Marvel Comics: Possible Yggdrasil Upgrade (Staff only)

[Overlord775]

@Matt

Why wouldn't we automatically assume that "outside of the multiverse" is "outside of Eternity" since the nordic worlds are part of the Marvel Multiverse aka Eternity ?

^

 

[SomebodyData]

@Luck he got a new tab for his true state (didn't have it before), in a comic where he was actively mentioned for this upgrade.

@kep, read my comment. I'm not questioning the consistency, as you put it, I was just pointing out what we usually do in a specific circumstance.

 

[Antvasima]

I continue to strongly agree with Matthew, PrinceOfTheMorning, Hykuu, ClassicNESfan, SomebodyData, and Sera. We cannot perform such unfathomably enormous upgrades based on such unreliable and flimsy evidence, no matter how much verbose wild speculation that is connected to it. Given that this is never going to be accepted, I would appreciate if the proponents would stop wasting all of our time with relentlessly pushing this suggestion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah I'm also confident that this is never being accepted.

 

[Kepekley23]

I am going to be heading out soon to a Jiu jitsu competition at my town, and will likely not come back home until late into the night, so I'd appreciate it if this wasn't closed in the meantime.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Good luck Kep!

 

[Luck100]

But a lot of people agree with the upgrade in this thread and in the preview one.

 

[Antvasima]

The point is that this entire argument is based on a lot of relentless verbose argumentation with very little concrete evidence as a basis if you start to actually examine all of the scans, especially for such a ridiculously massive upgrade, and the staff consensus is currently against this suggestion.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Luck well a lot of people were also neutral / disagreed. Seems rather mixed.

 

[Kepekley23]

Ultima, one of the two writers the new system, agrees with this upgrade. So at least 3 staff members who are actually knowledgeable on the subject, plus several other knowledgeable regular members of Marvel, agree that it is reasonable. It doesn't matter if you believe it is "relentless verbose argumentation, without any substance" or something of the sort. It doesn't and won't give anyone the right to close the discussion just yet, especially when there is no actual consensus that has been formed: it is rather mixed between both knowledgeable regular users, and staff members.

Anyway, once I come back, I'll make a huge summary post on the matter.

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima has not commented in the current thread, and likely did not read far enough in the discussion for the arguments of ClassicNESfan and others, as I think he commented very early on.

 

[Kepekley23]

I talked to him a few minutes ago.

Anyway, as I said, I'd appreciate it if you waited for my summary post; since I'll leave my computer roughly twenty minutes from now.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we need PrinceOfTheMorning and ClassicNESfan to help out with analysing this in that case, and preferably Sandman31 as well. They are some of the most knowledgeable and sensible members when it comes to Marvel scaling.

Anyway, I would appreciate if you stick to just a list of the relevant scans with evidence in your post, not a lot of verbose rhetorics and subjective interpetation. I place no value in style over substance.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Using Ultima as an appeal is rather ridiculous. Being responsible for Revising the Tiering System proper has no bearing over whether or not your word should be held as higher value for a specific upgrade thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Most of all, all of this talk about "Consensus" and "Irrefutable evidence" and "Easily debunkable counterarguments" to me are clear attempts of brute forcing an exaggerated upgrade rating through.

 

[Kepekley23]

Ok bro. I'm just saying that multiple staff members who are knowledgeable on the new Tiering System, and Marvel Comics at the same time (other than myself) believe that this upgrade is reasonable, which debunks Ant's idea that there is a decisive staff consensus from all knowldgeable members that this upgrade is bull.

 

[Kepekley23]

Most of all, all of this talk about "Consensus" and "Irrefutable evidence" and "Easily debunkable counterarguments" to me are clear attempts of brute forcing an exaggerated upgrade rating through.

Half of these words were used by Ant in the posts you've been kudoing, not me. "Staff consensus", "refutable rhetorics" and the likes. I'm glad that we can agree on something in this thread, though: which is the fact that putting forth a lot of meaningless buzzwords to accentuate your side of the debate does nothing to help the thread.

