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Massive MCU revision

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No? The enhanced characters are far stronger than peak humans. On the other hand 8-A characters and enhanced characters are not portrayed as thousands of times different.

Quicksilver was injured and exhausted when saving Hawkeye, which explains why he can only go at Mach 5 while his top speed is MHS. For the punch calc, read our Kinetic Energy Feats page. KE can be used in some cases. And the ferry calc is Spider-Man not being split in half by the falling ferry.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Its because AoS and Spino suggesting that Cap needs to be Tier 8 to survive against Iron Man tier enemies.
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PIS and inconsistent scaling is still a thing. Also, Cap has an 8-A shield and that is the most major blow in the entire fight anyways. Rest can be chalked upto "Cool action needed"
 
PIS and inconsistent scaling is still a thing. Also, Cap has an 8-A shield and that is the most major blow in the entire fight anyways. Rest can be chalked upto "Cool action needed"

Using "inconsistency" to justify a consistent portrayal is just stupid. I can say the same about Tier 6 Thor, or say that 9-B Cap is inconsistent that can be explained by "blah blah blah". They are certainly not portrayed as thousands of times weaker than 8-A characters.

The helicopter feat is already PIS as it would be somewhere around low-end Wall level. The other 9-B feats are all somewhat casual.
 
AoS isn't secondary canon. Is more canon than any of the other tv shows.

S.H.I.E.L.D. returned to the public eye in season 4-5 and the world knows S.H.I.E.L.D. is back as an agency. In Infinity War post-credit scene we see that Nick and Hill are back working as S.H.I.E.L.D. agents with the car having the S.H.I.E.L.D. logo. That tells you that is the same continuity. Besides movie actors appearing in the show, and movies at the same time. (Example bald guy that mentioned "Steven Strange" was with Coulson before he was called for the boat scene from the begining of Winter Soldier.) Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Lady Sif, Thor (cameo clip of Dark World, footage of helicarriers going down on the triskellion, etc...)
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
No? The enhanced characters are far stronger than peak humans. On the other hand 8-A characters and enhanced characters are not portrayed as thousands of times different.

Quicksilver was injured and exhausted when saving Hawkeye, which explains why he can only go at Mach 5 while his top speed is MHS. For the punch calc, read our Kinetic Energy Feats page. KE can be used in some cases. And the ferry calc is Spider-Man not being split in half by the falling ferry.
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If enhanced characters are far stronger than peak humans, then Hawkeye gets 9-A for tanking a push and a punch by Quicksilver.

Spider-Man was going to be ripped apart if Iron Man didn't show up, so he has at the complete best 9-A dura for being ripped in half, getting knocked out and dying takes alot less than that. Civil War was "tee hee ha ha" fighting with no stakes to it, so don't know why Spider-Man would scale to anyone.

Also, you're using a KE calc of speed based character to justify every single character having 9-A even though every other calc shows them as lesser. I'm puzzled as to how no one sees anything wrong with this
 
AppleLord said:
AoS isn't secondary canon.
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It is secondary canon by virtue of not being the movies. Not to discredit anything, I just thought I should mention that aspect. Like if a movie and AoS contradict you'd take the movies over it.
 
Also, no, there is literally no direct connection to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D and MCU, as no movie references that series.

SHIELD car thing isn't a solid reference as there are literally 20 other ways you can assume they got access to them (No one bothered to remove branding from the car, SHIELD somewhat got back together in AoU, Fury stole the car from old cache). I'm not making a Moon Knight page because the bald dude vaguely mentioned him.


Also, no it isn't consistent at all for him to 8-C, because that means ******* Crossbones and a bunch of dudes held a 8-C in an elevator, and Peter can dab on the criminals and they'd die, as well as Black Widow and Falcon literally can't damage Spider-Man, which is BS. You're replacing previous, downplayed but grounded scaling with insane, calcless wank
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Because the KE calc is...valid? And the other feats are casual except the PIS helicopter scene?
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Captain America kicking Ultron away in a fight is ...casual?

Spider-Man lifting a building from him to save his life is casual?

I don't think you know what casual is... these are regular feats. 9-A is the absolute peak for them. Casual means "not even trying", so 9-A Ultron?
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Captain America completely rekt all the dudes in the elevator, it's just that there were too many to deal with at first. Black Widow and Falcon are far weaker than Spider-Man indeed.
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You don't understand, 9-B+ is far weaker. 8-C is light punch and death. Captain America and Spider-Man can oneshot every peak human with a single punch. That elevator fight would've lasted 10 seconds with 8-C. It's >88 times the difference
 
@Zark2099 Cap shouldn't be that weaker than Ultron seriously, if Ultron was 8-A and Cap was 9-A he would be instantly murdered. The Spider-Man building calc has many flaws and was never accepted. The Ultron-throwing calc also fails to account that Cap would have to throw him faster than Ultron reacting and flying away.

"Captain America and Spider-Man can oneshot every peak human with a single punch". Yes indeed.
 
I don't see a note of AoS been secondary canon in the MCU page. The show is a spin-off. An example of secondary canon would be the DBS anime. The movies are primary canon writen by the original author while the show is written by the animation studio to adapt the original notes from the author. The manga is more canon than the anime since is written by Toyotaro and Toriyama. Even the new anime will be base on the manga version.


AoS is a spin-off of the movies not secondary canon.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Saying AoS is secondary canon would be like saying the Incredible Hulk is secondary canon because later films did not mention it.
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What do you mean? Multiple later movies mention the 08 Hulk movie. On the other hand no movie mentions AoS.

