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MASHLE: Magic and Muscles Discussion Thread

Honestly, still wondering if the calcs I found could be used in any way or when some of these changes can get to Mash's profile?
It can't since those calcs from that site use funny sub-atomic destruction shit. The only calcs we need are Innocent Zero stopping the moon (already calculated), and Mash pushing the continent.
 
It can't since those calcs from that site use funny sub-atomic destruction shit. The only calcs we need are Innocent Zero stopping the moon (already calculated), and Mash pushing the continent.
Would the continent pushing part of those calcs be usable, at least? I mean, after handling the spacing and what not
 
I mean, his title as "creator god" would pretty much put him above most character's as has been discussed here. Also said here, was that he has some sort of statement comparing him to the GoD? It's a bit hard to think about when the fanbook is untranslated and you have to remember what's been said by others'. Realistically his base should be 5-C for probably scaling above Doom, though he was weaker than Wahlberg, so his base goes like "Doom < base Adam < summons Wahlberg".

Oh but yeah, I'll help out if I can.
Creator God argument is kind of weak. I think it's better to downscale him from destroying the world statement.

Currently EE is considered as AP so can you get the AP for Adam. How much value it will yield for erasing the earth?
I think Adam is at the same level or above Doom, but I don't think I should use the summoning argument.

IZ didn't need to summon anyone, he can beat Wahlberg without even getting hit with each attack being almost deadly.

He didn't summon Adam to help him fight or that he needed reinforcements or anything like that, he summoned him more for a personal issue with Wahlberg, to show that he can do this and maybe to test his old friend.
I heard you that's why I'm talking about downscaling..
 
So I don't know if you plan to compare Adam's summon with IZ, but I wouldn't do that.

In addition to IZ being much more powerful and with a wand that perfected his spells, the spells have different names. Adam's spells are called Dark (ダーク) and IZ's are called Darkness (ダークネス). They even use the "same spell" as that of the snakes and while Adam's is called Dark Snake, IZ's is called Darkness Snake.


I don't think you'll agree with this one, but I think he was already on the same page against Wahlberg. Such different wands are usually Master Canes and I don't think they ever said that he is a user of one.
Adam spells clearly has EE property and IZ spells lacks that.

I thought about Thirds IZ used may be Adam's but it may not be the case
 
It is? Well, anytime we see Darkness strike something it leaves behind only steam, but that's Innocent Zero's Version of it. I guess Adam's dark magic just sort of erases anything it touches.
Heres the fanbooks description of Adams dark magic

史上最高のヒーローが固有したのは、意外にも闇魔法である。 闇の神の加護を受け放つ漆黒の力は、 あらゆる物質を影で覆いつくし、 一瞬のうちに飲み込んでしまう。アダムはこの最強魔法を自在に操り、わずかな時間で世界中の戦いを終結へと導いたのである。

The greatest hero in history surprisingly possessed dark magic. Blessed by the god of darkness, he wielded a pitch-black power that could envelop any substance (the kanji 物質 could translate to matter or substance) in shadow and consume it in an instant. Adam skillfully controlled this ultimate magic, leading to the end of battles worldwide in a very short time.
 
Heres the fanbooks description of Adams dark magic

史上最高のヒーローが固有したのは、意外にも闇魔法である。 闇の神の加護を受け放つ漆黒の力は、 あらゆる物質を影で覆いつくし、 一瞬のうちに飲み込んでしまう。アダムはこの最強魔法を自在に操り、わずかな時間で世界中の戦いを終結へと導いたのである。

The greatest hero in history surprisingly possessed dark magic. Blessed by the god of darkness, he wielded a pitch-black power that could envelop any substance (the kanji 物質 could translate to matter or substance) in shadow and consume it in an instant. Adam skillfully controlled this ultimate magic, leading to the end of battles worldwide in a very short time.
There was another statement
 
