Marvel Comics: Low 1-A Revision (pt. I)

[Zensum]

Additionally, you're incorrectly mixing Bosonic superstring theory with Branes. They are different models of the same theory. Brane Cosmology is considerably more impressive in comparison to most other models.

I think you are misinterpreting my post. "Bosonic superstring theory" is the og string theory which is what I mentioned with "the original theory says the reason we don't see any higher dimensions is because they're small". My post isnt saying that the og brane cosmology says dimensions are small, rather that brane cosmology says nothing specific aside from "vaguely large", and also the og theory overall says they're small.

Marvel's is undeniably far more defined.

Just pointing out, that whether or not a universe is infinite isn't consistent itself. X X X

 

[TrueBK98]

Oh god, what have I missed? Ant pulled an entire line of pure stubborness and Zensum picked a line of Kep out of context and counter it with scans that have nothing to do with sentence itself.

 

[Kepekley23]

> I think you are misinterpreting my post. "Bosonic superstring theory" is the og string theory which is what I mentioned with "the original theory says the reason we don't see any higher dimensions is because they're small". My post isnt saying that the og brane cosmology says dimensions are small, rather that brane cosmology says nothing specific aside from "vaguely large", and also the og theory overall says they're small.

Contextually this isn't the case with that scan I posted - in order to highlight how impressive the Chaos Wave a feat is, it states that even the boundaries between each higher dimension will collapse, and it clarifies that it's going by Brane Cosmology here. If we were talking "average" string theory compact dimensions, it'd be kind of a "so what" description.

> Just pointing out, that whether or not a universe is infinite isn't consistent itself.

...What? That has literally nothing to do with what I was talking about in that quote, and it's wholly irrelevant to anything in this thread, considering it doesn't affect any of the Tier 2s - or 3s, for that matter.

 

[TrueBK98]

@Kepekley23

Can you explain why Ant keeps calling higher dimension "higher infinity"?

 

[Kepekley23]

Tiering System#Explanatio

 

[Zensum]

Contextually this isn't the case with that scan I posted - in order to highlight how impressive the Chaos Wave a feat is, it states that even the boundaries between each higher dimension will collapse, and it clarifies that it's going by Brane Cosmology here. If we were talking "average" string theory compact dimensions, it'd be kind of a "so what" description.

No, because again branes exist outside of brane cosmology. Branes are in all versions of string theory.

...What? That has literally nothing to do with what I was talking about in that quote, and it's wholly irrelevant to anything in this thread, considering it doesn't affect any of the Tier 2s - or 3s, for that matter.

Thats not the point, i'm showing you that basic things like size are inconsistent but w/e.

 

[Kepekley23]

> No, because again branes exist outside of brane cosmology. Branes are in all versions of string theory.

• The central idea is that the visible, three-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane inside a higher-dimensional space, called the "bulk" (also known as "hyperspace"). If the additional dimensions are compact, then the observed universe contains the extra dimension, and then no reference to the bulk is appropriate.

As highlighted by the bolded part, if the branes being talked about only encompass compact dimensions, even the visible universe would encompass them, which'd make it irrelevant for anyone to reference them as something separate (which is, in fact, true, since the 7 compact dimensions in string theory form all reality and are infinitesimal in size) from the observed universe itself. Therefore, it's only logical that the Marvel scan is using the first definition, not the one you're mentioning.

> Thats not the point, i'm showing you that basic things like size are inconsistent but w/e.

This is irrelevant to the subject.

 

[TrueBK98]

There are sure inconsistencies but that's what you have deal with if you have a franchise as big as Marvel Comics. But then again, just like the way we can have our profiles rating based on what level of power they are consistently portraited as, we can determine the cosmology based on how it's consistently portraited as.

 

[Zensum]

snip

Hyperspace isn't whats referred to as a "bulk" as it relates to brane cosmology or higher dimensions as I explained in my first post on the thread. The main issue is the evidence used to support this argument isn't telling us much. Other than you saying they are name dropped so it must mean X. The first scan is essentially just saying branes exist and this entire line of dialogue in the second scan is just throwing words out, like literal technobabble. So assuming "Therefore, it's only logical that the Marvel scan is using the first definition, not the one you're mentioning." without extra context is just extrapolation. /

 

[Kepekley23]

I just clarified that there's extra context. It's nonsensical to assume they're referring to compact dimensions a billionth of a billionth the size of a molecule in a scan that is talking about the destruction of all space and time throughout all layers of multiverse. This is basic common sense.

