in instances of combined efforts such as when Thanos uses the soul and power stone to beat Dr Strange; We can see the orange for soul being used on Strange's bodies and the power stone being used on his tendrils. With that in mind looking closer at the moon scene we see that only until after the purple power surge was done devastating the moon did the space stones color and abilities come into effect, leading us to believe that the power stone was the main factor responsible for the surface destruction. This is further backed up by the fact that we've seen earlier in the movie that this is something the powerstone is capable of doing by itself; Examples being directly after Thanos kills Loki we see him use it solo to blow up the large ship they were on in much the same manner that he destroys the moon. We see it once again in the fight the moon bust takes place when he uses it to deconstruct a ship that falls on him once again in the same manner we see it affect the moon. With that in mind I don't think it is a stretch by any means to assume the initial surface bust was done by the power stone and then the fragments were moved by the space stone which was the reasoning for him using two stones in the first place.

Foe the thread the power stone even in the movie reacts to and explodes non-organic material and will spread through objects until contained. So it being a variable rating in general is still backed in my view. So I'm against a change.

We have seen instances of it behaving like that yes, but we never have confirmation in any way that this is how the stone works. The one concrete statement we do have about how it works specifies that this is only for organics and in instances where the stone is in direct contact with them. Jumping to the conclusion that since it behaves a certain way when used that it must only work a certain way based on visuals alone seems faulty reasoning to me. We see the powerstone is capable of severely harming Thor yet not even affecting his entire head showing that the stones power is something that can be controlled and even at small AOE's can emit enough power to affect High 6-B characters lending credence to the fact that the stone does have some base level of power and is not entirely based on size. Lets also not forget that in fiction AOE is not necessarily indicative of AP so assuming that because we see the power stone affects an area much larger than what we're used to that it must behave in said way is not valid reasoning either, as the same could be said for the space stone as it displays a similar effect to the power stone when used in conjunction with the moon yet we wouldn't rate it as "Varies" based on that alone.

Also tag your thread.

I don't know how to

 

[Qawsedf234]

With that in mind looking closer at the moon scene we see that only until after the purple power surge was done devastating the moon did the space stones color and abilities come into effect, leading us to believe that the power stone was the main factor responsible for the surface destruction.

It was, I'm not saying that the spaces stone was used to destroy the surface. What I did say is that the space stone was used to increase the range of the power stone which fragmented the moon.

We have seen instances of it behaving like that yes, but we never have confirmation in any way that this is how the stone works.

Consistently we see that when the stone touches and object it expands out and then explodes after a certain point in the environment. With GotG and Avengers being consistent in that area.

So overall I would still say it's size dependent with the 5A feats always being a planetary scale showing rather than a focused attack. We also know that direct stone =/= IG stone. Since Thanos got a massive boost when he grabbed the Power Stone vs it being in the Gauntlet.

AOE is not necessarily indicative of AP so assuming that because we see the power stone

It's not, but we have a direct statement that it is and out evidence for it supports thst statement. With the stone having visibly bigger reactions the bigger the object in question is.

 

[Qawsedf234]

don't know how to

You click the tag icon under the thread title

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

It was, I'm not saying that the spaces stone was used to destroy the surface. What I did say is that the space stone was used to increase the range of the power stone which fragmented the moon.

Is there a statement or scan I'm unaware of? If not then that's simply theory instead of fact and can be up for debate. I've already written my reasoning as for why I believe that not to be the case above.

Consistently we see that when the stone touches and object it expands out and then explodes after a certain point in the environment. With GotG and Avengers being consistent in that area.

Yes, we also see this when it's not touching an object and is being used via the IG. It behaving a certain way is just indicative of how the power stone uses its control of "power". In this case they chose to display "power" as an explosion of energy which by itself doesn't mean anything.

So overall I would still say it's size dependent with the 5A feats always being a planetary scale showing rather than a focused attack. We also know that direct stone =/= IG stone. Since Thanos got a massive boost when he grabbed the Power Stone vs it being in the Gauntlet.

Yes, but every 5-A feat before was through direct contact and fulfilled the aforementioned conditions I laid out, only then did the surface wipe happen. Thanos's moon bust is the only outlier that does not fulfill either condition. A normal non-country sized blast from the powerstone can still harm High 6-B characters which in my opinion is evidence against the Power stone's AP being completely based on size.

It's not, but we have a direct statement that it is and out evidence for it supports thst statement. With the stone having visibly bigger reactions the bigger the object in question is.

The direct statement specifies organics plain and simple. And the visibly bigger reactions argument falls back into the AOE fallacy that would apply to quite literally every infinity stone if we decided to judge by that rule. It's clear that Thanos is putting different amounts of effort into each use of the powerstone with him visibly struggling with the 6-A feat, something that shouldn't really apply if it was simply an effect of the powerstones use on planetoids.

You click the tag icon under the thread title

OK, I'll add a few

 

[darkphantom9805]

What I did say is that the space stone was used to increase the range of the power stone which fragmented the moon.

Never happened we have a direct wog that he used the power stone to break the moon and space to throw that’s it

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I'm still uncertain of how to add tags

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I'm still uncertain of how to add tags

Nevermind I figured it out

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is there a statement or scan I'm unaware of? If not then that's simply theory instead of fact and can be up for debate. I've already written my reasoning as for why I believe that not to be the case above.

The power stone has always needed to make contact with the surface and the purple pulse on the planet was triggered in conjunction with the space stone.

The feat itself was performed by the power stone, its just that the range was increase by the space stone.

Yes, but every 5-A feat before was through direct contact and fulfilled the aforementioned conditions I laid out, only then did the surface wipe happen. Thanos's moon bust is the only outlier that does not fulfill either condition. A normal non-country sized blast from the powerstone can still harm High 6-B characters which in my opinion is evidence against the Power stone's AP being completely based on size.

It's AP is based on the target, with more durable people being able to handle the energy better. But it still gets a bigger reaction based on how large the area is.

And the visibly bigger reactions argument falls back into the AOE fallacy that would apply to quite literally every infinity stone if we decided to judge by that rule.

I don't see how it is. We see it get bigger and the reactions get strong with size. It's not an AoE fallacy to go with what's stated.

But I'm not going to change your mind, so just put me with disagree and we'll wait on other mods to comment.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

The power stone has always needed to make contact with the surface and the purple pulse on the planet was triggered in conjunction with the space stone.

The feat itself was performed by the power stone, its just that the range was increase by the space stone.

This is proven untrue as earlier in the movie Thanos destroys the ship without making any contact with it. Once again this is only your theory of what happened.

It's AP is based on the target, with more durable people being able to handle the energy better. But it still gets a bigger reaction based on how large the area is.

When was that established? When is it ever stated that the power surge is stronger based on the opponent it's used on? Sounds like a convenient explanation as to why Thanos is able to hurt High 6-B characters with this stone that supposedly varies its power based on size.

It's not an AoE fallacy to go with what's stated.

But it's not stated, thats the thing.

But I'm not going to change your mind, so just put me with disagree and we'll wait on other mods to comment.

Thats fair

 

[Excellence616]

Same as Qawsed

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Bump

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Bump

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Bump