Marvel Comics - Odin AP Revision

[ObberGobb]

Two reasons:
1. There are more justifications for the "possibly 2-A" than there are for the 2-C, and only one of them (The "maybe infinite iceberg") is just a possibility. The rest are pretty clear cut, and it being separately stated to exist on all planes of reality provides justification that the "maybe infinite iceberg" theory was correct. So I think there is enough that indicates Yggdrasil being a 2-A structure.

2. During his fight with Seth, there are a few things that can support 2-A. Silver Surfer says that "forces powerful enough to rock our entire continuum are in conflict," the battle is "simultaneously waged on every plane of existence," Seth "causes a massive shockwave which ripples across every plane of reality", and Doctor Strange describes it as an "upheaval which is tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse." These to me seem like they meet the "significantly affect" criteria for 2-A, especially the shockwave one.

So in conclusion, between the consistency of Yggdrasil being infinite, Odin's battle with Seth on all planes of existence, and all the other stuff already in the 2-A justification, I think there is more than enough to justify solely 2-A and remove the 2-C and "possibly" entirely.

This would affect all Skyfather tier characters.

I know that there is another Odin CRT going on, but since they said they weren't going to talk about tiering I figured it would be best to make a separate thread.

 

[LordTracer]

forces powerful enough to rock our entire continuum are in conflict

That’s not necessarily 2-A.

simultaneously waged on every plane of existence

That’s just range.

causes a massive shockwave which ripples across every plane of reality

Also range.

 

[LordTracer]

During his fight with Seth

Also you need a source for this scan.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Also you need a source for this scan.

Journey Into Mystery Vol 1 513

 

[Confluctor]

I honestly don't even disagree that Odin needs to lose his 2C stuff, the only reason he is stuck there is because of bozos like Zeus and them lot.

The better option for him is to be removed from scaling chain and just give him "Varies up to 2-A" cause he legit has a power mechanism.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

because of bozos like Zeus and them lot

What's wrong with them?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

That’s not necessarily 2-A.

That’s just range.

Also range.

Facts, affecting all reality over infinite universes is just range

 

[Confluctor]

What's wrong with them?

Zeus also has a power mechanism, but unlike Odin, he is most of the time herald level

 

[Stefano4444]

I think the way we currently tier Odin its fine, honestly it doesn't seen like the 2-A has so much more showing than 2-C as you suggest.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Zeus also has a power mechanism, but unlike Odin, he is most of the time herald level

So what should Zeus's tiering be?

 

[Confluctor]

So what should Zeus's tiering be?

3C to 2C, similarly to Mephisto and hell lords.

When it comes to skyfathers, most of them cap at 2c tier, Odin is supposedly a special case - even if, in general, I disagree with his 2A rating

 

[CosmicWreck]

Facts, affecting all reality over infinite universes is just range

The way they affect the reality is kind of important. Battling across infinite planes explicitly means they didn't actually destroy them, and a 2-A wide shock-wave would only need a high 3-A amount of power. It's honestly even less impressive than a multiversal earthquake, since its not described to do anything.

That’s not necessarily 2-A.

That’s just range.

Also range.

You didn't address Stephen's statement of tearing the fabric of the multiverse.

I also must disagree though. Stephen's statement is the only 2A feat I find here, and reading the issue itself Seth repeatedly referring to himself as a universal threat, the universe being stated to scream in agony by Jean, and other facts believe me to very much doubt they were going to destroy all Universes. It was more likely that they were going to remove the universe from the fabric of the multiverse's reality. The profile seems to portray 2-A better than this interpretation tbh, even if it depends on joining two authoral descriptions that are years apart.

I honestly don't even disagree that Odin needs to lose his 2C stuff, the only reason he is stuck there is because of bozos like Zeus and them lot.

The better option for him is to be removed from scaling chain and just give him "Varies up to 2-A" cause he legit has a power mechanism.

I agree with this.

A bit off topic though, but I've honestly always found it pretty weird.

Considering the marvel characters are canonically stated to have variable power levels by their own statements and writers admitting that whoever wins battles is basically just a popularity vote, why is it that, beside the god tiers, we don't have "Varies up to insert tier here" as the default tiering?

It honestly seems to be a bit better of a portrayal than the current descriptions, especially when stuff like Cyclops' statement are being used to reinforce their scaling (which is just...nonsense. Even the smallest of planets are bigger than celestial bodies like Pluto. Even without overcoming the GBE I seriously doubt splitting them would be so low. And I think some characters have even more wilder feats/statements than that and are still rated at island level).

 

[Confluctor]

While a lot of characters do have varies statements and mechanism, just because certain writers ignore it for some characters purely out of inconsistency, it's not something we should index either. Like Cates says he will have a tier 8 beat a tier 3 or 6 and doesn't give a crap. That's not enough of a reason to give them variable tier.

 

[LordTracer]

You didn't address Stephen's statement of tearing the fabric of the multiverse.

Because it’s actually a 2-A statement.

I don’t disagree with Odin losing his 2-C, but the majority of the statements from the Seth battle are just not 2-A.

 

[ObberGobb]

Because it’s actually a 2-A statement.

