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Marvel cosmic entities revision

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Shivansh_Garg

Shivansh_Garg

518
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Okay I will make it short

Ivory Kings

>They transcend the very label of being and doing things in chronological order

>Aren't limited by space, energy or anything within reaso

>All of reality is their imaginatio

>The bomb Doom created to destroy them was even better tha (2nd and 3rd scans) the bomb they created to blow up all of creation

>Them being bound by their own timelines is obvious Comic Induced Stupidity, given even someone like Kronos (who should be nothing compared to them) would've stopped Doom by time travelling and thwarting his plans

Living Tribunal

>Transcends space time and all dualities

>No selled all of creation and M'Kraan Crystal blowing up, the same M'Kraan Crystal is stated to be not bound by space and time

Eternity/Infinity/First Firmament/Never Quee

>Marvel cosmology has shown to possess places beyond all temporal existence

>Beyond all things real and imagined

>All existence is Eternity's imaginatio

>I am not sure about this one, but apparently Collective Unconsciousness from Jungian psychology is a thing in Marvel, as stated more tha just once, which according to experts is outside and not bound by space and time

" It helps move past fears that prevent you from being who you are When you enter the world of archetypes you leave the outer world of space and time. The archetypal world is not bound by space and time: it's not just about your mother and father but also about archetypes that encompass the world of mothers or fathers. It's an orientation, a destiny"

In conclusion, Marvel has shown to possess 1-A features and that would place Eternity and everyone equal to or above him on the same tier
 
Bump. I'll definitely at least look at this thoroughly.... I do agree with a good sum of the info, though the scaling part is trickier due to.... Marvel being Marvel.
 
I personally think that the Living Tribunal and the Beyonders will likely be upgraded to 1-A eventually, when Matthew finds the time to handle it, but your scans do not seem to be very explicit evidence.

In any case, you need to ask Matthew and Sandman31 to comment here.
 
I have asked both of them and Azathoth too. As for the validity of evidence, Eternity embodies 1-A places within him, Living Tribunal has no selled a 1-A object blowing up, while Ivory Kings being bound by their own timelines is obvious PIS due to the context behind it. All of that seems solid 1-A as far as I am concerned
 
Eternity and everyone equal to or above him (including Infinity, Never Queen, First Firmament, Living Tribunal, Ivory Kings, Protege, and probably Heart of the Infinite Thanos)
 
Well, I think that your own scans seem too diffuse and dependent on interpretation, but there is another scan that I showed Matthew in which the LT explicitly stated that it transcends the concepts of space and time, and the Beyonders would scale from that.

I am very uncertain about Eternity and the other multiversal abstracts though, but if Matthew and Sandman31 are fine with it, I won't argue.

Azathoth is not as knowledgeable about Marvel as they are though.
 
Can you post the scan here? Also feel free to ask any questions regarding the scans. They are dependent on context of the stories, not interpretation. I have asked all three because I have heard Azathoth is knowledgable on characters on this level
 
Azathoth understands our system well, but he is not all that knowledgeable about Marvel by my experience.
 
There are a few more things that can be brought up to [ A reality that predates the World of Forms, is a reality inside the Nexus. Oblivion in his debut comic directly states that the World of Forms is the Multiverse. That, and 6 other events implies some universes contain 1-A concepts, realms , and entities. In-fact, there is a universe within the Multiverse that directly states it transcends all concepts ] .

It would theoretically affect every 2-A to High 1-B entity we have here. That is why this isn't a "simple" revision.
 
Do you have the scan of the Universe which transcends all concepts?

As for 2-A to High 1-B characters, they have been specifically shown affecting/threatening all of space, time and reality, so unless explicitly stated, places beyond space, time and reality (like the ones I posted above) wouldn't be involved. This is backed by several times Eternity or Infinity weren't even remotely bothered by all of creation threatened (the entire Time Runs Out and Secret Wars event rebooting all of reality with no physical effect on Eternity, the manifestations of previous totalities still existing even though the totalities have been obliterated)
 
As far as I understand, Eternity was reduced to embodying just a single planet (the Secret Wars composite) until the Molecule Man and Franklin Richards started rebuilding him, and his Infinity aspect died.
 
No. In Silver Surfer (2014) #15, Eternity was shown getting free from Doom's control. All of creation was restored by Owen and Franklin with no effect on Eternity's physical size. Infinity, like Eternity was attacked by Ivory Kings. It is unknown what happened to her (Eternity was rendered unconscious) as she appears directly in Ultimated^2 #100 where she was completely fine
 
I did not read it that way at all. Eternity was reduced to embodying a single planet, as that was all that was left of the multiverse, and if that planet was gone, he would have completely died, just like the previous iterations of the Marvel multiverse, rather than just the Infinity part of him.

The previous iterations of the multiverse, including Infinity, died, but their spirits were allowed to briefly return by The-One-Above-All.
 
I will post the scan soon. As for him dying and the Ultimate Ultimates being allowed to return by the One Above All, I don't remember anything that implied so, ergo I would consider it head canon unless specific scans proving so are posted
 
Al Ewing mentioned that the OAA allowed the spirits of the dead multiverses to return on Twitter, and it was pretty clear from the story as well.
 
