-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Marvel Comics - Odin AP Revision
- Thread starter ObberGobb
- Start date
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 23,330
- 17,031
yes I understand you but I think that Confluctor refers when the Destroyer is animated by Odin or someone with a soul of immense power(For example: Loki)
- 12,662
- 9,597
At peak, yes
- 12,662
- 9,597
They should be part of a different scaling chain.
- 15,280
- 15,444
I have a questions about one of the listings.
Confluctor/Marvel 2-C
vsbattles.fandom.com
Why wouldn’t he scale to full power Odin? In this scan (which is listed on his profile) Odin himself says that he and base Surtur are evenly matched.
- 165,203
- 72,181
Okay. It was obviously even stronger than Odin when it was of giant size due to being animated by the latter and all of the other Asgardians.
- 12,662
- 9,597
I mean if you can prove Odin was at his 2A self, sure.
- 15,280
- 15,444
Remind me exactly how we determine if Odin is at his peak or not.
- 12,662
- 9,597
We have to consider the greater context around feats and determine whether he was at peak or not. Like how he was acting (was he weak around that time? Or was he as powerful as he is meant to be) and all that shit
Stuff like his fight against Seth and Celestials would be him at peak, and stuff against Galactus would be him not at peak.
Stuff like his fight against Seth and Celestials would be him at peak, and stuff against Galactus would be him not at peak.
- 15,280
- 15,444
That really doesn’t seem like the most solid criteria. Also wasn’t Odin like, directly stated to be weakened against Seth? How would that be him at his peak?
- 783
- 587
- Thread starter
- #212
Seth thought he was weakened at the beginning of the fight since Odin was recently mortal, but after Odin gains the upper hand he asks "how did you regain your power" to which Odin replies "all I needed was time". So it seems like at the beginning of the battle when Seth had the upper hand, Odin was still weakened, but he regained his full powers at the end and won.
- 12,662
- 9,597
Do you have anything better in mind?
'
It's either examining the feats properly, or having everyone and their grandma's scaling to Odin again, which is the last thing we should be doing.
If anything, the least amount of characters who should be scaling to him, the better. Dude's feats are all over the place. He is the one who caused this mess, and I would rather not have this mess continue further.
- 15,280
- 15,444
I mean, not really, but we can’t really use “was he portrayed as weak or portrayed as being as powerful as he’s meant to be” as actual criteria to determine if someone scales to him. That’s pretty subjective.
But in the case of Surtur, Odin himself says that they’re evenly matched and Odin had to sacrifice himself to beat him (Thor Vol. 1 #353), so I think he should definitely scale to his full power.
- 12,662
- 9,597
We can if we take the Odin sleep into factor.
But really, Odin is most of the time not in his peak, and rarely is. So shouldn't be that hard.
That doesn't mean Odin was 2A level.
- 15,280
- 15,444
Literally nothing in the comic implies that Odin was weakened, either by the Odinsleep or anything else, so…
- 12,662
- 9,597
But nothing says he was at 2A either... So you know.
That's why I wanted surtur to scale to his own feats. Much better than assuming he is matching 2A Odin. When they got other feats, I would rather use those than scaling. It's always better than scaling. Especially from varies characters like Odin
That's why I wanted surtur to scale to his own feats. Much better than assuming he is matching 2A Odin. When they got other feats, I would rather use those than scaling. It's always better than scaling. Especially from varies characters like Odin
- 15,280
- 15,444
That doesn’t make sense. Odin’s Varies mechanism is based on the Odinsleep and whether he’s weakened or not, yes? If he isn’t being affected by either of those things, and that doesn’t mean he’s 2-A, then what does?
- 12,662
- 9,597
Unless we know 100% that it was peak Odin, they shouldn't scale. They should instead scale to their own feats or others since it's easier to measure
- 15,280
- 15,444
But how do we define what peak Odin is-
- 12,662
- 9,597
When he fights stuff like Seth and Celestials and the dormammu statement = peak. Aka whenever he gets a 2a statement or new scaling or feat.
That's essentially like the 2 or 3 times he has ever shown feats on that level - at least from memory. Everything else from him is much lower. So not peak.
That's essentially like the 2 or 3 times he has ever shown feats on that level - at least from memory. Everything else from him is much lower. So not peak.
