Marvel Cosmology Downgrade

[Antvasima]

beyond realm is beyond dimensions tho....so how is it high 1-b

That's pretty much a nonsense concept though. All that we can infer from it is that it transcends the regular Marvel multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

This is the beyond Realm that is bigger than the multiverse and the multiverse is like a drop of water in an ocean compared to it.

No, it is bigger than the multiverse, yes, but a universe is a drop of water in the ocean compared to it.

 

[Gasper]

That's pretty much a nonsense concept though. All that we can infer from it is that it transcends the regular Marvel multiverse.

Actually, it dosen't "transend" the multiverse. It's just "bigger".

 

[Vasco]

Consistently 16D to higher.

Yeah, if someone can prove dimensions are higher infinities, it scales to hyperversal, unless multi+

Marvel can't be multiversal+ even when extremely lowballed.

There is also galactus's scan stating he transends dimensions. So idk what that is all about.

I'd take that scan with a grain of salt.

one scan thor's true form was stated to be beyond dimensions or something like that.

He said he transends dimensions in the context of dimensional travel not his beyond dimensions or something like that.

What everyone thinks about this?



Looks like pure wank to me just want to hear your thoughts.

No one should listen to all this YouTube videos, it's mostly wank.

 

[Gasper]

He said he transends dimensions in the context of dimensional travel not his beyond dimensions or something like that.

Ah, i see.

 

[Vasco]

Just take a look at this thread that have some scans about Marvel Cosmology. Try and debunk them
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4

Will check later, thanks.

Well, the Pre-Retcon Beyonder was stated to be millions of times more powerful than the entire Marvel multiverse combined, which would still end up with the Marvel multiverse as High 1-B in that case.

Yeah about this, the entities then weren't really powerful in that secret wars event, literally all of them powers combined would only be able to destroy 1/3 of the universe and that's mephisto also taking energies from heroes and villians also. Literally no entity then was shown to be High-1B up to the thanos quest event(All IG this and that), also it was believed by the entities that combined attack would possibly kill or defeat the beyonder. I can agree for the entities then to be Low 2-C due to their roles in reality and all that but not High-1B even 2-A feat was a massive shit then.

No, it is bigger than the multiverse, yes, but a universe is a drop of water in the ocean compared to it.

I remember reading the secret wars event and one time it stated to be multiverse also and not just the universe, since I read comics for fun and all that I don't really keep scans and it would be a pain to read secret wars event Just to look for a single scan but I do remember once it later stated to be multiverse though all intro mentioned Universe.

 

[Antvasima]

Only case is, we don't know further context about those dimensions and it was retconed anyways.

Yes, I suppose that it would only scale to the Pre-Retcon version of The Beyonder.

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, it dosen't "transend" the multiverse. It's just "bigger".

I suppose so.

 

[Antvasima]

I remember reading the secret wars event and one time it stated to be multiverse also and not just the universe, since I read comics for fun and all that I don't really keep scans and it would be a pain to read secret wars event Just to look for a single scan but I do remember once it later stated to be multiverse though all intro mentioned Universe.

I only remember an author text that decribed a regular universe being a drop of water in the ocean compared to it.

Can you try to find the scan please?

 

[Vasco]

That would take a while, that's if I see it, but from Friday i would have enough time.

 

[Gasper]

I only remember an author text that decribed a regular universe being a drop of water in the ocean compared to it.

Can you try to find the scan please?

I also remember what vasco said

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that you only have to skim through the 10-issues Secret Wars II series at least.

 

[Antvasima]

I also remember what vasco said

Well, I think that it may be somebody misremembering or misunderstanding, and then stating it somewhere where lots of people would see it, so we need to check for the source.

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Gasper @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

I would greatly appreciate if you are all willing to help out here, or with organising another, more properly structured, revision thread out of the information here.

 

[Eseseso]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Gasper @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

I would greatly appreciate if you are all willing to help out here, or with organising another, more properly structured, revision thread out of the information here.

I'm sorry, I just don't know enough about Marvel Cosmology to give valuable input here.

 

[Vasco]

Well, I think that it may be somebody misremembering or misunderstanding, and then stating it somewhere where lots of people would see it, so we need to check for the source.

I remember reading it directly from the comics, and had a chat on it then with a friend.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm sorry, I just don't know enough about Marvel Cosmology to give valuable input here.

Okay. That is unfortunate, but no problem.

 

[Antvasima]

I remember reading it directly from the comics, and had a chat on it then with a friend.

Okay. I remember reading a sentence about a universe being a drop of water in the ocean though, but if you are correct, we need to find the scan and issue reference. You might have read something edited by BeyonderGod or some other person who loves The Beyonder to extremes.

 

[Robo432343]

Scan?