 

[Luck100]

Using Ultima as an appeal is rather ridiculous. Being responsible for Revising the Tiering System proper has no bearing over whether or not your word should be held as higher value for a specific upgrade thread.

Why is ridiculous ? Because he agreed ?

More than 10 people agreed with the upgrade why should the approval of these people should be ignored ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ok bro. I'm just saying that multiple staff members who are knowledgeable on the new Tiering System, and Marvel Comics at the same time (other than myself) believe that this upgrade is reasonable, which debunks Ant's idea that there is a decisive staff consensus from all knowldgeable members that this upgrade is bull.

How is bringing up that there's multiple staff members and people who are knowledgeable on Marvel in favor of the upgrade any different from bringing up that there are multiple staff members and people who are knowledgeable on Marvel against the upgrade. You're not winning yourself any favor here. Specially since you deride Ant for bringing up the names of those in support of rejecting.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Using Ultima as an appeal is rather ridiculous. Being responsible for Revising the Tiering System proper has no bearing over whether or not your word should be held as higher value for a specific upgrade thread.

Why is ridiculous ? Because he agreed ?

I explained why it's ridiculous in the post you're quoting. Read again.

And "10 people" agreeing with an upgrade because of reasonings that have already been debunked isn't much of anything.

 

[Luck100]

@Matthew

I don't see any debuking only people getting reckt by kepekley ... post scans without context isn't a good argument you know.

@Alonik post scans and people simly say "that marvel needs a anti-wank" I feel that people is doing a real crusade to nerf Marvel.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I have yet to see any good scans on this thread from KEp, Alonik or whoever. Only overly lengthy verbose posts and people piggybacking off them.

Moreover, I personally think that the likes of ClassicNESFan, Hykuu and PrinceOfTheMorning have destroyed the opposition here.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

I have yet to see any good scans on this thread from KEp, Alonik or whoever. Only overly lengthy verbose posts and people piggybacking off them.

Moreover, I personally think that the likes of ClassicNESFan, Hykuu and PrinceOfTheMorning have destroyed the opposition here.

But wait...

I thought you were the guy who said this exact type of comment was absolutely meaningless and only served to increase hostility on this thread?

Seriously, why are we derailing the thread so hard with these "X rekt Y" comments, again?

 

[Luck100]

@Mattew


Put the glasses on, because most of people quited the discussion because they make two parts and even with staff only the upgrde was not close because no one succed to debunk it.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Mattew

Put the glasses on, because most of people quited the discussion because they make two parts and even with staff only the upgrde was not close because no one succed to debunk it.

Winning an Oscar Nomination for your role as a stone wall to the point where people get exhausted and take breaks from the thread isn't evidence that "your side" has better argument.

No, it's evidence that you're insufferable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stuff

Yes. The multiverse was destroyed in Secret Wars (A Multiverse that wasn't Low 1-A then, mind you). And Those Who Sit Above reside outside the multiverse and turned out okay.

But that doesn't prove they're 1-A or that Thor is 1-A or whatever.

 

[Overlord775]

if they originate from a High 1-B/Low 1-A/1-A place, why wouldn't they be that tier ?

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Yes. The multiverse was destroyed in Secret Wars (A Multiverse that wasn't Low 1-A then, mind you). And Those Who Sit Above reside outside the multiverse and turned out okay.

But that doesn't prove they're 1-A or that Thor is 1-A or whatever.

Except when you realize that Ragnarok is blatantly being portrayed as multiversal here.

Guess what the TWSAIS' relationship to Ragnarok is?

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Also, the seventh Multiverse is Low 1-A. The Eighth Multiverse is 1-A.

Check our profiles.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

if they originate from a High 1-B/Low 1-A/1-A place, why wouldn't they be that tier ?

Every Daemon from 40K is now 1-A I guess under this spectacular logic.