Anyway, this is irrelevant - read what Ultima posted here.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Ant

Since you want to see a scan that strictly defines higher dimensions as higher infinities anyway:

• The Brilliant City is at the top of spiral we can see, but there's a spectrum beyond. This is what she saw. Beings so great you are to them even less than the lowliest creature in all the spiral is to you. So great they don't even notice us.

Proof that this refers to layers of reality:

• "It's part of my job to negotiate with lower and higher dimensions such as yours. But I'm confused. I recently visited a broken world, as far as to the bottom of the Spiral as the Brilliant City is to the top."

In other words, habitants of higher dimensions/layers in Marvel view lower dimensional entities as "less than the lowliest of creatures"

 

[Antvasima]

From what I (vaguely) recall of the X-Man shaman stories, the realities that he visited were simply utopian and dystopian versions of Earth, with the higher versions more idealised, and the lower versions not. It was not higher and lower dimensions as we or science use the term, especially not higher or lower infinities. Marvel was just misusing the term "dimension" again, when the author couldn't find a more convenient word.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, if we haven't fixed the tiering system as much as I would like, and it is still only necessary to use the term "higher dimensions" in conjunction with the word "multiverse" to get outrageously high tiers, with specifications of higher infinities not necessary, my points are very unfortunately moot, although I still obviously firmly believe that it will create massively unreliable and exaggerated statistics for some franchises, Marvel included.

 

[TrueBK98]

@Ant

You got the wrong idea. What Ultima was saying is that higher dimensional entities can prove their higher dimension is a Large Extra Dimension by showing their superiority in power over lower dimensional entities or being able to destroy universe/multiverse because they come from a higher dimension. Being higher dimensional and can destroy the multiverse alone wasn't enough to prove that. You have to show that the ability to destroy the multiverse was because of the higher dimensional part.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I would still much prefer if the number/degree of higher infinities or qualitative superiorities are spelled out, but alright then.

 

[TrueBK98]

So do I but that would downplay many verse that clearly have higher dimension equal higher infinity but don't want to spell it out because it might sound like it's there just to make the verse more powerful. I not saying I'm a professional writer but I have encountered this problem a lot when I write my books.

 

[TrueBK98]

Also, I think you should take a break for a little bit because you don't seem like normal you. I'm pretty sure it's because of the nature of debating.

 

[Kepekley23]

From what I (vaguely) recall of the X-Man shaman stories, the realities that he visited were simply utopian and dystopian versions of Earth, with the higher versions more idealised, and the lower versions not. It was not higher and lower dimensions as we or science use the term, especially not higher or lower infinities. Marvel was just misusing the term "dimension" again, when the author couldn't find a more convenient word.

They are directly stated to be layered dimensions, each one conceptualizing the previous as insignificant, in the scans I posted.

Saying "they obviously aren't" and dismissing the evidence is far frm considerate.

 

[Driger-God]

From what I (vaguely) recall of the X-Man shaman stories, the realities that he visited were simply utopian and dystopian versions of Earth, with the higher versions more idealised, and the lower versions not. It was not higher and lower dimensions as we or science use the term, especially not higher or lower infinities. Marvel was just misusing the term "dimension" again, when the author couldn't find a more convenient word.

Nate explain that exist "Earth" Highs and Bellow, Brilliant City is an "Earth High", ahigher dimension . Brilliant City is an timeless realm, even concepts like space and time are insignificant in Brilliant City.
And in scan that Kep posted, is shown an relation betweehigher and lower dimensional beings.

And, with scans like transfinite levels(levels of infinites), and divine realms, is evident that higher dimensions are infinite higher that lower.

 

[Antvasima]

They are directly stated to be layered dimensions, each one conceptualizing the previous as insignificant, in the scans I posted.

Saying "they obviously aren't" and dismissing the evidence is far frm considerate.

I don't mean to be inconsiderate, and don't remember using that phrase. I am just saying that from what I vaguely recall from the context of the larger X-Man story itself, he was visiting utopian and dystopian versions of the Earth that had different rankings, but were still 3-dimensional. It has been a long time since I read it, so I may misremember though. Is somebody willing to check it up?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I think you should take a break for a little bit because you don't seem like normal you. I'm pretty sure it's because of the nature of debating.

