Marvel Comics - Odin AP Revision

[ObberGobb]

But that alternate universe is directly tied to 616. It's an alternate future, so everything that happened in 616 happened there. As seen here, if 616 Thor from the past is killed, Old King Thor will cease to exist. This means that he is a future version of the same character, and as such can be scaled to 616 Odinforce Thor from that character's past. We have no indication that in the millions of years Thor has lived, the Odinforce somehow changed and became much weaker.

 

[Confluctor]

Yes, I am aware. But futures in comics works very differently. Each future has their own reality - yes, every possible future becomes a separate reality - ie like 616 is a reality - in the marvel multiverse. As such, we cannot cross scale still without sufficient evidence.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[ObberGobb]

Is there any alternate future where the characters do have drastically different levels of power?

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I have understood, there are plenty of alternative timelines where the characters are stronger or weaker than usual, especially in relation to each other.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

I thought it was just a universe? But if that's the case, then they should be removed from the scaling chain and scale to their own feats. Works for me.

https://imgur.io/a/grFi4vj

 

[CosmicWreck]

I don't think we consider leading questions of writers as scalable.

 

[Confluctor]

Is there any alternate future where the characters do have drastically different levels of power?

Oh too many, wayyyyy too many.

https://imgur.io/a/grFi4vj

Oh great, WoG. No. Sorry.

Actual scans from comics?

Also, all of existence is rather meaningless. Cause that would imply either high 3a or 1a. Pick your poison.

 

[ObberGobb]

I'm sorry but I just don't see any reason to downgrade OKT at all. We have:

1) Strong implication that he is stronger as he says he held the Thorforce longer than Odin held the Odinforce
2) Confirmation it is the same character just in one of many possible far futures
3) Writer himself confirming the battle was Multiversal in scale
4) Fought the Phoenix Force

There is evidence that he scales, and no evidence that he doesn't.

 

[ObberGobb]

I get the hesitancy to scale across alternate realities, but I strongly feel that in this situation, the evidence should outweigh that hesitancy.

 

[Confluctor]

I'm sorry but I just don't see any reason to downgrade OKT at all. We have:

1) Strong implication that he is stronger as he says he held the Thorforce longer than Odin held the Odinforce

Where?

2) Confirmation it is the same character just in one of many possible far futures

Ofc they are. Every future character is related to 616, doesn't mean they scale.

3) Writer himself confirming the battle was Multiversal in scale

No, it is actually on 1A level. So, 1A Thor and Gorr.

4) Fought the Phoenix Force

Pretty sure I said that can be used as a legitimate feat...

There is evidence that he scales, and no evidence that he doesn't.

There is none for either. Both are assumptions, one more in line than the other.

 

[Confluctor]

I get the hesitancy to scale across alternate realities, but I strongly feel that in this situation, the evidence should outweigh that hesitancy.

Or, hear me out, we scale him to his own feats? Hmm. How does that sound.

 

[Antvasima]

I am pretty sure that Jason Aaron was only thinking in terms of the lower multiverse of alternative universes, not all of the higher dimensions, so even if we would have considered an email reply as valid in-continuity information, somewhat affecting all of them at once would only be comparable to Hulk's old Crossroads Dimension feat of creating an earthquake across infinite universes, which is just High 3-A.

Anyway, can somebody remind me what we currently need to do here please, as well as what has been accepted by our staff so far?

 

[ObberGobb]

If it was affecting Earth-616 as well as Earth-14412, and 14412 is simply a possible future of 616, doesn't that mean that their battle was affecting the 4th dimension, and as such was 2-A? And can I have a specific example of a future version of a character becoming far weaker?

 

[Confluctor]

Affecting 616? Can I see scans for that? I can't remember their effects reaching to other realities. If so, then that would be 2A possibly low 1C by itself. Much better than some weird scaling to Odin

 

[Legion350]

I mean Old King Thor has had the Odin force longer than his father, which should count for something right?

 

[Confluctor]

Having it for longer doesn't equal as powerful. Again, he has his own feats which are much higher apparently, so we should just use that.

 

[ObberGobb]

Affecting 616? Can I see scans for that? I can't remember their effects reaching to other realities. If so, then that would be 2A possibly low 1C by itself. Much better than some weird scaling to Odin

Jason Aaron said it was affecting 616 in the email where he said it was happening on a Universal scale. And I am moreso proposing upscaling OKT from Odinforce Thor, since there is no reason to believe he got weaker.