On my phone rn but it’s in Jean grays profile

 

[Vasco]

Okay. I remember reading a sentence about a universe being a drop of water in the ocean though, but if you are correct, we need to find the scan and issue reference. You might have read something edited by BeyonderGod or some other person who loves The Beyonder to extremes.

It was stated multiple times being the universe and once the multiverse, all beginning issues stated universe, probably you're right but I'd check. But it wouldn't change much if it's the universe or multiverse that's like a drop of water in an ocean compared to his realm since it's already established his realm is bigger.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, it was stated to be millions of times bigger/superior to the Marvel multiverse.

 

[Deleted member 21887]

this?

Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme Vol 1 #87

 

[Antvasima]

That is a good find. Thank you. Perhaps we can use that and the other Doctor Strange scans with George Cantor in combination?

 

[Vasco]

this?

Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme Vol 1 #87

There's another again that proves High-1B and R-F difference.

 

[LuciferX]

this?

Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme Vol 1 #87

This will scale cosmology to 1-B at least.

 

[Vasco]

This will scale cosmology to 1-B at least.

High-1B*

 

[LuciferX]

High-1B*

High 1-B scans has insonsistencies. I already disproved most of them.

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate regarding how the two sets of Doctor Strange scans have been properly disproven.

 

[Vasco]

High 1-B scans has insonsistencies. I already disproved most of them.

You didn't disprove the most recent one and it's not inconsistent, nothing makes it inconsistent, High-1B marvel cosmology is consistent, the only thing you can say is that not all writers adapt the multiverse to always be High-1B.

 

[LuciferX]

Please elaborate regarding how the two sets of Doctor Strange scans have been properly disproven.

I proved transfinite is below infinity and literary same issue said multiverse is just 3d (4D with time-temporal)

 

[LuciferX]

There's another again that proves High-1B and R-F difference.

What this scan could be referring to, is similar to Platos world of forms, where all of existence and imagination is simply a “shadow” of the true platonic form of reality. Which would qualify as a transcendence.

 

[Vasco]

Which would qualify as a transcendence.

Yes, reality is a shadow of a Greater reality, that's R-F difference.

 

[LuciferX]

Yes, reality is a shadow of a Greater reality, that's R-F difference.

So you are saying marvel universes exist as a r>f hierarchy? He is refering to alt universes. by that logic, the people exist in alt universes are higher dimensional?????????

 

[Robo432343]

I proved transfinite is below infinity and literary same issue said multiverse is just 3d (4D with time-temporal)

No.. you proved that transfinite is below absolute infinity which has nothing to do with high hyper. Also I found that 'debunk' on quora btw

 

[Excellence616]

So you are saying marvel universes exist as a r>f hierarchy? He is refering to alt universes. by that logic, the people exist in alt universes are higher dimensional?????????

What of places like the Gutter space, The Superflow, The Overspace, The Underspace, The Below Realm, The House Of Ideas, Exo-Space and The Paradox Space

 

[Vasco]

So you are saying marvel universes exist as a r>f hierarchy? He is refering to alt universes. by that logic, the people exist in alt universes are higher dimensional?????????

For Marvel it seems more appropriate with editorial direction instead, as it won't turn coherent enough to tier otherwise.

Anyway, The Beyond-Realm was explicitly stated to have infinite directions, and the Beyonder evaluated the Marvel multiverse to be infinite-dimensional in a Hulk issue taking place during Secret Wars II.

Yes, it's blatantly stated lesser worlds are seen as shadows to greater one's that's R-F difference and not about alternate universes, people who exists in greater dimensions are higher dimensional since their dimension sees lower worlds as shadows.

I believe this message by Antvasima means infinite directions = High-1B (in a weird way).

 

[Gasper]

There is also a scan saying universes are dreams inside a bigger dreams in an infinite hierarchy.

 

[Eficiente]

What everyone thinks about this?



Looks like pure wank to me just want to hear your thoughts.

I follow that guy for fun, his standards are pretty different from ours (to not say bad). To note, most Vs Debaters in youtube created their own standards basically in a vacuum, w/o too many things being questioned and polished over time in ways one can go back to and see again at any time, and w/o looking too well into long debates of topics out there across internet for second opinions. The latter can be because a number of them (up to one to judge) seek value in their audiences' thoughts in a way that prevents them from growing too much as Vs Debaters over the years.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here exactly? Keep the Marvel cosmology tiering but remove the debunked "feats" for it from our pages and add any new genuinely reliable proof for an infinite-dimensional hierarchy, and possibly also downgrade the pre-Al Ewing cosmology to High 1-B and the post-Al Ewing cosmology to Low 1-A, except for The One Above All, who keeps their 1-A tiering?

 

[Excellence616]

and possibly also downgrade the pre-Al Ewing cosmology to High 1-B and the post-Al Ewing cosmology to Low 1-A, except for The One Above All, who keeps their 1-A tiering?

Yes, i agree on this