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Massive MCU revision

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AguilaR101 said:
As I said before, Iron Man's feat is 8-A through continous acceleration, the only way Cap would've been hit by 8-A force is if Iron Man had crashed into him after accelerating for a good distance, this never happened during their fight in CW as it took place in an extremely cramped location.
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He did use his Unibeam against Bucky, but does that count as part of his Low 7-C rating?
 
If someon calcs the vaporization of Bucky's arm, and it yields Low 7-C, then why not. That said, Bucky's arm at least can damage Iron Man's armor so...
 
Did we agree on who Corvus Glaive scales to? Do we scale him to Cap or Vision? I'm thinking Vision as he did fight him twice without any ill effects even if Vision was weakened.
 
If Vision was weakened then he can't scale to his standard rating. Considering Vision could barely stand he should scale to Captain America.

As stated above we shouldn't scale Captain America to Deathlok. If anything I think we should remove any inconsistent cross scaling and get rid of the Class 50 strength rating for the Super Soldiers.
 
BP stopped gigantic armored rhinos dead in their tracks. Wonder if that would wield something.
 
The average male white rhino weighs 2.3 metric tons. Even with armor I don't imagine that it'll get higher than Class 5.
 
I am uncertain about scaling the Marvel movies from Agents of SHIELD, as they seem to ignore the TV series.
 
Didn't Corvus fight Vision off-screen while he wasn't injured? He used physical attacks, iirc.
 
My main issue with it is that not only does Deathlok have a much better in-universe formula, his bulldozer feat is magnitudes better than every other Captain America feat. In every movie his maximum has been in the Class 5 to 10 range and nothing he's done comes close to pushing a locked bulldozer dozens of yards.
 
ByAsura said:
Didn't Corvus fight Vision off-screen while he wasn't injured? He used physical attacks, iirc.
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Vision was sneak attacked before the fight began. So at no point did Corvus fight a 100% Vision.
 
If we want to close the distance between Cap and Iron Man, it results in BW and every other 9-B damaging an 8-C or 8-A, not to mention all the Guardians getting these insane ratings as well since Star-Lord restrained Spider-Man

Cap already has a tier 8 with the shield anyways, and Bucky's arm should be approximately the same but below with tanking and slightly damaging Cap's shield, so I don't understand what's the problem with those items scaling to Iron Man only.

Also, we're using in-verse statement here to scale Cap to 8-C, from a character none of the scaleable characters in the MCU have interacted with. Even if it is canon, it is still an iffy feat based on a statement which contradicts everything
 
Saying that Cap's shield helps him fight Tier 8s is just stupid. He would have got instantly murdered.

It's canon, and it doesn't contradict that much stuff.
 
ByAsura said:
I agree it should be disregarded. Not only does Cap have feats around the 5-10 range, but people of similar strength do, like when Spider-Man lifted most of a Jet-bridge with considerable effort.
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A jet bridge is 27 000 kg, which is Class 50. Cap also lifted a steel beam of Winter Soldier, and assuming 8*1*0.5 dimensions it would weigh over 30 tonnes. It is also likely that Cap had pushed the bulldozer before, or SHIELD agents cannot compare his record to others.

All of Cap's Class 5 and 10 feats are casual, except the PIS helicopter feat.
 
@Spino Somebody said it was 7 - <11.5 tons, but it was a random reddit. I've tried to find the exact model, as it seems a lot smaller than regular Jet Bridges I've seen, but with little success.

@Qawsedf This was long into the fight though. I'm fairly sure that would be much of an advantage after it already happens.
 
It does contradicts the calcs you did, also no, it wouldn't be, Cap is far weaker than his Shield, and the only real damage did in the fight with Iron Man was with Cap's shield and Bucky's arm, and as much as you might wanna scale it, fights in Civil War is definitely not Characters in full force, except for Bucky in the prison and Crossbones, there are about as much arguments in support to it than against it.
 