We rate people on their feats not the size of their house.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Except when you realize that Ragnarok is blatantly being portrayed as multiversal here.

Guess what the TWSAIS' relationship to Ragnarok is?

Ragnarok is a Cycle of Death and Rebirth for the Norse Gods and the Nine Realms. The events of Secret Wars being labeled "Ragnarok" in the issue recap is obviously not literal.

 

[Luck100]

Winning an Oscar Nomination for your role as a stone wall to the point where people get exhausted and take breaks from the thread isn't evidence that "your side" has better argument.

No, it's evidence that you're insufferable.

Great history, unfortunately the stone is better than the cone if that is the case.

I'm still awaiting the refuctation and i've been awaiting since preview post. .

 

[Overlord775]

Every Daemon from 40K is now 1-A I guess under this spectacular logic.

We rate people on their feats not the size of their house.

False Equalacy, littterally only the warp gods have even remotly anything to do with the 1-A

but, in fact, Grey Knight's soul hax is threated as 1-B because of daemon's true selfs in the warp

 

[Antvasima]

It is a basic premise of our tiering system that being present in a higher degree of reality does not automatically scale to the beings there.

 

[Luck100]

And the TWSAIS being from the outside of eternity ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Being from outside of Eternity =/= Being 1-A.

Do you think that The Living Tribunal's servants from The Star Chamber are all Low 1-A? Serious question.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, "1-B Soul Hax" is just wank that 40K fans make up in threads. It's not in the profiles for a reason.

 

[Luck100]

Being from outside of Eternity =/= Being 1-A.
Do you think that The Living Tribunal's servants from The Star Chamber are all Low 1-A? Serious question.

You was been asked by kepeley about beyonders being 2-A and you ignore it.

But I can aswer you. Being from the outside make you low 1-A and transcend Yggdrasil a tree who reach the top dimension of a low 1-A verse (otherworld) make someone who transcended that tree 1-A too.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

> Ragnarok is a Cycle of Death and Rebirth for the Norse Gods and the Nine Realms. The events of Secret Wars being labeled "Ragnarok" in the issue recap is obviously not literal.

The end of all reality is the end of all reality, no matter what name you give to it. Apocalypse, Ragnarok, Chaos, Death. It is all the end of the multiverse. This is explicitly shown in the storyline itself.

Odin visits the TWSAIS' natural domain in the outside of the multiverse in a dream, and the TWSAIS tell him that Ragnarok is coming:

• "But now is the new Ragnarok. Now the stars end - and we return."

• "And when I woke - I knew, in my heart's blood. The end was upon us."

• "You strut on your stage, as if words and treaties would hold back cosmic oblivion! The Apocalypse will wait no longer! Pledge your arms to your All-Father, for the Last Day has come!"

The end of the Nine Realms is the end of all the cosmos, all the multiverse:

• We in Heven believe that such "cosmic change" is merely a natural Multiversal Process...

• Together, perhaps we have but the slightest chance to escape the Death of Everything...

The story of the Last Battle is what comes before the "Whole Omniverse" is wiped out:

• "We can all feel it. The day of the Last Battle. The end of the universe, the final death of the World Tree."

• "If the whole omniverse is wiped out, there will still be a story somewhere. Loads, in fact."

During the final moments of the entire multiverse:

• "This is the day the sky falls! When Everything Dies!

• "The Omniverse is ending. King Loki wants to prolong his existence by destroying Midgard, thus preventing it from crashing it into another Midgard.

Hela directly states that the entire multiverse is dying:

• Here be so, but the multiverse has grown small and weak

And then, in the Last Battle previously talked about:

• "Until the sky-fire stole Midgard and her twin, burned both, and ended all.

Which then proceeds to cut to the shot where Loki is holding the Story of the Multiverse in his hand right before he meets the TWSAIS.

It is impossible to read the storyline and still somehow say, with a straight face, that it is not portraying Ragnarok as an Omniversal/Multiversal event, and the TWSAIS were going to consume that story into themselves.