 

[Confluctor]

Jason Aaron said it was affecting 616 in the email where he said it was happening on a Universal scale. And I am moreso proposing upscaling OKT from Odinforce Thor, since there is no reason to believe he got weaker.

Comic scans please. We don't even use handbook for the simplist ability and you want to use an email - which can very easily be faked - to justify something this high...

Use their own in canon feats, please. The scaling and stuff is a mess as it is already, we need to fix it rather than make it worse.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, can somebody remind me what we currently need to do here please, as well as what has been accepted by our staff so far?

So about this...

Comic scans please. We don't even use handbook for the simplist ability and you want to use an email - which can very easily be faked - to justify something this high...

Agreed.

Use their own in canon feats, please. The scaling and stuff is a mess as it is already, we need to fix it rather than make it worse.

I am not sure what our policy regarding scaling should be when an alternative future timeline character has interacted as much with the main timeline as Old King Thor has.

 

[Confluctor]

I am not sure what our policy regarding scaling should be when an alternative future timeline character has interacted as much with the main timeline as Old King Thor has.

We don't have specific rules last I checked, but its generally frowned upon to scale alt stuff to canon. We should just scale them to their own feats

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I don't mind scaling Old King Thor to his own feats

 

[ObberGobb]

Two questions:

1. What feats are we planning on scaling OKT to, and what tier are is proposed for him?
2. Can I have a specific example of a character whose alt future versions do not line up with 616 scaling?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

1. What feats are we planning on scaling OKT to

Confluctor said that scaling OKT to the Phoenix Force is alright

 

[Confluctor]

Can I have a specific example of a character whose alt future versions do not line up with 616 scaling?

Literally all of them.

And again, you said his own feats are more impressive, just use those.

 

[ObberGobb]

I mean specifically. I just want a specific example. And I'm not disagreeing here, I just want to know exactly what feats are going to be used to scale. Is it just scaling from Phoenix Force?

 

[Antvasima]

Confluctor said that scaling OKT to the Phoenix Force is alright

That is probably fine then.

 

[ObberGobb]

So for scaling to Phoenix Force, would that make OKT "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C?"

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

So for scaling to Phoenix Force, would that make OKT "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C?"

Probably

 

[Antvasima]

I think so, yes.

 

[Confluctor]

So for scaling to Phoenix Force, would that make OKT "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C?"

Yes.

Scaling to cosmic entities like that is often fine - despite how much of a jobber phoenix usually is. But yes, 2A, possibly Low 1C works much better for OKT since he nearly beat her right?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he almost matched Wolverine with the Phoenix Force at least.

 

[Confluctor]

Oh right. And also Phoenix Doom, no?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Doom did not get the Phoenix Force, but he was comparable with skyfather Thor with a Phoenix Force power-up.

 

[ObberGobb]

Ok, I support that for OKT. And for his other two keys (Necrosword and Phoenix Force), will the tiering change at all, or will they be the same as the first key?

 

[Eseseso]

Didn't Thanos hold his own against Odin who even considered Thanos a worthy opponent?

And didn't we remove the page for Earth 14412 Doom who scaled to OKT?

What is this talk about Phoenix Doom?

 

[Confluctor]

Didn't Thanos hold his own against Odin who even considered Thanos a worthy opponent?

Relevance?

And didn't we remove the page for Earth 14412 Doom who scaled to OKT?

Yeah, so? He scales to Phoenix

What is this talk about Phoenix Doom?

Doom is irrelevant here, just here for naming sake.

 

[Eseseso]

Relevance?

If Odin-level people are getting bumped to 2-C shouldn't Thanos be bumped up too FRA?

Yeah, so? He scales to Phoenix

Doom is irrelevant here, just here for naming sake.

Got it.

 

[Confluctor]

If Odin-level people are getting bumped to 2-C shouldn't Thanos be bumped up too FRA?

Base Thanos? If so, no, he doesn't scale to Odin at peak. If you mean King Thanos, then he scales to Galactus for the lack of better scaling - can't remember his other feats tho

 

[Eseseso]

Base Thanos? If so, no, he doesn't scale to Odin at peak. If you mean King Thanos, then he scales to Galactus for the lack of better scaling - can't remember his other feats tho

Base Thanos doesn't even scale to 2-C despite holding his own against Odin?