Heres the fanbooks description of Adams dark magic

史上最高のヒーローが固有したのは、意外にも闇魔法である。 闇の神の加護を受け放つ漆黒の力は、 あらゆる物質を影で覆いつくし、 一瞬のうちに飲み込んでしまう。アダムはこの最強魔法を自在に操り、わずかな時間で世界中の戦いを終結へと導いたのである。

The greatest hero in history surprisingly possessed dark magic. Blessed by the god of darkness, he wielded a pitch-black power that could envelop any substance (the kanji 物質 could translate to matter or substance) in shadow and consume it in an instant. Adam skillfully controlled this ultimate magic, leading to the end of battles worldwide in a very short time.
So, what's this. EE? Void manipulation?
 
That's literally EE though.
Returns all to the void

send anything it touches to the void

史上最高のヒーローが固有したのは、意外にも闇魔法である。 闇の神の加護を受け放つ漆黒の力は、 あらゆる物質を影で覆いつくし、 一瞬のうちに飲み込んでしまう。アダムはこの最強魔法を自在に操り、わずかな時間で世界中の戦いを終結へと導いたのである。

The greatest hero in history surprisingly possessed dark magic. Blessed by the god of darkness, he wielded a pitch-black power that could envelop any substance (the kanji 物質 could translate to matter or substance) in shadow and consume it in an instant. Adam skillfully controlled this ultimate magic, leading to the end of battles worldwide in a very short time.

That's basically the definition of Void hax.
 
You mean this one?

世界を終わらせることすら容易な闇をアダムは平和のために使った。

Adam used even the darkness that could easily end the world for the sake of peace.
Yeah, that's the one. The only peculiar part about it is if it's talking about his base and/or summons, or Lucifer Inclination.
 
Contextually it's EE not Void manipulation.
Void manipulation is you need feat for manipulating nothingness/Void. Adam isn't manipulating void here.
You mean this one?

世界を終わらせることすら容易な闇をアダムは平和のために使った。

Adam used even the darkness that could easily end the world for the sake of peace.
Yeah this statement
Yeah, that's the one. The only peculiar part about it is if it's talking about his base and/or summons, or Lucifer Inclination.
I would assume base since everytime we see Adam fighting in that time period he's only in base
We can either scale his base to that or just downscale from summon. I know he was fighting in his base but there will arise arguments that it might be referring to his full power (means his summons included)
 
Contextually it's EE not Void manipulation.
Void manipulation is you need feat for manipulating nothingness/Void. Adam isn't manipulating void here.
It is not.

In both moments it is said that it does not erase other things, but rather that it consumes them/returns them to nothing.

One of the possible uses for Void hax on the page is literally this:
The user of this ability might be capable of turning targets to nothing.
Which is what Adam does, turns things into nothing, turns them back into emptiness.
 
It is not.

In both moments it is said that it does not erase other things, but rather that it consumes them/returns them to nothing.

One of the possible uses for Void hax on the page is literally this:

Which is what Adam does, turns things into nothing, turns them back into emptiness.
Oh brother can you check the link where it leads? You literally copy pasted the line without even knowing where it was linked.
 
Oh brother can you check the link where it leads? You literally copy pasted the line without even knowing where it was linked.

Because it's similar but the method is different. You have things like matter hax, transformation and body control in biological manipulation, but you don't automatically gain these abilities if, for example, you change the entire biology of a being, because you are using biological manipulation for that.

Adam isn't directly deleting things, he's sending things into nothingness. It's similar but the mechanics are different.

Furthermore, I sent the two scans to DDM, and he also thought it would be Void hax without more context (in fact it wouldn't be anymore, because these two scans are what explain Adam's magic, I just checked)
 
Because it's similar but the method is different. You have things like matter hax, transformation and body control in biological manipulation, but you don't automatically gain these abilities if, for example, you change the entire biology of a being, because you are using biological manipulation for that.
False Analogy.
Adam isn't directly deleting things, he's sending things into nothingness. It's similar but the mechanics are different.
Return to Void ≠ Sending things to the void.
Furthermore, I sent the two scans to DDM, and he also thought it would be Void hax without more context (in fact it wouldn't be anymore, because these two scans are what explain Adam's magic, I just checked)
He will change his take if he sees the context and also your link is not working
 
Return to Void ≠ Sending things to the void.
The second quote is him literally saying that everything the magic touches sends him into the void.