I recurrently get stressed out from prolonged arguing if I am juggling many other tasks at the same time. That said, I have tried to be polite in my responses above.

 

[Antvasima]

Nate explain that exist "Earth" Highs and Bellow, Brilliant City is an "Earth High", ahigher dimension . Brilliant City is an timeless realm, even concepts like space and time are insignificant in Brilliant City.
And in scan that Kep posted, is shown an relation betweehigher and lower dimensional beings.

And, with scans like transfinite levels(levels of infinites), and divine realms, is evident that higher dimensions are infinite higher that lower.

Thank you, but all that the scans above seem to say is that there not only exist parallel universes, but that they are ordered from more to less powerful as well. Qabiri is certainly not presented as several degrees of infinity more powerful than Nate Grey/X-Man just because he is from a higher version of Earth.

 

[Kepekley23]

Once again, it was directly stated to be the case for the Brilliant City above.

 

[Antvasima]

But the alternate Earths are also called parallel universes in Driger's scans. They are not treated as true higher dimensions in the geometrical sense.

 

[Kepekley23]

Which is irrelevant, since higher dimensions here are analogous to higher layers of reality, which this is.

 

[Antvasima]

I found the story in question. It is X-Man #67-74 from the year 2000 or so. You can read them to confirm for yourself that these are parallel universes:

https://***************.to/Comic/X-Man/Issue-67?id=60486

 

[Kepekley23]

I read it. Once more:

• * The Brilliant City is at the top of spiral we can see, but there's a spectrum beyond. This is what she saw. Beings so great you are to them even less than the lowliest creature in all the spiral is to you. So great they don't even notice us.

I really do not care about how they visually portray the worlds in the spiral. The cosmic beings in the Brilliant City especially are blatantly described on higher layer terms here. This much is unarguable.

There's really not much to debate with a scan as blatant as this, and this is independent to whether each world in the spiral visualizes the other as insignificant or not.

 

[Antvasima]

They are stated outright to be another way to describe parallel universes, as you can see in Driger's scans above. They are simply ordered from more utopian and powerful to less so. I would greatly appreciate if you could please read them and reconsider.

The beings shown in your scan are clearly of a higher order of infinity, but the citizens of Qabiri's world are not.

 

[Kepekley23]

As I said, whether these worlds are higher layers or not is irrelevant. Brilliant City onwards is blatantly treated as such.

 

[Antvasima]

"On your Earth, it's called parallels. A sequence of Earths stretched across existence, all unaware of each other. Others call it the tree of worlds, or the corridor."

"There are parallel Earths, strung along a spiral from one end of reality to the other. Our Earth is a median world. At one extreme are the broken Earths, ruined worlds where creation went astray. On the other end is the Brilliant City."

If the regular Marvel Universe is a mid-level world in the hierarchy, everybody within it should be at least 1-B if we went by genuine higher order of reality logic.

 

[Kepekley23]

Ant. Please read my posts.

 

[TrueBK98]

Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the scans seem to represented the structure of the omniverse/multiverse via a smaller scale version of it. The spriral is made out of parallel universes, not higher dimensions. But it did show that the omniverse is made of higher infinities on top of each other.

 

[Antvasima]

Look, I obviously agree about that the cosmic entities shown at the end reside in a genuinely higher order of reality, just not that the parallel Earths qualify just because they have an extremely advanced and powerful civilisation. I really don't get why my interpretation is not considered reasonable by you.

 

[TrueBK98]

Oh, so what you're saying is from the Brilliant City onwards is higher dimensions, right?

 

[Kepekley23]

Ant, I said that multiple times in this thread. Multiple times.

 

[TrueBK98]

It seems like the way it was phrase confused both me and Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think that the Brilliant City is an infinitely higher order of reality, just an incredibly advanced civilisation where nobody ages and everybody are extremely powerful.

 

[Antvasima]

Ant, I said that multiple times in this thread. Multiple times.

Well, my apologies if I have misunderstood something. I am constantly juggling multiple tasks, so it is hard to keep track of the precise details.

 

[TrueBK98]

Well, it did say that Brilliant City is a timeless realm where concepts like space and time are barely exist.

 

[Antvasima]

That simply refers to that society has evolved to a point where nobody ages, everything is perfect and unchanging, and they can easily travel almost anywhere. It is metaphor, not to be taken absolutely literally.