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His 9-A tier makes more sense than his 8-C stone wall one or fully 8-C one.
 
So Cap should be 9-B? Same as Daredevil, Black Widow and the rest of those guys? Makes total sense, let's toss out logic for him not punching a building in every scene he's in.

And yet he can severely damage Ultron and Iron Man. Arsenal point again, he's physically comparable but no way near them in versatility and abilities.

Star-Lord held onto 8-C Spider-Man, that's why? Ha. Quill has feats on that level, that's why he's 9-A. Literally no Guardian is on the same tier. They don't even scale to each other...

Anyways, this is getting annoying, so cya
 
Zark2099 said:
So Cap should be 9-B? Same as Daredevil, Black Widow and the rest of those guys? Makes total sense, let's toss out logic for him not punching a building in every scene he's in.
He also shouldn't be rated thousands of times higher than them due to recursive durability scaling that far outstrips any of his AP feats

Zark2099 said:
And yet he can severely damage Ultron and Iron Man.
Yes, with his shield. His physical blows couldn't do anything to them.

Zark2099 said:
Literally no Guardian is on the same tier.
Which is why Gamora, Drax, Rocket, and Groot aren't rated at 9-A or anything
 
AnonymousBlank said:
^She did nothing to him. He was just walking while she hammered away at his head numerous times.
That same scene had Falcon survive multiple hits from his bionic arm, Tony Stark (without armor) survive a hit from his bionic arm, and there were multiple instances where he grunted from BW's kick.

EDIT: Was wrong, no bionic arm hits on Tony. Though an armor-less BP took a hit and got up fine.
 
So then we're just upgrading everyone to 8-C physically then. So why aren't we upgrading Falcon, Tony Stark, and Black Widow to 8-C? Because they can all withstand hits from Super Soldiers without dying and without being one shot.
 
Be he didn't KO either Tony, Falcon, and Black Widow in one hit. And they can't be just 10-A/9-B or else a single punch would've misted them. They have to be durable enough to not be killed.
 
@Revan Laha

Don't bet on it. "9-B" to "High 6-B" will make us look insane.

@Qawsed

No. Movies don't work like that. For PLOT to happen, they ignore internal scaling just to have a cool action sequence. That's why Cap can stop Thanos, and Loki get smacked around by Iron Man.

Have you actually ever read a comic book? Literally anyone can stop anyone. A ******* squirrel can take out Doom. We're 20 movies and 6 TV shows in. Contradictions happen.

Our Tiering system isn't exactly all-encompassing and perfect, so AP and Durability gaps shouldn't be taken so literally in a franchise like this. As long as no internal logic is broken, characters being a certain tier is acceptable.
 
Have you actually ever read a comic book?

I've read plenty and even if I hadn't that doesn't justify improper scaling.

As long as no internal logic is broken

If we upgrade Captain America to 8-C then the majority of the universe gets bumped to 8-C and it becomes an even larger issue that the non-enhanced humans are only 9-B. By this point its probably better to just wait until Endgame to get everything sorted out.
 
Name who gets upgraded. All of them likely make sense I assume.

I literally listed by direct scaling who gets affected by this before. If there's any peak human who get upgraded by this legitimately, i.e. Actually decently damaging another character, not by "they didn't get annhiliated" I'll stop arguing.

It does. Captain America in the movies is always shown on the same level as Iron Man.

Hell, if "Black Widow and gang are able to take a hit from WS" then why don't we downgrade Thanos and Loki for not oneshotting Cap? It makes as much sense
 
No, they're not going to be upgraded, Bucky at his weakest (9-A) should already be strong enough to one-shot them, but that doesn't happen, you're literally the only one who's saying they'll be upgraded to 8-C.
 
Zark2099 said:
Name who gets upgraded. All of them likely make sense I assume.
I named [them all previously]. Cap's 8-C feats are based on cross scaling to a AoS character, a KE calc, and scaling from people vastly stronger than he is.

If people really want this then I can't do anything, but to me its a pretty bad idea to make everyone 8-C based on recursive durability scaling that outstrips any AP feat they have.

No, they're not going to be upgraded, Bucky at his weakest (9-A) should already be strong enough to one-shot them, but that doesn't happen, you're literally the only one who's saying they'll be upgraded to 8-C.

(Assuming you're talking to me) Multiple people talked about how in Endgame Cap does something that would scale his AP up to 8-C. Which creates all of these problems in my view.
 
I'm saying in the scenario he is proposed to be, it isn't that radical a concept for them (Black Panther, Killmonger, WS and Cap) to be upgraded.

Qawsedf is further arguing to downgrade Cap to 9-B since he apparently doesn't have enough 9-A feats as well.

Actually, I'm sorry, I'm slightly flustered and overworked at the moment.
 
Qawsedf is further arguing to downgrade Cap to 9-B

I'm not. I just criticized your statement about using the "generally potrayed tier" by mentioning that Cap's generally portrayed tier is 9-B. So you shouldn't use that line of thinking to justify 8-C.
 
