Marvel Comics - Odin AP Revision

[Antvasima]

It seems fine to me at least, but we need further input first.

 

[Eseseso]

It seems fine to me at least, but we need further input first.

Ok for now I'll remove just the 2-A stuff.

Btw his only 2-C justification when moderately fed right now is fighting Mephisto in his own realm.], since we're removing the 2-A end for Mephisto...

Oh God, that reminds me. Since one of Dormammu's 2-A feats is the 5 2-A Hell Lords combined being weaker than him, I'll have to remove that from Dormammu's profile as well.

If possible, I can replace it with it being heavily implied (by both Doctor Strange and the narrator) that Dormammu is above the Goddess. whom was powered by the Cosmic Egg, which was made from 30 Cosmic Cubes and "far greater than the sum of its parts,

 

[Eseseso]

I just removed the 2-A stuff for MF Galactus

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would prefer if Dormammu's being stronger than the hell-lords is simply moved to a feats section instead, as it is still relevant to mention.

 

[Eseseso]

Well, I would prefer if Dormammu's being stronger than the hell-lords is simply moved to a feats section instead, as it is still relevant to mention.

Feats section is fine, but for 2-A justification the Cosmic Egg stuff is not only a good replacement but honestly far stronger stuff than him being above 5 people who even before this CRT were only possibly 2-A

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, agreed.

 

[Eseseso]

Yes, agreed.

Ok later this week I can put the Cosmic Egg stuff in but this weekend I'm visiting family so I don't have laptop access

 

[Eseseso]

Ok, now that I'm back home I can remove the Mephisto stuff from Dormammu's 2-A section and put in the Cosmic Egg stuff once the page is unlocked.

I can also add to the 2-A section the feat from the feats section currently in Dormammu's vs battles profile where:

• In an inferior body, he was able to one-shot Umar while she had the Flames of Regency, which could have prevented a singularity that would threaten all known universes.

 

[Antvasima]

Ok, now that I'm back home I can remove the Mephisto stuff from Dormammu's 2-A section and put in the Cosmic Egg stuff once the page is unlocked.

Can you provide a link to the comparison between Dormammu and the Cosmic Egg please?

I can also add to the 2-A section the feat from the feats section currently in Dormammu's vs battles profile where:

• In an inferior body, he was able to one-shot Umar while she had the Flames of Regency, which could have prevented a singularity that would threaten all known universes.

I am not sure, since it happened off-page. Couldn't it have been about preventing a chain reaction? However, since it is a supporting feat and is already listed, I suppose that it is probably fine to add.

I will unlock Dormammu's page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Eficiente]

That's in his feats section because it's not 2-A. If it was 2-A, the multiverse would already be destroyed, meaning the singularity is yet to reach that level. It's also a bit vague how it only "threatens" rather than making sure to say they will be erased, and only targets "the universes" rather than "the universes+the space between them"/multiverse.

 

[Eseseso]

Can you provide a link to the comparison between Dormammu and the Cosmic Egg please?

We already discussed this in an earlier CRT.

not only was Dormammu confident that with his powers channeled through the body of Doctor Strange, he could beat The Goddess, who was powered by the Cosmic Egg at the time, which was made from 30 Cosmic Cubes (which are all well above Celestials) and is "Far Greater than the sum of its parts", but this was also hinted to in the story by Strange himself and the story itself was implying this.

The statement on the Cosmic Egg's power was in Infinity Crusade #2, while the Dormammu stuff is in Doctor Strange Sorcerer Supreme #55

Considering that this issue takes place right after the Goddess gets the Cosmic Egg and goes inside it to get its power, I'm pretty sure that the narrative was referring to the Cosmic Egg's power.

I am not sure, since it happened off-page. Couldn't it have been about preventing a chain reaction? However, since it is a supporting feat and is already listed, I suppose that it is probably fine to add.

I will unlock Dormammu's page. Tell me here when you are done.

Got it.

That's in his feats section because it's not 2-A. If it was 2-A, the multiverse would already be destroyed, meaning the singularity is yet to reach that level. It's also a bit vague how it only "threatens" rather than making sure to say they will be erased, and only targets "the universes" rather than "the universes+the space between them"/multiverse.

Oh, ok then. I guess it could still be a supporting feat though.