@Zark2099 Cap was still able to tank Iron Man's punches and stuff. Iron Man and Cap were both holding back towards each other, while Iron Man definitely wanted to kill Bucky. And even if he didn't want to harm Cap, he could have just knocked him out to get him out of the way. A 1000x gap makes zero sense here.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Black Widow literally did nothing to Winter Soldier.
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Black Widow did as much as Captain America's and Winter Soldier's non item attacks did to Iron Man. Restraining and damaging an 8-C enough to make them feel pain and flinch is definetely higher than 9-B.

If you want to up Cap based on "everything must scale" logic, every character would be approximately the same tier
 
@ByAsura http://members.optusnet.com.au/cx346/Aerobridge.htm

Captain America was able to hold his own against Iron Man and Ultron for a prolonged period of time. Bucky physically forced Iron Man's arm upwards, and pinned him against a wall. Cap pummelled Iron Man and FRIDAY said he can't beat Cap hand-to-hand. They are consistently near the level of Iron Man.

Meanwhile let's look at the Black Widow vs Winter Soldier fight. Sharon Carter and her ran up and manage to knock back Bucky a bit by surprise, but Bucky simply throws Sharon aside, and when Black Widow leaps on his back he easily grabs her, and despite Black Widow kept on punching his head, nothing happened, and he easily pushed Black Widow down and tried to strangle her, and had to have T'Challa save her.
 
I agree with Zark about the scaling everybody to everybody they have ever fought problem. It wouldn't stop at Captain America.
 
Staggering someone does not make you scale. Fighting for like 10 minutes, not getting easily laid down, pushing someone against a wall and pummelling them, does.
 
Antvasima said:
I agree with Zark about the scaling everybody to everybody they have ever fought problem. It wouldn't stop at Captain America.
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I disagree. The movies are not nearly as inconsistent as the comics. Captain America was one-shot by Thanos and did nothing to Loki, so he doesn't scale to them. However, he was able to fight Ultron and Iron Man for an extremely long period of time. The movie quite clearly portrays they are nearly comparable imo.

And if we're going to use Black Widow staggering Winter Soldier as an "anti-feat", we might as well as use Captain America staggering Thanos, or Quicksilver staggering Thor as an "anti-feat" for the High 6-Bs. Literally everyone can stagger someone in the MCU. In the real world, Zark would be right. In fiction though, staggering means nothing.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
@Zark2099 Cap was still able to tank Iron Man's punches and stuff. Iron Man and Cap were both holding back towards each other, while Iron Man definitely wanted to kill Bucky. And even if he didn't want to harm Cap, he could have just knocked him out to get him out of the way. A 1000x gap makes zero sense here.
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A 1000x gap between BW and Cap doesn't make sense either, in-verse logic or otherwise. At bare minimum Cap is <10 times Black Widow, since Winter Soldier has 8 dudes supposedly weaker than her restraining him somewhat decently.

"Iron Man's armor is weaker due to Sokovia Accords", "Iron Man was subconsciously obliged to not do so" etc., etc., I can assume anything if I want, doesn't mean I'm going to start scaling shit

Also, no he wouldn't be knocking him out, because "fight needs to happen". PIS and CIS is still a thing.


Also also, stop downplaying the 9-Bs, Black Widow can still damage Winter Soldier and Crossbones, so there isn't a 1000 times gap
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Staggering someone does not make you scale. Fighting for like 10 minutes, not getting easily laid down, pushing someone against a wall and pummelling them, does.
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Yes it does when you wat a 1000x distance between them, and hate to break it to ya', barely any fights in the MCU are 10 minutes in Ensemble-type movies. 30 seconds is like an hour there
 
Iron Man was clearly trying to kill Bucky, and get Cap out of the way. Making these dumb excuses is merely stupid. Iron Man has no reason to make an armour weaker than Cap, and IIRC they haven't started regulating Iron Man yet, they gave him a chance to capture Cap.

It could be, but handwaving it as "PIS" is stupid imo. The movie portrayed multiple times that Cap is roughly comparable.

Moreover, literally everyone can stagger each other in the MCU. Heck Star-Lord and Captain America can stagger Thanos. So should I accuse Matthew of "downplaying" the 9-As and putting them so much weaker than Thanos, and Thanos should be downgraded? Of course not. Staggering someone doesn't mean you scale. Fighting someone for like 10 minutes without being defeated does.
 
