Massive Nasuverse Revisions

[TheUnshakableOne]

Wait? Blasting? For some reason I was under the assumption she like kicked it.

Yup, she blasted it with noble phantasm which shoots an energy projection that is the concept of Venus.

 

[Chariot190]

Wouldnt the country calc be the far higher. Island level casually, country with effort.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

all tier 6 too???

Though with Lancer Artoria's NP can't we add something like "Possibly far higher with the true name release of her noble phantasm"

It'd be downscaled, as they are NPs which are mostly more powerful than Servant Physicals.

But aren't True Name release just the activation of the Noble Phantasm?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

all tier 6 too???

Though with Lancer Artoria's NP can't we add something like "Possibly far higher with the true name release of her noble phantasm"

It'd be downscaled, as they are NPs which are mostly more powerful than Servant Physicals.
But aren't True Name release just the activation of the Noble Phantasm?

I edited my comment that was quoted

But my reasoning is because of the surface layer of a planet being fastened or held down by the noble phantasm

 

[Chariot190]

I dont think we'd have to downscale the casual shots and caladbolg (although we need to halve the caladbolg feat, it was shared), mostly because Gawain and Herc are both physically comparable and tanked both. Although there aint exactly many servants that are around the strength of herc of all things given it takes mana burst saber to just block his strikes. So it'd be a case of major backscaling from herc and gawain in the end.

UpgradeMan, when it says layer, it isnt talking about the continental crust or anything, layers in fate are metaphysical things, the layer of earth isnt something that's physical.

 

[John985]

w8, base Gawain is equal to herc? Dont know about that, but Sun boosted Gawain is equal to STR A+ servant. I kinda did make a thread about it, but it didnt go anywhere.

 

[Chariot190]

Nobody said gawan was eqal to herc? Only that the scaling would come from those two.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am pretty sure Chariot meant Sun Boosted Gawain, yes.

And no, like I said before, A+ Strength Servants are for sure not normally equal to Gawain under Sun Boost. The nature of Extella doesn't help matters. This is a dude that has B+ strength in his NORMAL state, then gets his power boosted by 3 times, and is still among the most skilled of the Round Table. Lancelot with Arondight can only stalemate the dude while boosted, while he wrecks his ass while not, that's the level of difference.

 

[John985]

I dont think we'd have to downscale the casual shots and caladbolg (although we need to halve the caladbolg feat, it was shared), mostly because Gawain and Herc are both physically comparable and tanked both. Although there aint exactly many servants that are around the strength of herc of all things given it takes mana burst saber to just block his strikes. So it'd be a case of major backscaling from herc and gawain in the end.

Well you said this.

 

[Chariot190]

Although if true, that'd put A+ servants at like 373.04899014717 gigatons if base gawain is only like 130 gigatons due to lance.

 

[Chariot190]

Oh when I said that they were comparable I was actually reffering to the calcs that they scale off being comparable, both being triple digit gigaton. My bad.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If only there was a better way to get a good rating for weakened Excalibur... the Angra calc was just too perfect to be true for long.

 

[Chariot190]

Didnt Bedi match storm king's np with excalibur briefly?

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Didnt Bedi match storm king's np with excalibur briefly?

From what I see, he just kinda shines it, revealing it as Excalibur, and shocking the Lion King.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The "+" signs are multiplicative aren't they? So of he's B+ in strength then he'd by like B++++ in sub boost


With B+ > A by a small amount.

B++ > A+?????


Nasu wrote a rule about it

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Depends what exactly he matched, whether the full NP or just one of her blasts. Also, calcing the energy needed to carve the border carved by Arash's NP is also a fun idea, since Arash needed to use his NP to match ONE of the Lion King's long range blasts. I think we already have a calc for the crater, but it could provide a nice back up calc.

That said, Airgetlam is still weaker than Excalibur.

 

[Chariot190]

Ok so the Jerusalem feat got accepted which tells me the mini craters should be accepted as well, I did literally the same thing so those are good to go.

Uruk hasnt been accepted yet (apparently we should use soil value if it isnt vaporization? Although given uruk's foundation and the area being rocky plus soil doesnt extend 2km deep I dont think we actually need to do so). Opinions on this?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The "+" signs are multiplicative aren't they? So of he's B+ in strength then he'd by like B++++ in sub boost


With B+ > A by a small amount.

B++ > A+?????


