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Massive MCU revision

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MCU IS INCONSISTENT.

We're having the same exact problem with DC and Marvel Comics currently where explosion and KE calcs give characters insanely high stats which are far higher than what they are potrayed as.

Also, a character like Cap who is barely able to bend metal railing, gets to match a SHIELD pirate like Batroc and get somehwat decently damaged by a chitauri grenade suddenly gets to equally fight Iron Man. Nothing is wrong with that?

Age of Ultron legit doesn't make sense, even ignoring plot. Also, being 8-C doesn't suddenly give Cap enough power to kick around Ultron, since Ultron still one shots
 
I still strongly agree with Zark, and would appreciate if you drop the issue Spino, as we will otherwise end up with extremely unreliable profile pages.

@Zark

I would appreciate your help with figuring out how to properly scale both the MCU and regular Marvel Comics character profiles.
 
MCU is inconsistent in some ways, but not in scaling ways. In the comics Cap sometimes defeats Iron Man while gets his ass stomped in other cases. There is no such problem in the MCU.

Marvel and DC uses explosion feats and kE feats that do not contradict our guidelines. Do you need me to list how many KE andexplosion feats are used on their profiles.
 
They are still massive inconsistencies to their overall power level portrayals. If we are talking pure destructive energy capacity, Spider-Man's by far greatest feat was supporting part of the Daily Bugle skyscraper, and that is just 9-A+.
 
Antvasima said:
I still strongly agree with Zark, and would appreciate if you drop the issue Spino, as we will otherwise end up with extremely unreliable profile pages.

@Zark

I would appreciate your help with figuring out how to properly scale both the MCU and regular Marvel Comics character profiles.
Click to expand...
It's not like the majority agrees with Zark though. There are 4 to 5 people on each side. Just bc u agree with Zark does not mean we all should.
 
Antvasima said:
They are still massive inconsistencies to their overall power level portrayals. If we are talking pure destructive energy capacity, Spider-Man's by far greatest feat was supporting part of the Daily Bugle skyscraper, and that is just 9-A+.
Click to expand...
No offence Ant, but it is basically just you questioning 8A for the comics. Our wiki uses Attack Potency, not Destructive Capacity.
 
He is factually correct about that the MCU is extremely inconsistent, and Marvel Comics ridiculously so, and about that it would result in massively bloated tiers if everybody scale to everybody they have ever fought, regardless of their practical scale of feats.
 
Of course you think he is factually correct, just like me and people who agree with me think I am. Thing is, in such a controversial case, just bc u agree with Zark doesn't mean we all should.
 
@Antvasima

I'm not well versed enough in Marvel Comics enough to scale them properly, sorry.

Only thing I can help for the MCU is that Quicksilver's speed KE calcs aren't the most sensible to scale, as they similiarly affect Hawkeye, Captain America and Thor, so they're wildly inconsistent. Add to that the other 9-A feat in the MCU is Spider-Man at his peak, MCU 9-As aren't exactly sensible, and the 9-B tier makes more sense for them.

I recommend all 9-As scaling to them being reverted to 9-B, with Cap and all those who directly scale to him being on the higher end of it. This accounts for the "everything damages everything" since 9-B is an vastly expansive tier.

Spider-Man should have 9-A durability but 9-B Tier.

That's all the changes I propose
 
@KLOL Unfortunately I have asked all of them, but so far opinions seem to be rather polarized. This can be easily seen by me ans Zark's posts both getting 3 to 4 kudos.
 
Zark2099 said:
Spider-Man should have 9-A durability but 9-B Tier.

That's all the changes I propose
Click to expand...
Only one problem: Cap could damage him and even defeated him (As Tony puts it), and Spidey can somewhat fight on par with those capable of harming him. AKA his dura would scale to his AP.
 
Also, "MCU is inconsistent but not in scaling"

Quicksilver, Thanos and Crossbones laugh in outliers.

Cap has an 8-A shield, far higher than anything Tony has, so him being able to fight Iron Man is accounted for, just him trading blows isn't. And I think that is fair enough, since Iron Man being at his regular self is a controversial aspect to debate.
 
Well, somebody should ask Matthew Schroeder, and all of the staff members listed in the Marvel Cinematic Universe page to comment here. I am too busy to continue to argue.
 