I don’t disagree with Odin losing his 2-C, but the majority of the statements from the Seth battle are just not 2-A.

That's fair. My main point in bringing up the planes of existence statements was mainly to provide supporting evidence for Strange's statement. I am kind of confused why the shockwave doesn't count though. Isn't shaking a 2-A structure a 2-A feat?

 

[ObberGobb]

That being said, couldn't Odin use a "varies" tier as well? If Zeus gets one, it would make a lot of sense. He is sometimes portrayed as being relatively close to Thor, as seen when he and Jane Foster fought pretty evenly. Thanos also fought him, and a "varies" tier would be a good way to include that. So something similar to Herald Tiers, with a 3-C holding back tier and a 2-A full power tier. It would especially make since for Odin to hold back, if his full power tore at the fabric of the multiverse.

 

[LordTracer]

I am kind of confused why the shockwave doesn't count though. Isn't shaking a 2-A structure a 2-A feat?

“rippling across every plane of reality” isn’t really the same as violently shaking them.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It would have had to affected the spacetime of all universes, rippling across all of reality implies it affects the fabric of reality instead of some kinda shockwave that travelled that far

 

[ObberGobb]

That makes sense

 

[LordTracer]

It would have had to affected the spacetime of all universes, rippling across all of reality implies it affects the fabric of reality instead of some kinda shockwave that travelled that far

Mm, no, rippling across all of reality implies that it’s rippling across all reality. And the narration literally calls it a shockwave so idk what makes you think it’s not.

 

[ObberGobb]

Mm, no, rippling across all of reality implies that it’s rippling across all reality. And the narration literally calls it a shockwave so idk what makes you think it’s not.

So if it had used a stronger word than "ripple", like "shook" or something, would it be considered 2-A?

 

[LordTracer]

So if it had used a stronger word than "ripple", like "shook" or something, would it be considered 2-A?

Yeah, if it stated that they were violently shaking all planes of reality or something like that, then it’d probably be 2-A AP.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Two reasons:
1. There are more justifications for the "possibly 2-A" than there are for the 2-C, and only one of them (The "maybe infinite iceberg") is just a possibility. The rest are pretty clear cut, and it being separately stated to exist on all planes of reality provides justification that the "maybe infinite iceberg" theory was correct. So I think there is enough that indicates Yggdrasil being a 2-A structure.

2. During his fight with Seth, there are a few things that can support 2-A. Silver Surfer says that "forces powerful enough to rock our entire continuum are in conflict," the battle is "simultaneously waged on every plane of existence," Seth "causes a massive shockwave which ripples across every plane of reality", and Doctor Strange describes it as an "upheaval which is tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse." These to me seem like they meet the "significantly affect" criteria for 2-A, especially the shockwave one.

So in conclusion, between the consistency of Yggdrasil being infinite, Odin's battle with Seth on all planes of existence, and all the other stuff already in the 2-A justification, I think there is more than enough to justify solely 2-A and remove the 2-C and "possibly" entirely.

This would affect all Skyfather tier characters.

I know that there is another Odin CRT going on, but since they said they weren't going to talk about tiering I figured it would be best to make a separate thread.

In this blog they collect more evidence that Yggdrasil is at least 2-A.

Thor, TWSAIS and Yggdrasil Page Explanation

topstrongest.fandom.com

 

[ObberGobb]

So, aside from the shockwave then, do you agree with removing 2-C?

 

[LordTracer]

So, aside from the shockwave then, do you agree with removing 2-C?

Yeah, I’m completely in favor of that. When I made the thread that gave Odin 2-A in the first place, I intended for it to be a solid rating, but I had to do 2-C, possibly 2-A as a compromise.

 

[ObberGobb]

Cool. What do you think about doing a "holding back" tier like the Herald Tier characters have?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Mm, no, rippling across all of reality implies that it’s rippling across all reality. And the narration literally calls it a shockwave so idk what makes you think it’s not.

Yeah so it affected the fabric of reality

 

[LordTracer]

Cool. What do you think about doing a "holding back" tier like the Herald Tier characters have?

I’d be more inclined to go with a Varies tier like Confluctor suggested.

 

[ObberGobb]

So like "At least 3-C, up to 2-A" like what Mephisto has?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I'm fine with either Varies or holding back

 

[ObberGobb]

Personally, I'd prefer a holding-back tier. I don't think that Odin has the same kind of power mechanism that characters like Gladiator and Hulk have, and it's purely just him not going all out.

 

[Confluctor]

I'm fine with either Varies or holding back

Holding back don't make sense, varies is more fitting

 

[ObberGobb]

Holding back don't make sense, varies is more fitting

Why?

 

[Confluctor]

Cause he doesn't have a mechanism like that?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

can you give us the scans for the new odin mechanism?

 

[Confluctor]

?

 

[Firestorm808]

What's our current list of Skyfather level feats looking like?

 

[LordTracer]

?

I believe he’s asking for scans of Odin having a variable power level.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I believe he’s asking for scans of Odin having a variable power level.

yeah this

 

[Confluctor]

Oh, that. I will see if I can gather some relevant scans soon. But isn't tha like common knowledge when it comes to Odin? Like something that's common across most of his appearances?