- 19,810
- 16,228
His 9-A tier makes more sense than his 8-C stone wall one or fully 8-C one.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Massive MCU revision Part 2
- 11,805
- 7,367
So Cap should be 9-B? Same as Daredevil, Black Widow and the rest of those guys? Makes total sense, let's toss out logic for him not punching a building in every scene he's in.
And yet he can severely damage Ultron and Iron Man. Arsenal point again, he's physically comparable but no way near them in versatility and abilities.
Star-Lord held onto 8-C Spider-Man, that's why? Ha. Quill has feats on that level, that's why he's 9-A. Literally no Guardian is on the same tier. They don't even scale to each other...
Anyways, this is getting annoying, so cya
And yet he can severely damage Ultron and Iron Man. Arsenal point again, he's physically comparable but no way near them in versatility and abilities.
Star-Lord held onto 8-C Spider-Man, that's why? Ha. Quill has feats on that level, that's why he's 9-A. Literally no Guardian is on the same tier. They don't even scale to each other...
Anyways, this is getting annoying, so cya
- 13,565
- 5,728
7-A Spidey? ovo
- 19,810
- 16,228
He also shouldn't be rated thousands of times higher than them due to recursive durability scaling that far outstrips any of his AP featsZark2099 said:
Yes, with his shield. His physical blows couldn't do anything to them.Zark2099 said:
Which is why Gamora, Drax, Rocket, and Groot aren't rated at 9-A or anythingZark2099 said:
- 2,294
- 2,729
Black Widow didn't do much to Winter Soldier
- 13,565
- 5,728
^She did nothing to him. He was just walking while she hammered away at his head numerous times.
- 19,810
- 16,228
That same scene had Falcon survive multiple hits from his bionic arm,AnonymousBlank said:
EDIT: Was wrong, no bionic arm hits on Tony. Though an armor-less BP took a hit and got up fine.
- 13,565
- 5,728
BP is a super soldier level guy anyway tho. We see him trade blows and being equal to the likes of Cap and Bucky multiple times.
- 19,810
- 16,228
So then we're just upgrading everyone to 8-C physically then. So why aren't we upgrading Falcon, Tony Stark, and Black Widow to 8-C? Because they can all withstand hits from Super Soldiers without dying and without being one shot.
- 13,565
- 5,728
Because Bucky casually KO'd/two shot them.
- 2,294
- 2,729
Cap would be getting a High 6-B key anyways
- 19,810
- 16,228
Be he didn't KO either Tony, Falcon, and Black Widow in one hit. And they can't be just 10-A/9-B or else a single punch would've misted them. They have to be durable enough to not be killed.
- 11,805
- 7,367
@Revan Laha
Don't bet on it. "9-B" to "High 6-B" will make us look insane.
@Qawsed
No. Movies don't work like that. For PLOT to happen, they ignore internal scaling just to have a cool action sequence. That's why Cap can stop Thanos, and Loki get smacked around by Iron Man.
Have you actually ever read a comic book? Literally anyone can stop anyone. A ******* squirrel can take out Doom. We're 20 movies and 6 TV shows in. Contradictions happen.
Our Tiering system isn't exactly all-encompassing and perfect, so AP and Durability gaps shouldn't be taken so literally in a franchise like this. As long as no internal logic is broken, characters being a certain tier is acceptable.
Don't bet on it. "9-B" to "High 6-B" will make us look insane.
@Qawsed
No. Movies don't work like that. For PLOT to happen, they ignore internal scaling just to have a cool action sequence. That's why Cap can stop Thanos, and Loki get smacked around by Iron Man.
Have you actually ever read a comic book? Literally anyone can stop anyone. A ******* squirrel can take out Doom. We're 20 movies and 6 TV shows in. Contradictions happen.
Our Tiering system isn't exactly all-encompassing and perfect, so AP and Durability gaps shouldn't be taken so literally in a franchise like this. As long as no internal logic is broken, characters being a certain tier is acceptable.
- 129
- 16
Do better against Thanos than the previous armor
does that leak include the entire movie or only in the scrapyard fight?
does that leak include the entire movie or only in the scrapyard fight?
- 19,810
- 16,228
Have you actually ever read a comic book?
I've read plenty and even if I hadn't that doesn't justify improper scaling.
As long as no internal logic is broken
If we upgrade Captain America to 8-C then the majority of the universe gets bumped to 8-C and it becomes an even larger issue that the non-enhanced humans are only 9-B. By this point its probably better to just wait until Endgame to get everything sorted out.
I've read plenty and even if I hadn't that doesn't justify improper scaling.