Nasu wrote a rule about it

We don't know how or when they are activated, but + signs are meant to be a boost that lasts a while rather than being permanent, so a B rank is still below A rank but can surpass it for a moment.

The problem is that a boost of 3 times would be like Gawain had a natural B++ STR at all times rather than a temporary boost. If B is 40 and A is 50, A+ is 100 and B++ is 120. This is without adding his natural + to strength (if we do decide to treat it as a temporary boost), making it even higher. If B+ is the base value multiplied by 3 while sun boosted, you don't use 40 but 80, making it even higher still. A+ STR characters being comparable makes no sense to me.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Chariot Agreed with the soil thing. Mainly because we see the ascending wall of the hole and all of it looks like rock all the way up.

 

[Chariot190]

Wouldnt that only be less then a 20% difference? That's actually kinda cmparable, not equal, but comparable.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Remember that is if we decide to forget the extra + Gawain naturally has in strength, and the fact a value of 20 is like the difference between A rank and C rank or B rank and D rank. So just Cu vs EMIYA without Emiya's skill and Mind's Eye to make up for the power difference.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If Numeral applies to the + modifier, it should still be a possible increase like before so he would be 120 normally but 240 sometimes.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That too. I still feel the + value is treated as permanent at times and would love that to be a little more talked about or cleared up.

 

[John985]

Dont you mean 160? Because for 240, you kinda multiply it by 6 to reach that number.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I am talking about if Numeral applied to both the B and the +. + just means another of the letter so it is possibly 6 times the normal B.

 

[John985]

Not really sure on that. The difference is too big to make any sense. And Karna is not the type to lie. And he can also know about the oppenent because of his Discernment of the Poor.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Discenrment of the poor means no lies or deceivings get past him, not reading the power of the characters. And Extalla scaling in general is a damn mess because the game is a free for all most of the time.

 

[John985]

Yeah, but I dont really think it can reach 240, only 160 at most.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

It would make sense though, Gawain is treated like some unsourmantable, stupidly difficult to break wall. Neither Caligula with his Endurance B+, or Lu Bu with his A+, or even Babbage with his B++ is treated quite like this. And again, Sun Boosted Gawain and Normal Gawain is the difference between Lancelot having to stalemate and Lancelot utterly flooring him, despite having B+ Endurance even in his normal form, and he has no KnK or Armor of Fafnir, so such a big difference makes a lot of sense.

 

[John985]

Why would it make any sense? When it said that he is on par to Sun Boosted Gawain so the parameters shouldn't reach that number it should only be between 120 to 160.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Which again makes literally no freaking sense. And it comes from the very same game where Saber beats Gilgamesh and Iskander in her route then Gilgamesh easily beats her in his route. I will never agree with using Extella as any measure of scaling.

 

[John985]

I dont think it increase the initial value, but just make his parameters to B++++. And Saber on her route was boosted by the Moon Cell, that's one of the reason why she beat them.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

This boost I see mentioned, but I never see literally any scans of it. And she is summoned on all routes by the Moon Cell as a high Servant, just like Iskander and Jeanne, but the Moon Cell leaves her to get screwed in one route but not in another? That's incredibly dumb, no offence. Not to mention this would make normal Saber comparable to Sun Boosted Gawain, by being physically comparable to Herk, who is Lu Bu's equal.

There's just so much wrong with this assumption that it can't hold up in my eyes just because of one single scene in a game with wonky scaling.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Scaling in Extra? I thought that was just a myth

 

[Chariot190]

So like, who's stronger, Herc or Gawain? I'm getting mixed messages here.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

As far as I care, Gawain is stronger physically than A+ Servants, and most Servants in general. If it bears repeating, he's treated as an unsourmantable wall that you can never really overpower or even hurt properly, it is a plot point and why King Hassan goes after him. Lu Bu is never treated like this, Babbage who is above Lu Bu in stats is never treated like this, and Lancelot who is above Saber in everything but NP and Mana when at full power can only stalemate Sunboost Gawain, the same Saber that is physically comparable to Heracles.

 

[Chariot190]

Isnt Saber only comparable to Herc's casual strikes while using mana burst and struggles to do even that?

 

[John985]

Its much better for other people to decide on that.

The one that fought herc is fate saber who is really weak. The only thing she can do is parry.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Fate Saber has B Str tho?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

So we're moving past the calcs and going to scaling???


Also, what's the conseus on Gawain so far??? I'm at work atm and. Lot of comments happened lol