He will change his take if he sees the context and also your link is not working
For Adam there is no longer any context.

There are only two moments of explanation of his magic, which is what I sent.

The first being returning things to the void and the second sending everything that touches the void.
 
The second quote is him literally saying that everything the magic touches sends him into the void.
You are ignoring the context which refers to sending/returning to the void means erasing it.
For Adam there is no longer any context.

There are only two moments of explanation of his magic, which is what I sent.

The first being returning things to the void and the second sending everything that touches the void.
Same as above. Context is clear you are just ignoring it.
Return = Sending back.
Everything is born from nothingness and returning things to Void /nothingness means erasing their existence. It's a typical trope used by authors in most of the series. You haven't shown a single scan for Adam manipulating Void. All you have shown so far is talking about EE.
There are these two below.

無 (mu) - nothingness, none, ain't, nothing, nil, noth
還す (kaesu) - to send (someone) back; to send (someone) home

GPT 4o also translates the way it is in the manga.
Even this clearly talks about sending back.
 
Good thing innocent Zero almost did it on panel So we Can just calc his thirds
But, how would you calculate that. It never made contact with any land, just an apparently deep as hell ocean. Wouldn't it just be better to just find the, I don't know, atomization value of a planet like earth?
 
You are ignoring the context which refers to sending/returning to the void means erasing it.

Same as above. Context is clear you are just ignoring it.
Return = Sending back.
Everything is born from nothingness and returning things to Void /nothingness means erasing their existence. It's a typical trope used by authors in most of the series. You haven't shown a single scan for Adam manipulating Void. All you have shown so far is talking about EE.

Even this clearly talks about sending back.
Also when Adams dark magic touches wahlbergs cloths it Burns away and just disintegrates rather than just vanish or something which supports it being erasure imo
 
But, how would you calculate that. It never made contact with any land, just an apparently deep as hell ocean. Wouldn't it just be better to just find the, I don't know, atomization value of a planet like earth?
Well its momentum got completely halted by everyone's magic, so you could argue it didn't do anything due to the lack of speed it had before it was stoped
 
Well its momentum got completely halted by everyone's magic, so you could argue it didn't do anything due to the lack of speed it had before it was stoped
Maybe, but it appeared to pick that momentum back up considering it was making shockwaves with its speeds.

Anyways, since this is based on Adam Job's magic, wouldn't we have to take into consideration the scaling? Adam is close to the God tiers but he isn't one, and God tiers transcend any other magic. Wouldn't this mean base God Zero would be above whatever value Adam has from all this?
 
Maybe, but it appeared to pick that momentum back up considering it was making shockwaves with its speeds.

Anyways, since this is based on Adam Job's magic, wouldn't we have to take into consideration the scaling? Adam is close to the God tiers but he isn't one, and God tiers transcend any other magic. Wouldn't this mean base God Zero would be above whatever value Adam has from all this?
It picked back some momentum but I'd argue it's not nearly as much as the initial momentum but we can agree to disagree. Also yes God zero should scale above whatever Adam can produce
 
So then we have to find out what Adam can produce..... Which would be the atomization of the earth? Or whatever value that EE gives.
 
Neat so baseline planet level Adam, we already have doom at moon level and we are probably gonna scale Adam above him I assume so I guess this is fine (even if doom vs adam is debatable)
I do think it's best to only scale Summons Adam to this. If base Adam were 5-B, Wahlberg would be as well, since he could overpower a pure blast of magic without using Spaces.
 
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