AoS is a spin-off of the movies not secondary canon.

They're on a lower canon rung just due to not being the primary source material.
 
Okay, so right now, there is potentially 1394 times the AP and dura difference between Cap and BW. You guys want it to be 1452 times instead of less than that insane number.

Just for clarity, Black Widow can damage Winter Soldier and Crossbones (not majorly but still enough to count) who are directly comparable to Captain America, 8-C Black Widow? Which means 8-C Hawkeye (consistent, he tanked 8-C push from Quicksliver) etc., etc.,

This contradicts BP getting decently hurt by Zemo's explosion which is 9-A

If you still see no problem, then Calc stacking says hello. Every single character is scaled by a dumbass poorly written movie where the writers didn't think about KE, and this ***** up logic, as well as every other calc.

Also, Spino, suddenly wall level calcs are invalid, but you still haven't removed them from the profiles, have you?

Maybe, just maybe, all those other calcs that are listing 9-A are poor as well. The intent behind this thread is a clear violation of Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics, as this is ignoring consistent feats and instead focus on peak feats. Fiction is inconsistent suprisingly.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Saying AoS is secondary canon would be like saying the Incredible Hulk is secondary canon because later films did not mention it.
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General Ross says hello, so does Bruce Banner in the first Avengers. Coulson only said bye. We shouldn't be changing tiers based on car stickers. No way they are 8-anything

My proposed changes are that every character in the MCU rated 9-A should be High 9-B based on their regular feats (which Spino insists as casual), with Spider-Man (Marvel Cinematic Universe) and Quicksilver (Marvel Cinematic Universe) rated 9-A at peak.

That should make things more consistent as BW damaging Bucky and Crossbones, and Falcon damaging would be more consistent.

Also, as MCU has no internal ranking system like animes and some films, so as to give slight context as to how high someone is to the other, I think our Marvel and DC Comics powerscaling rules apply to it as well.
 
Cap got stomped by Loki and Ultron but Spino is still suggesting we scale him up.
 
Widow didn't really get stomped by Bucky, she held her own and was able to get off a few good punches, before being overpowered.
 
Black Widow locked Bucky and attacked him hard enough, and didn't get stomped by Crossbones, infact she was able to damage him, making him flinch and the only reason she "got stomped" by him is because of Crossbones' pain resistance.

If she is 9-B fighting a 9-A(which you guys wanna make 8-C) she can't do that, because of the insane gap.

Also, "getting stomped" is still possible in 9-B itself, but atleast in the level shown in movies. There is literally one weird KE calc which doesn't make sense that's giving every single MCU 9-A this tier, while all the other calcs list them as high 9-B
 
She got overpowered, yes, but she was able to hurt the super soldiers and take blows from them, which she is consistently able to do.
 
They're not on par. Wall level literally has a 1394 times gap between the low end and high end. Plenty of room getting stomped but still damage.

Also, as I've said before, the scaling in AoU is mental. Literally Cap will be 8-A by scaling to Ultron.
 
BTW, I love how Quicksilver is used as the basis for the 9-A KE calc, but literally on the page it states:

The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series. EX: Quicksilver (Marvel Comics)'s calculated speed cannot be used to derive kinetic energy as it heavily contradicts his established power levels.
Well guess what? Even though this is a completely different Quicksilver, we're still having this same exact problem, this KE feat contradicting every other feat established in the MCU of being Wall-level.

Even in-verse Quicksilver is inconsistent with how he affects other characters, as he's able to generate the same amount of energy to damage Captain America and push away Hawkeye. I legit don't understand why people are enforcing them to have higher tiers.

9-A calcs aren't any better than the 9-B calcs in terms of scaling, and if the 9-B calcs are wrong, then someone should recalculate them. I'm not trying to purposely downgrade them, it's just that there's no logical calc for them to be 9-A

I can't argue anymore, this is getting slightly repetitive. If anyone agrees, they can argue further but right now I've just lost interest
 
Well, I agree, but don't have the time to argue.
 
I think I'll wait for Cap's next crazy move in Endgame, the movie where he will most likely die in. Better to go out with a bang.
 
Natse said:
I think I'll wait for Cap's next crazy move in Endgame, the movie where he will most likely die in. Better to go out with a bang.
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Likely not, scaling Avengers to Thanos is weird, so unless he has a new key, I won't bet on him getting significant upgrades
 
If we they are 9 B there is also an insane gap between them and Iron Man which makes zero sense at all.

Quicksilver's KE in the comics cannot be used as it isn't an attack and breaks SoL. Cap being 9 B would mean he is even weaker than Rocket Raccoon.
 
It's either Possibly 8-A, or if that doesn't work, there is High 8-C, maybe even 8-B going off the Deathlok Explosion thing, since its a Weakened Mike that survived the Explosion, he could be a good deal weaker then he was at his Peak, then Steve is significantly stronger then Peak Mike, it depends on the gap between High 8-C and 8-B though
 
Deathloks feat is iffy, we need distance and surface area for him to scale, nevermind we actually need people to be convinced something that injures you that much can actually be scaled to your dura.

As I said before, Iron Man's feat is 8-A through continous acceleration, the only way Cap would've been hit by 8-A force is if Iron Man had crashed into him after accelerating for a good distance, this never happened during their fight in CW as it took place in an extremely cramped location.
 
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