Quicksilver harms Hawkeye, knocks back Captain America and only made Thor flinch. Perfectly consistent. Crossbones is inconsistent as hell, I acknowledge that. Thanos tends to hold back and basically lolstomps everyone.

Cap and Bucky physically fought Iron Man, and Iron Man is not stupid even when enraged, he would have just killed Bucky and knocked out Cap to get him out of his way if he was that stronger.
 
Only one problem: Cap could damage him and even defeated him (As Tony puts it), and Spidey can somewhat fight on par with those capable of harming him. AKA his dura would scale to his AP.

Cap never knocked him out, neither did any other character for that matter and Tony's statements can potentially be him downplaying Spider-Man to discourage him.

Though now that I think about him, it should be 9-B possibly higher instead. The Dura feat in question has him being potentially ripped apart, which is logically higher than him just getting knocked out or hurt.
 
Zark2099 said:
Cap never knocked him out, neither did any other character for that matter and Tony's statements can potentially be him downplaying Spider-Man to discourage him.

Though now that I think about him, it should be 9-B possibly higher instead. The Dura feat in question has him being potentially ripped apart, which is logically higher than him just getting knocked out or hurt.
Click to expand...
"Potentially" is the key-word (Which also has no evidence, combined with the fact that Tony could also be worried about Peter's safety in general due to his inexperience), and I never said anything about Cap knocking Spidey out, only that Spider-Man couldn't do much to even harm Cap and got beat in the combat game instead
 
Also, I think we should play it safe.

Calcs > Polarizing Scaling because we have solid grounds for the tier, instead of potentially outlierish feats.

If it doesn't resolve, we can always tier similiarly to DCEU and write it of as Varies, Tier A to B. That isn't neat but it does the job fine
 
Spidey is above Winter Soldier and Captain America by a mile, everyone ignores the punch stopping feat.
 
Let's see...

Pietro's feats:

Bumrushed Hawkeye some 2-3 meters away

Flung? Cap some 2 meters in the air

Bumrushed Cap several meters away

Smashed Ultron bots that can crawl out of the road

Blatantly shattered an Ultron bot with a punch to the chest

All of these are while running, where he's protected by his aura thing that also seems to protect anyone he has contact with for more than a single hit (e.g. a punch), considering anyone he's ever pushed or carried doesn't die from brain mush.

Anyways, these are some things that may be calcable and that doesn't require to calc the energy his speed imparts (which, iirc, is what his profile has), but the energy required by him to do these to others. Thoughts?
 
So with Gemmy's proposal, Quicksilver KE feats should be replaced by the amount of energy required for him to perform these feats in general, (similar to Captain America pushing Ultron calc)?

I think that makes sense, and will likely result in more consistent feats I'd imagine.
 
What about the peak human lifting strength revision? Characters were supposed to get At least Class 1 lifting strength
 
I'll just do a very quick calc of shattering an Ultron bot, but I'll also high-ball it as much as possible.

The volume of the human body is around 71000 cubic centimeters according to this. Ultron bots clearly aren't fully metal (I'd estimate more well over half, though) and have multiple streamlined or hollow sections.

The energy for fragmentation of steel is 208 j/cc, violent fragmentation is 568.5 j/cc.

71000 x 208 = 14768000 J

Fragmentation = 0.00352963671 Tons of TNT (Wall level+)

71000 x 568.5 = 40363500 J

Violent Fragmentation = 0.00964710803 Tons of TNT (Small Building level)

But, as I said, they are hollow. I also find it highly unlikely that he shattered the entire thing rather than just the torso section. The calc would still be Wall level either way.

Edit: According to this, the volume can also be 80000. The new results would be slightly higher (like 12%).
 
The blue thing around his body is the aura. It's never mentioned but it makes sense considering he ferries people around without killing them from sudden whiplash.

EDIT:

Oh, and he didn't turn into chunks of gore when he took several bullets from the quinjet. Those things would do a nasty one on a normal person.
 
I'm iffy on time dilation fisticuffs but if it works, it works. I can't calc for the life of me.
 
Aren't Iron Man suits made of titanium though? Ultron should be made of similar materials Maybe you could use that instead for fragmentation calcs.
 
Not necessarily. They're drones. They're meant to be subpar to the main body in exchange for cheaper construction cost.
 
I would blame Whedon for making Ultron so weak, even in his vibranium form, but I digress. The fact that they are made of titanium steel doesn't mean much in terms of durability in this verse.
 
So how should we handle this?
 
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