Yes it does when you wat a 1000x distance between them, and hate to break it to ya', barely any fights in the MCU are 10 minutes in Ensemble-type movies. 30 seconds is like an hour there

So Thanos should be downgraded to the level of Captain America and Star-Lord now? Staggering means little in the MCU.
 
I disagree. The movies are not nearly as inconsistent as the comics.

Not saying much when comics are almost 70 years old

However, he was able to fight Ultron and Iron Man for an extremely long period of time.

Civil War fights shouldn't be used to compare unless characters exclusively state so.

And if we're going to use Black Widow staggering Winter Soldier as an "anti-feat", we might as well as use Captain America staggering Thanos, or Quicksilver staggering Thor as an "anti-feat" for the High 6-Bs.

Cap didn't stagger Thanos, but suprised him, and Quicksilver physics are inconsistent as you yourself have shown over and over. Thanks for debunking 9-As for me

Literally everyone can stagger someone in the MCU. In the real world, Zark would be right. In fiction though, staggering means nothing.

Then Cap staggering Iron Man shouldn't be counted. Widow ******* fought Crossbones, not just stagger him, and decently restrained Bucky, more than ******* Iron Man atleast
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Iron Man was clearly trying to kill Bucky, and get Cap out of the way. Making these dumb excuses is merely stupid. Iron Man has no reason to make an armour weaker than Cap, and IIRC they haven't started regulating Iron Man yet, they gave him a chance to capture Cap.

It could be, but handwaving it as "PIS" is stupid imo. The movie portrayed multiple times that Cap is roughly comparable.
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What do you want to scale Cap to? Iron Man clearly isn't solid enough for 20 damn reasons, Ultron is insanely inconsistent, and Thanos ***** up everything.

Also, comic book scaling is super ******* effective here then, since "everyone can stagger everyone", so Cap only has his own feats to scale by. As I've said before, you're replacing previous grounded inconsistencies by new wankish inconsistencies
 
>Not saying much when comics are almost 70 years old

Exactly, which is why comics are inconsistent, as they have so many different writers. The movies are only a few directors though.

>However, he was able to fight Ultron and Iron Man for an extremely long period of time.

Ultron isn't in Civil War.

>And if we're going to use Black Widow staggering Winter Soldier as an "anti-feat", we might as well as use Captain America staggering Thanos, or Quicksilver staggering Thor as an "anti-feat" for the High 6-Bs.

Captain America hit Thanos in the face and Thanos flinched. Star-Lord staggered Thanos. Spider-Man staggered THanos. Means nothing. Quicksilver staggered Thor, and he shouldn't scale as he did nothing to Thor.

>Then Cap staggering Iron Man shouldn't be counted. Widow ******* fought Crossbones, not just stagger him, and decently restrained Bucky, more than ******* Iron Man atleast

Black Widow did nothing to Winter Soldier at all, he just pinned her down after he dealed with Sharon and nearly killed her.

Captain America and Bucky didn't just stagger Iron Man, they fought him for like 10 minutes, pinning him against a wall, as well as Bucky overpowering his arm upwards and blocking all attempts to shoot him dead. Crossbones is inconsistent as hell, he was only a bit stronger than Falcon in the Winter Soldier, but fought shieldless Cap in Civil War.
 
Ultron isn't inconsistent as hell, he only fought Iron Man and Captain America (not counting his super weak form at the beginning and his OP vibranium form at the end).

Captain America should nearly be comparable to Iron Man, which is why I think High 8-C and 8-A would be far more reasonable gap, as Aguila explained that Cap wouldn't straight-up scale to 8-A. After all, Deathlok was weakened when he survived that explosion (Aiden accepted the calc btw).
 
Qawsedf234 said:
This calc, even if accepted, doesn't change the large scaling issues with Captain America and other Super Soldiers. Not to mention despite one throwaway line saying Deathlok is weaker, if his feats are better then he's just better. His formula is even an improved version of what Cap was given in-universe.
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I strongly agree with Zark. The Marvel movie matchups do not make any sense in terms of consistent power levels, much like the comics they are based on.
 
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