As long as no internal logic is broken
If we upgrade Captain America to 8-C then the majority of the universe gets bumped to 8-C and it becomes an even larger issue that the non-enhanced humans are only 9-B. By this point its probably better to just wait until Endgame to get everything sorted out.
- 11,805
- 7,367
Name who gets upgraded. All of them likely make sense I assume.
I literally listed by direct scaling who gets affected by this before. If there's any peak human who get upgraded by this legitimately, i.e. Actually decently damaging another character, not by "they didn't get annhiliated" I'll stop arguing.
It does. Captain America in the movies is always shown on the same level as Iron Man.
Hell, if "Black Widow and gang are able to take a hit from WS" then why don't we downgrade Thanos and Loki for not oneshotting Cap? It makes as much sense
I literally listed by direct scaling who gets affected by this before. If there's any peak human who get upgraded by this legitimately, i.e. Actually decently damaging another character, not by "they didn't get annhiliated" I'll stop arguing.
It does. Captain America in the movies is always shown on the same level as Iron Man.
Hell, if "Black Widow and gang are able to take a hit from WS" then why don't we downgrade Thanos and Loki for not oneshotting Cap? It makes as much sense
- 19,810
- 16,228
I named [them all previously]. Cap's 8-C feats are based on cross scaling to a AoS character, a KE calc, and scaling from people vastly stronger than he is.Zark2099 said:
If people really want this then I can't do anything, but to me its a pretty bad idea to make everyone 8-C based on recursive durability scaling that outstrips any AP feat they have.
No, they're not going to be upgraded, Bucky at his weakest (9-A) should already be strong enough to one-shot them, but that doesn't happen, you're literally the only one who's saying they'll be upgraded to 8-C.
(Assuming you're talking to me) Multiple people talked about how in Endgame Cap does something that would scale his AP up to 8-C. Which creates all of these problems in my view.
- 11,805
- 7,367
I'm saying in the scenario he is proposed to be, it isn't that radical a concept for them (Black Panther, Killmonger, WS and Cap) to be upgraded.
Qawsedf is further arguing to downgrade Cap to 9-B since he apparently doesn't have enough 9-A feats as well.
Actually, I'm sorry, I'm slightly flustered and overworked at the moment.
Qawsedf is further arguing to downgrade Cap to 9-B since he apparently doesn't have enough 9-A feats as well.
Actually, I'm sorry, I'm slightly flustered and overworked at the moment.
- 19,810
- 16,228
Qawsedf is further arguing to downgrade Cap to 9-B
I'm not. I just criticized your statement about using the "generally potrayed tier" by mentioning that Cap's generally portrayed tier is 9-B. So you shouldn't use that line of thinking to justify 8-C.
I'm not. I just criticized your statement about using the "generally potrayed tier" by mentioning that Cap's generally portrayed tier is 9-B. So you shouldn't use that line of thinking to justify 8-C.
- 11,805
- 7,367
You kind of are implying as such... also, I used that term for like, once. Seems nitpicky. I'm justifying it by calcs, since there is no KE calc and its pretty direct scaling IMO.
And I disagree. He's far consistently potrayed at 8-C. That's opinionated it seems, since there is no quantifiable way of measuring which feats are outliers and which aren't except for "I feel like it"
Anyone else wanna agree or disagree I'm fine. Bye. For real
And I disagree. He's far consistently potrayed at 8-C. That's opinionated it seems, since there is no quantifiable way of measuring which feats are outliers and which aren't except for "I feel like it"
Anyone else wanna agree or disagree I'm fine. Bye. For real
- 9,507
- 8,424
@Qawsedf What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter if Cap or Bucky were 9-A or 8-C, with both tiers they are already strong enough to one-shot characters like Black Widow, yet that doesn't happen in the movies, that's why Zark thinks you are trying to downgrade them to 9-B, has it crossed your mind to think "Black Widow taking hits from Bucky is an outlier"? Because she has never scaled from Bucky in the first place, and I don't know why you think she'd scale now just because Bucky is going to be upgraded to 8-C.
- 19,810
- 16,228
has it crossed your mind to think "Black Widow taking hits from Bucky is an outlier"?
Yes, like how it crossed my mind "Captain America being Building level is an outlier"
Yes, like how it crossed my mind "Captain America being Building level is an outlier"
- 19,810
- 16,228
It's because his 8-C AP rating will be based on durability scaling and it's massively better than any of his AP feats. It'll also upscale a punch of other people to be fully 8-C who also have much lower showings than that rating.
- 9,507
- 8,424
And what? We do that all the time, attack potency and destructive power is not the same thing, it's not like I actually think Cap could destroy buildings, it's just that he can hurt people with 8-C durability, saying this is an outlier for that reason it's a massive double standard.