You kind of are implying as such... also, I used that term for like, once. Seems nitpicky. I'm justifying it by calcs, since there is no KE calc and its pretty direct scaling IMO.

And I disagree. He's far consistently potrayed at 8-C. That's opinionated it seems, since there is no quantifiable way of measuring which feats are outliers and which aren't except for "I feel like it"

Anyone else wanna agree or disagree I'm fine. Bye. For real
 
@Qawsedf What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter if Cap or Bucky were 9-A or 8-C, with both tiers they are already strong enough to one-shot characters like Black Widow, yet that doesn't happen in the movies, that's why Zark thinks you are trying to downgrade them to 9-B, has it crossed your mind to think "Black Widow taking hits from Bucky is an outlier"? Because she has never scaled from Bucky in the first place, and I don't know why you think she'd scale now just because Bucky is going to be upgraded to 8-C.
 
has it crossed your mind to think "Black Widow taking hits from Bucky is an outlier"?

Yes, like how it crossed my mind "Captain America being Building level is an outlier"
 
And on what basis do you say that? It's because he can't one-shot 9-B characters? I've already explained why this logic is completely flawed.
 
It's because his 8-C AP rating will be based on durability scaling and it's massively better than any of his AP feats. It'll also upscale a punch of other people to be fully 8-C who also have much lower showings than that rating.
 
And what? We do that all the time, attack potency and destructive power is not the same thing, it's not like I actually think Cap could destroy buildings, it's just that he can hurt people with 8-C durability, saying this is an outlier for that reason it's a massive double standard.

>It'll also upscale a punch of other people

Who are those people again? I hope it's not the 9-B characters, because they never scaled from Cap in the first place.
 
BP, WS, Crossbones, Golden Jaguar, the Guardians, Spider-Man, Vulture, Shocker, and probably others I'm forgetting will be scaled up from this despite struggling with far less.

> saying this is an outlier for that reason it's a massive double standard.

If saying its an outlier for being far being far above his actual showings is a double standard then I have nothing to add. Scale them up, I just want to note my objection to such a move.
 
I have no problem with those characters scaling, Crossbones and Shocker would be 8-C only with the gauntlets so they should be fine.

Cap harming 8-C characters counts as actual showings according to our standards you know.
 
"Far above his actual showings" yeah, cause Loki destroys town everyday by dying.


And what's wrong with, say, 8-C Spider-Man? He staggered Giant-Man, blocked Bucky's Bionic Arm and injured Cap (who, as I say, couod even be rated 8-C+ tbh, but that besides the point, he stills 8-C regardless)
 
> Cap harming 8-C characters counts as actual showings according to our standards you know.

I know, but I don't like it when large scaling chains are one step away from being circular scaling.
 
Not to be offensive, but you've already shown your opposition to this. In 3 different threads. And each time you bring up the same points with a bit of flavour text added.

Current 9-A can result in circular scaling as well, and that's a management issue rather than a logical one. People don't ignore high tier changes because they take too much time and effort either
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I'm late, but staggering someone or being chucked around effortlessly does not mean you scale.
Still, at least means that the AP of the character that staggered you isn't to far from your durability


Also, most of the characters that fought Cap dealt the same if not more damage that QS's 8-C punch (which did basically nothing to Cap)


So, shouldn't they scale to it? (Also, isn't 8 gigawatts like 1.o tons? That makes Mark 3 IM like High 8-C)
 
High 8-C starts at 2 tons.

Also, characters should scale if they can draw blood from each other or hit hard enough to get them reeling in pain. Or if they suffer any bruising or black eyes or shit like that.

So yeah, no way in hell do the normal humans even come anywhere near close to being Super Soldier level or BP level.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Spoilers dude
Edit that shit out
We already got spoilers from a few hours back and we have an Endgame thread with spoilers but 'kay.

Just used it for scaling reasons.
 
@KLOL506

1) I know, but if Mark 2 is 1.9 tons, and Tony made 2.66x times jump in power from Mark 1 to 2, Mark 3 being 2 tons makes sense

2) In a sense, yeah. But my argument still applies: If he received almost 0 damage from a 8-C attack, and other characters deal the same if not more damage, they should scale at least that.


3) I NEVER implied that. I only meant that for, say, Bucky Spidey Crossbones etc
 
Oooooooooooooh, I thought you meant that 8 gigawatts= 1.0 tons. NVM, it's 1.9.

We should probably remake his missile feat calc.
 
@AidenBrooks999 I'm not sure about that. If a baby punched me and a 3-year old kid punched me I would both barely feel anything, doesn't mean the baby is as strong as the 3-year old kid.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
@AidenBrooks999 I'm not sure about that. If a baby punched me and a 3-year old kid punched me I would both barely feel anything, doesn't mean the baby is as strong as the 3-year old kid.
But the 3 yo would hit harder, and you would feel something stronger

Again, take it this way: QS's punch is the base for attack that can affect Cap, but not seriously injure him. Everyone (within reason) that made him feel pain and visibly injure him, scale to that (Like I said, Bucky Spidey Crossbones BP etc)
 
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