 

[Eficiente]

It's good to have it in his Feats, but if it was in his AP we would be saying that it's a 2-A feat and people would take that out of the feat.

 

[Antvasima]

We already discussed this in an earlier CRT.

not only was Dormammu confident that with his powers channeled through the body of Doctor Strange, he could beat The Goddess, who was powered by the Cosmic Egg at the time, which was made from 30 Cosmic Cubes (which are all well above Celestials) and is "Far Greater than the sum of its parts", but this was also hinted to in the story by Strange himself and the story itself was implying this.

The statement on the Cosmic Egg's power was in Infinity Crusade #2, while the Dormammu stuff is in Doctor Strange Sorcerer Supreme #55

Considering that this issue takes place right after the Goddess gets the Cosmic Egg and goes inside it to get its power, I'm pretty sure that the narrative was referring to the Cosmic Egg's power.

Have you verified the full context in DSSS#55? From the single page that you linked to, it seemed to have been an illusion of some sort.

 

[Eseseso]

Have you verified the full context in DSSS#55? From the single page that you linked to, it seemed to have been an illusion of some sort.

Dormammu seemed to be clearly referring to the power of the Cosmic Egg-infused Goddess.

Besides, the comic chapter was about Strange choosing the Goddess's unknown evil over Dormammu's known evil, and even if the fight against the Goddess was an illusion, he had still seen the Goddess with the Cosmic Egg in Infinity Crusade #2, yet he still heavily implied that Dormammu's weakened power would have been enough to beat the CE-amped Goddess when his own power could not.

It's good to have it in his Feats, but if it was in his AP we would be saying that it's a 2-A feat and people would take that out of the feat.

Ok then I'll keep it there.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Antvasima]

Dormammu seemed to be clearly referring to the power of the Cosmic Egg-infused Goddess.

Besides, the comic chapter was about Strange choosing the Goddess's unknown evil over Dormammu's known evil, and even if the fight against the Goddess was an illusion, he had still seen the Goddess with the Cosmic Egg in Infinity Crusade #2, yet he still heavily implied that Dormammu's weakened power would have been enough to beat the CE-amped Goddess when his own power could not.

That was not my point. It seemed to be an illusion or false reality featuring Dormammu.

 

[Eseseso]

That was not my point. It seemed to be an illusion or false reality featuring Dormammu.

Oh, I understand.

After looking at the issue again, it turns out that it was an illusion created by Dormammu to show Strange why they needed to work together, although Dormammu was very confident that he could face the Goddess either at full power (as he was weakened at the time) or via using Strange as a conduit.

And this is despite knowing how strong she is.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but then you need to show the scans featuring the real Dormammu instead.

 

[Eseseso]

Okay, but then you need to show the scans featuring the real Dormammu instead.

Not a problem.



It seems clear that Dormammu, despite knowing well how strong Cosmic Egg Goddess is, is still confident that despite being weakened he could beat her via either using Strange as a Vessel or being at full power.

Strange even says in one of the panels that Dormammu would challenge her himself were he at full power.

 

[Antvasima]

But he said that he was too weakened to win against her without being empowered by the Dark Dimension. It is definitely implied that he thought that he could win if he was at full power though.

 

[Eseseso]

But he said that he was too weakened to win against her without being empowered by the Dark Dimension. It is definitely implied that he thought that he could win if he was at full power though.

He seemed to say that he was weakened due to the loss of his throne, but he was DEFINITELY certain he'd win at 100% power even outside his dimension and was fairly certain he'd win via channeling his powers through Strange.

 

[Eseseso]

I'll remove the Mephisto stuff (and put it in the feats section) and add the Cosmic Egg stuff to the 2-A part of Dormammu's profile.

 

[Eseseso]

I put the 2-A stuff in Dormammu's page and removed the 2-A stuff from Mephisto's page.

 

[Antvasima]

He seemed to say that he was weakened due to the loss of his throne, but he was DEFINITELY certain he'd win at 100% power even outside his dimension and was fairly certain he'd win via channeling his powers through Strange.

Okay. I suppose that is fine then.

 

[Eseseso]

So when is Odin's page gonna get revised?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that I unlocked it for editing earlier. Is somebody here willing to handle it please?

 

[Eseseso]

Well, I think that I unlocked it for editing earlier. Is somebody here willing to handle it please?