>It'll also upscale a punch of other people
Who are those people again? I hope it's not the 9-B characters, because they never scaled from Cap in the first place.
>It'll also upscale a punch of other people
Who are those people again? I hope it's not the 9-B characters, because they never scaled from Cap in the first place.
- 19,810
- 16,228
BP, WS, Crossbones, Golden Jaguar, the Guardians, Spider-Man, Vulture, Shocker, and probably others I'm forgetting will be scaled up from this despite struggling with far less.
> saying this is an outlier for that reason it's a massive double standard.
If saying its an outlier for being far being far above his actual showings is a double standard then I have nothing to add. Scale them up, I just want to note my objection to such a move.
> saying this is an outlier for that reason it's a massive double standard.
If saying its an outlier for being far being far above his actual showings is a double standard then I have nothing to add. Scale them up, I just want to note my objection to such a move.
- 5,141
- 290
"Far above his actual showings" yeah, cause Loki destroys town everyday by dying.
And what's wrong with, say, 8-C Spider-Man? He staggered Giant-Man, blocked Bucky's Bionic Arm and injured Cap (who, as I say, couod even be rated 8-C+ tbh, but that besides the point, he stills 8-C regardless)
And what's wrong with, say, 8-C Spider-Man? He staggered Giant-Man, blocked Bucky's Bionic Arm and injured Cap (who, as I say, couod even be rated 8-C+ tbh, but that besides the point, he stills 8-C regardless)
- 19,810
- 16,228
> Cap harming 8-C characters counts as actual showings according to our standards you know.
I know, but I don't like it when large scaling chains are one step away from being circular scaling.
I know, but I don't like it when large scaling chains are one step away from being circular scaling.
- 11,805
- 7,367
Not to be offensive, but you've already shown your opposition to this. In 3 different threads. And each time you bring up the same points with a bit of flavour text added.
Current 9-A can result in circular scaling as well, and that's a management issue rather than a logical one. People don't ignore high tier changes because they take too much time and effort either
Current 9-A can result in circular scaling as well, and that's a management issue rather than a logical one. People don't ignore high tier changes because they take too much time and effort either
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #392
I'm late, but staggering someone or being chucked around effortlessly does not mean you scale.
- 5,141
- 290
Still, at least means that the AP of the character that staggered you isn't to far from your durabilitySpinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Also, most of the characters that fought Cap dealt the same if not more damage that QS's 8-C punch (which did basically nothing to Cap)
So, shouldn't they scale to it? (Also, isn't 8 gigawatts like 1.o tons? That makes Mark 3 IM like High 8-C)
- 32,811
- 38,020
High 8-C starts at 2 tons.
Also, characters should scale if they can draw blood from each other or hit hard enough to get them reeling in pain. Or if they suffer any bruising or black eyes or shit like that.
So yeah, no way in hell do the normal humans even come anywhere near close to being Super Soldier level or BP level.
Also, characters should scale if they can draw blood from each other or hit hard enough to get them reeling in pain. Or if they suffer any bruising or black eyes or shit like that.
So yeah, no way in hell do the normal humans even come anywhere near close to being Super Soldier level or BP level.
- 13,565
- 5,728
Spoilers dude
Edit that shit out
Edit that shit out
- 5,141
- 290
@KLOL506
1) I know, but if Mark 2 is 1.9 tons, and Tony made 2.66x times jump in power from Mark 1 to 2, Mark 3 being 2 tons makes sense
2) In a sense, yeah. But my argument still applies: If he received almost 0 damage from a 8-C attack, and other characters deal the same if not more damage, they should scale at least that.
3) I NEVER implied that. I only meant that for, say, Bucky Spidey Crossbones etc
1) I know, but if Mark 2 is 1.9 tons, and Tony made 2.66x times jump in power from Mark 1 to 2, Mark 3 being 2 tons makes sense
2) In a sense, yeah. But my argument still applies: If he received almost 0 damage from a 8-C attack, and other characters deal the same if not more damage, they should scale at least that.
3) I NEVER implied that. I only meant that for, say, Bucky Spidey Crossbones etc
- 11,098
- 4,321
- Thread starter
- #399
@AidenBrooks999 I'm not sure about that. If a baby punched me and a 3-year old kid punched me I would both barely feel anything, doesn't mean the baby is as strong as the 3-year old kid.
- 5,141
- 290
But the 3 yo would hit harder, and you would feel something strongerSpinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Again, take it this way: QS's punch is the base for attack that can affect Cap, but not seriously injure him. Everyone (within reason) that made him feel pain and visibly injure him, scale to that (Like I said, Bucky Spidey Crossbones BP etc)
