MCU Doctor Strange minor addition + Comics Scarlet witch MASSIVE revamp

[Hykuu]

That's not what I am referring to, the point is that, whenever they describe HER power, it's made pretty clear she can cause another House of M, or that she never used chaos magic to her full potential.

That would just put the "at most 4-A" into question, also, them being serious doesn't actually inherently correlate to the point, the point is that if SHE is serious, not if they are. I have already posted scans in the other thread

 

[Ayewale]

She can cause another House of M, as confirmed by herself, but she says she needs 'a lot of casting time' and 'an immense source of power', which is more or less her saying 'I can't do this by myself unless amped by something like the Life Force'.

And in the other thread, I debunked your scans with a quote from 2018.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Ayewale makes sense.

 

[Hykuu]

"- She did state all she needs is some rest and a "source of power" (Referring to Chaos Magic) in order to cause another House of M"

You can't definitively/Objectively claim she is referring to the Lifeforce when we know that there is a clear difference between a normal and pissed off witch using chaos magic.

No, you didn't, lmfao. The point of my comment was that I ADDRESSED the scans, which is why I quoted sandman, incase you didn't catch on.

I just wanna point out, literally the first issue of childrens crusade talks about how she can undo all the effects of the House of M- And Chaos Magic as I said should be 2-A anyway

 

[Ayewale]

Even if she's not referring to the Life-Force (which she probably isn't, I'll give you that), she should be referring to something about as powerful as the Life Force amp.

 

[Hykuu]

Yeah, like, Idk, full power Chaos Magic?

 

[Ayewale]

She didn't say 'I need a lot of time and go at full power', she said 'I need an immense source of magic'. Wording is very, very important.

 

[Hykuu]

Yeah, an immense source of magic, like Chaos Magic, lol. Why do you think she needed to rest aswell? Also, afaik, Chaos Magic isn't her only source of power, not referring to external ones, but rather sources of magic. So she could still be referring to that

 

[Ayewale]

Dude, she was not referring to her own power, she was referring to an outside source of magic. She already has Chaos magic, she wouldn't need an immense source of what she already has in full.

 

[Antvasima]

Given that the Scarlet Witch profile page says that she was empowered by the Life Force during House of M, what should this wording be changed to instead?

 

[Hykuu]

@Ayewale The point still stands my guy, why did she need rest? and what source did the Red Skull have external to her = to the Lifeforce? Chaos Magic is 2-A and isn't always used at full capability, as mentioned earlier.

@Ant the wording is correct, the point is that she doesn't need it to be 2-A

 

[Ayewale]

The Red Skull had no source, she was the one saying the quote. Also no, she isn't 2-A normally, she had to be amped by the Life Force, and she NEEDS it to be 2-A.

 

[Hykuu]

Okay, then how was she going to recreate the event? How was she going to undo all the effects, and why did she need rest if all she did was an external source? Since rest amps one's own power, and we do literally know Chaos Magic is itself 2-A, and we know she uses it

 

[Ayewale]

She didn't know how, but she still said it was possible. And Chaos Magic by itself ain't 2-A. It's only 2-A with a Life Force amp.

She went all-out in her fight versus Thor and the X-men, all of which are at most 4-B.

 

[Hykuu]

No, I am referring to the statement is Avengers: Children's Crusade Issue 1, not any of her statements. But yeah, she did know, she literally stated what she needed and she had an idea of what to do.

Chaos Magic is literally Chthon's Magic, is consistently shown to be beyond the pay-grade of the likes of Strange, and has its own fair share of 2-A feats (shown in the other thread)

When was it stated she went all out and all out in relation to what? She has varying power levels, hence why I suggested a different Key for "Full Power/Full Potential"

 

[Ayewale]

It was never directly stated she was going all-out, but she was fighting for her dear life on both occasions. As for it's share of 2-A feats, all of those are outliers. Chthon =/= Wanda, as show in Secret Empire where Chthon overpowered Wanda and took over her mind-Chthon magic is not Wanda magic.

A different key for 'full power' is irrelevant. At full-power, she's just higher on the 4-B totem pole by an unspecified amount, and maybe she's 4-A.

 

[Hykuu]

Fighting for her "life" doesn't mean she is at full potential, dude.

Yeah, I never claimed they are equal, just that she uses magic, which by itself is literally Chthon's power, and Chthon has his fair share of 2-A feats and sacling.

Yes, Chthon Magic is Wanda Magic, that's what Chaos Magic is?

why did ya ignore the full potential part? Anyways, repeating what we already are arguing about really isn't a point

 

[Ayewale]

Fighting for her life does mean she's at least fighting at full power, and you said the key should be 'full power/potential'.

And no, Chthon Magic isn't all Wanda magic, I already told ya why.

And it is a point because it's rountinely debunking everything you're saying/

 

[Hykuu]

I can still hold back and fight for my life, that is actually quite a common trope in different fights across fictions, hell, if has even happened in some thor comics. By the way, as I said, that evidence is definitely not concrete enough to claim she is fighting for her life, it's an iffy abductive argument at best.

All the evidence is in the thread and I have a rebuttal, just saying "no look at my point" which I ADDRESSED isn't a response, sorry.

Yeah, repeating your proposals is the best debunk of all time, right?

 

[Ayewale]

She was not only fighting for her lfie, she was fighting to get to Pietro, her brother. I should not have to tell you about how close she is to Quicksilver, and the predicament that she was in-so she was most certainly fighting at full power.

And, yes, repeating myself is a good rebuttal because you haven't brought up anything that hasn't been debunked.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Ayewale. We should preferably close this thread and permanently drop the subject.

 

[Hykuu]

y

 

[Ayewale]

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for being reasonable.