I'd do it myself but I'm not sure exactly what to put in.

 

[ObberGobb]

Maybe something like:

Varies, from Galaxy level (At his weakest, he is still portrayed as superior to the likes of Thor and Thanos), up to Multiverse level+ (Nullified Surtur’s flames that could destroy Yggdrasil, which is possibly infinite compared to the nine realms, each of which is already universal in size, exists in all the infinite planes of reality, and caused Doctor Strange to feel more magic than he had ever felt before. Although weaker, he is treated as being on a similar level as Classic Dormammu

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

At his weakest, he is still portrayed as superior to the likes of Thor and Thanos

Is he? I remember Odin at his weakest to be on a comparable level to Thor, not superior

 

[ObberGobb]

Good point, maybe that would be better phrasing

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Maybe something like:

Varies, from Galaxy level (At his weakest, he is still portrayed as superior to the likes of Thor and Thanos), up to Multiverse level+ (Nullified Surtur’s flames that could destroy Yggdrasil, which is possibly infinite compared to the nine realms, each of which is already universal in size, exists in all the infinite planes of reality, and caused Doctor Strange to feel more magic than he had ever felt before. Although weaker, he is treated as being on a similar level as Classic Dormammu

An explanation of its variable level would be missing.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe something like:

Varies, from Galaxy level (At his weakest, he is still almost consistently portrayed as superior to the likes of Thor and Thanos), up to Multiverse level+ (Nullified Surtur’s flames that could destroy Yggdrasil, which is possibly infinite compared to the nine realms, each of which is already universal in size, exists in all the infinite planes of reality, and caused Doctor Strange to feel more magic than he had ever felt before. Although weaker, he is treated as being on a similar level as Classic Dormammu

I personally think that the above text is likely fine to apply after my "almost consistently" addition.

 

[Eseseso]

Do the Celestials still scale above Odin?

I mean if not they still scale >= the watchers, and when Uatu and another watcher fought IIRC it was felt across a thousand realities.

 

[Antvasima]

They used to scale above Odin. Currently the Sentry effortlessly smashed right through them during the King in Black event, and they have largely been treated as pushovers in recent years, so I am uncertain.

 

[Eseseso]

They used to scale above Odin. Currently the Sentry effortlessly smashed right through them during the King in Black event, and they have largely been treated as pushovers in recent years, so I am uncertain.

Oh so it's like Dormammu in which we use their powerful Classic selves.

So the Classic ones still scale above Odin right?

Also Ant Man once did say Uatu was equal to Galactus so that's something.

 

[Antvasima]

Oh so it's like Dormammu in which we use their powerful Classic selves.

So the Classic ones still scale above Odin right?

Yes, but the Odin of this era was only portrayed as being able to destroy galaxies.

Also Ant Man once did say Uatu was equal to Galactus so that's something.

That doesn't seem like a good gauge at all. The Watchers were usually portrayed as weaker than both the Celestials and Galactus as far as I recall, but not overwhelmingly so.

However, Uatu was just upgraded with the powers of all the other Watchers combined.

 

[Eseseso]

Yes, but the Odin of this era was only portrayed as being able to destroy galaxies.

So the Classic Celestials are not 2-A?

However, Uatu was just upgraded with the powers of all the other Watchers combined.

?

 

[Antvasima]

So the Classic Celestials are not 2-A?

Not when first introduced, no.

?

It happened during Dan Slott's Fantastic Four run.

 

[Eseseso]

Not when first introduced, no.

So none of the Celestials are 2-A at all?

It happened during Dan Slott's Fantastic Four run.

So Uatu stays 2-A, right?

Like I said when he fought another Watcher they waged war against infinite realities and Uatu hit the other Watcher with the force of a thousand realities IIRC

 

[Antvasima]

So none of the Celestials are 2-A at all?

Well, they have fought roughly evenly with a well-fed Galactus much later.

So Uatu stays 2-A, right?

Like I said when he fought another Watcher they waged war against infinite realities and Uatu hit the other Watcher with the force of a thousand realities IIRC

I am not sure. Input from knowledgeable members here would be very appreciated.

 

[Eseseso]

Well, they have fought roughly evenly with a well-fed Galactus much later.

IIRC Galactus killed one and stomped the rest until they merged.