The OAA introduced itself in the beginning of the story, and the multiverses were previously stated to be dead and gone, and apparently returned from "beyond the farthest shore", a type of afterlife.
 
It was a symbolic divine light that the previously stated to be dead multiverses stepped into, and there would be little point to the OAA appearing if it did not play a part in the story.
 
Antvasima said:
It was a symbolic divine light that the previously stated to be dead multiverses stepped into, and there would be little point to the OAA appearing if it did not play a part in the story.
Click to expand...
Listen to me Antvasima. You've been saying that Matthew will take care of the Marvel revisions for months now. Every time someone tries to do the revisions themselves, you just tell them to stop and that they should wait for Matthew but the problem is that this dude has been "busy" for so long that I feel like the revisions will never happen. Matthew can't be busy for THAT long can he? Tell him to start with the damn revisions or get someone else to do it, because it's getting ridiculous now.
 
I'm sorry if I came off as rude, but I just really want this to be over with. And get rid of that Darth Vader picture Eganergo, this is supposed to be a serious discussion between me and Antvasima.
 
I am honestly also tired of waiting, but am used to that things move slowly around here. I had to wait for 1.5 years for Naruto revisions, and around 3 years for Demonbane for example.

We need some competent staff members to organise this kind of project, and Matthew's first priority is The Elder Scrolls when he finds the time. Then he can hopefully focus on Marvel.
 
I really agree with @Faster... Now its been a year I have been waiting for the Phoenix revisions. The thing is that Marvel is really popular and many enter the site and many pages need to be fixed...
 
Yes, I know. I am also tired of waiting. Maybe Sandman31 is willing to handle it instead.
 
Bump. I am sorry... But Franklin being no threat to Eternity , and being only "Universal" is blatantly contradicted in several storylines:

  • Eternity was concerned about Franklin's Heroes Reborn Timeline ( because of it's threat to the Multiverse ... We see that later in Strange Tales ) , & was there to judge Franklin when he accidentally used his powers in a fit of anger. Living Tribunal waa also interested in him as well due to his level of power. Then a statement he could beat Multiversal Inbetweener before his powers fully unlocked by Adult Franklin proves my point even further.
  • Don't even get me started on the fact he's consistently stated as the most powerful mutant, even after the Chaos Wave incident & Onslaught oneshotted the Full Multiversal Phoenix Force when Jean manifested the full thing against him using Franklin's powers.
  • Celestials in Heroes Reborn could threaten all of creation ( True Form Asheena & Tiamut ) . Tiamut was stated as such 3 times , and stated the Celestials would have no problem beating him (implying he is fodder to regular Celestials) . Asheena also scared Man-Thing and overloaded him with reality warping, when his body canonically handled reality warping of At leaat High 1-B to 1-A levels of power in Strange Tales and Spider-Man Annual 1999 . Asheena did it w/ a mere stare, Franklin did it subconsciously.
  • Physically yes Man-Thing is a glass camom , but Reality Warping he's no solled several immense reality warping events , including the Ultimate Nullifier w/o a scratch, hinting even then his body resist reality warping, much less Post-Strange Tales.
  • If that was not enough the Celestials were retconned to Multiversal Eternity level in Ultimates/Secret Wars , the very comic Franklin helped Owen shape Multi-Eternity & The Cosmics. Yes, even shaping them would be a feat supporting this.
  • Uatu deacribed Franklin Richards & Abraxas in Abraxas Arc ( Who Franklin gave Galactus enough power to harm without the UN, and confirmed it was only him giving that power by Valeria ) as a theat to all that exist. The Narrator & one knowledagble about his role described Uatu in the very same sets of comics as Abraxas Arc takes place on explicitly to view the infinite totality of existence & the entieety of creation. This would mean both is a threat to all of creation.
  • Roma also says the same thing about Franklin in Captain Britain, which is in the very same set of comics the Infinite Totality of Existence & All of Creation statements about the Multiverse were in, plus All the Myriad Dimensions of Reality. Then 2 guidebooks state he is a threat to the Multiverse and can destroy it.
  • Franklin was stated to have warped the outer reaches of the Negative Zone, which contaimed the Crosroads of Infinity. This is consistent with Asheema transcending beyond subspace, which would mean being beyond the Higher-Dimensions of reality due to what subspace is.
  • They even stated that The Heroes Reborn event caused all of existence, even the 1-A realities ( one predating the World of Forms, which Oblivion states is the Multiverse , unbound by concepts of time and space, beyond the concept of infinity ) I mentioned in Strange Tales, to collapse and End of All Things, which explains why Eternity kept the Timeline as it was dangerous to all reality
So him being "fodder" is contradicted too many times to ignore. The question is how to handle it.
 
Well, you can ask Sandman31 and Matthew to comment here.
 
Sorry if If I seemed to have went on a tangent... I was slightly upset about a merely Universal F.R because it does seem consistent he is portrayed much higher.

I can contact them, but would prefer if someone else did.
 
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