- 15,280
- 15,444
And how exactly do you know Odin at the peak of his power in those moments and not against Surtur? We need actual solid reasoning for this, and so far, that hasn’t been provided.
- 12,662
- 9,597
Idk mate, take it to ******* marvel who don't know wtf they are doing.
- 165,203
- 72,181
Amen. Although I think that they know what they are doing. They either just don't care at all about logical consistency, or in some cases are even actively malevolent regarding deliberately defiling and distorting the characters and continuity in their charge as much as possible just to act as political propagandists rather than entertainers.
Anyway, I obviously agree about that Odin has been portrayed very inconsistently in terms of power level, but am not sure how we should handle it. It is practical for our scaling to continue to list Surtur's 2-C level feat though.
- 12,662
- 9,597
I think the only thing we can do is just to not scale people from Odin in general, except for a few cases. As such, we should use their other feats instead.
We need to be careful of scaling characters from varied tiered characters. It's hard to sometimes tell wtf is going on with them.
We need to be careful of scaling characters from varied tiered characters. It's hard to sometimes tell wtf is going on with them.
- 957
- 791
Complicated?
CosmicWreck
He/Him- 674
- 385
Don't know about the political stance and some such. Not only is it kind of off topic but Marvel writers have been pushing their own agendas since the 90s and maybe even longer so it's not exactly new. I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing either.
I do agree with Confluctor though. There are like two different writer statements that insist Odin isn't beyond planetary levels of power.
There are also media conversations where writers are called out on their poor knowledge of characters which they proceeded to deny with a misguided sense of superiority for writing the story-lines thus refusing to address or even acknowledge the issues of their lack of knowledge of the source material.
There is currently way more evidence that the quality control of Marvel is so poor due to simple ignorance than otherwise, since it's clear they have their own ideas of logical consistency which manifests itself in blatant favoritism (which contradicts the idea that they don't care about it at all).
I don't think anyone counts the writers who deliberately warp canon for anything tbh. Since their portrayals are usually cast aside by other writers I don't think there's any point in getting annoyed with them though I understand why you might be.
Guys, just add a "possibly" or "likely higher" to his rating or a "possibly" or "likely 2-A".
I've honestly always found it bizarre that we have characters scaled to varied tiered individuals without noting it was possible for them to be stronger than what was rated or that the upper and lower bounds of feats they scale to are not their highest bounds of showings. We usually just scale them to that level because they don't have any usable feats or statements of their own.
- 12,662
- 9,597
Now why would we do that when surtur got his own feats he can scale to.
- 15,280
- 15,444
I mean, sure, but that doesn’t mean we can just slap something on the profile without any proper criteria.
If you can’t even define what peak Odin is and why he’s at his peak in specific moments, then we need to go back and re-evaluate the idea of giving him a Varies tier in the first place.
- 12,662
- 9,597
Odin sleep. Sure. Varied tier solved.
Ah, yes, when they can't even perform low 2c feats most of the time ,let's just slap 2a on it. Based af
- 15,280
- 15,444
Dude, it is not that simple.
- 12,662
- 9,597
Well, neither is scaling everyone to 2A, which is blantantly wrong in every possible way. How about we don't scale anyone to Odin, also problem solved. Or give him 15 different keys - which causes more issues.
- 15,280
- 15,444
I haven’t once advocated for scaling everyone to 2-A, I just want some actual criteria for determining when, how and why Odin is weakened/at his peak at any given moment instead of basically just going “he’s at his peak here because the story makes him seem strong”
- 12,662
- 9,597
The thing is, there is no proper in verse criteria aside from muh Odin Sleep. That's literally the only plausible explanation for his shit feats. He is just that bad. Whatever the **** happens to Odin, I just don't want the entire scaling chain relying on him again.
- 165,203
- 72,181
Because they are usually portrayed as far far weaker.
- 165,203
- 72,181
This makes sense to me.
Suggestions for constructive solutions would be very appreciated.
- 12,662
- 9,597
As I said, unless he has multiversal feats around that time, we can scale them to Odin at peak. If not, nobody scales. Yes, it's a weird ass criteria, but we are comprising in other parts of the verse too.
Similar threads
