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Marvel Comics - 5-B Scaling Upgrade

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So should we upgrade all of our current High 6-C Marvel Comics characters to 5-B instead then? Or should some of them get a lower tier, and if so, what should we base it on?
 
That's what I support. I'm pretty sure every High 6-C character scales back to one of the characters with a 5-B feat.
 
Yes, but most of them going all out have personal measurable feats of a far lower level, and Marvel still runs on everybody can fight everybody.
 
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Is there a list of High 6-C characters anywhere? I think many of them (Namor, Thing, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, etc.) have been shown to be on this level enough to warrant 5-B, but some more minor characters may not be.
 
Like, are there character that are just barely on this level via scaling to only one other character?

Characters like those I mentioned have shown to be able to consistently fight characters of this level, and are even capable of defeating them. To me, that seems like enough to scale them to 5-B even if they personally don't have Tier 5 feats. And I think there are enough 5-B feats and statements to warrant that being the "Low Herald" tier rather than High 6-C.

But if there are others whose only feat is like staggering a character of this tier, I'd be fine with them not being allowed to scale to that level.
 
ObberGobb said:
Is there a list of High 6-C characters anywhere? I think many of them (Namor, Thing, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, etc.) have been shown to be on this level enough to warrant 5-B, but some more minor characters may not be.
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I don't have access to my computer but you can check it like this;

Write the following code in the source editor of a sandbox and it should do the trick.

<dpl>
Category = Marvel Comics
Category= Tier High 6-C
<dpl/>
 
ObberGobb said:
Like, are there character that are just barely on this level via scaling to only one other character?
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Probably a few, but it's kinda hard to gauge without further research. Tho fixing the scaling chain - as in breaking it apart right now Is extremely complicated to solve imo and would require a lot more research and time.

Kinda disappointing since most of them don't have other non scaling feats listed and hard to find respect threads.

Honestly I think in the future, should note as many feats as possible in the ap/durability section. I have been doing it for my files, they do become longer but makes this sort of stuff so much easier.
 
That being said, there is one thing about the scaling I want to change: Model 29 Iron Man should be flat High 6-C (Or I guess, 5-B) instead of "likely", and by extension so should Bleeding Edge. Apart from him being equal to Doom being pretty clear-cut, he can match/defeat his rogue armors, which were beating up characters like Carol, She-Hulk, Namor, etc. That whole arc pretty clearly portrays him as being at least comparable, and probably superior, to all of them. But if we don't want to worry about scaling chain changes that's fine as well.
 
I definitely agree that we need to re-analyze our High 6-C/5-B scaling chain, it’s just not the easiest thing to do since Marvel’s been going for, what, 80 years now? And since they don’t do reboots like DC, some characters get into the range of 1,000+ appearances and it’s nearly impossible to revise them.
 
ObberGobb said:
That being said, there is one thing about the scaling I want to change: Model 29 Iron Man should be flat High 6-C (Or I guess, 5-B) instead of "likely", and by extension so should Bleeding Edge. Apart from him being equal to Doom being pretty clear-cut, he can match/defeat his rogue armors, which were beating up characters like Carol, She-Hulk, Namor, etc. That whole arc pretty clearly portrays him as being at least comparable, and probably superior, to all of them. But if we don't want to worry about scaling chain changes that's fine as well.
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Yeah, I am 100% in agreement with this, I can pull up the scans and references of Extremis and Bleeding Edge’s feats in a little while.
 
Here’s the feats for Extremis:
 
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Well, I suppose that seems like sufficient solid evidence for a rather consistent pattern.
 
Antvasima said:
We would greatly appreciate if you explain yourself here please.
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I have not read the rest of the thread, so apologies if this has already been addressed.

This High 6-C calc has one definite issue and one potential issue;

Firstly, the statement is just that the earthquake registered on seismographs in California. Seismographs can detect earthquakes with magnitudes of less than 2, yet the calc assumes magnitude 4 is felt in California. Given the statement, I think mag 1 or 2 is more reasonable, which would downgrade the feat to 7-B (3.36e16 joules) or 7-A (1.06e18 joules).

Secondly, the calc uses the "other" method for earthquake calculations, but given that the feat comes from someone being smacked into the planet at high speeds, the meteor impact formula may be more fitting. Using magnitude 2, this would downgrade the feat to High 7-C (7.27e14 joules).

EDIT: I think I did my math wrong with the last thing, it seems like meteor impact should upgrade the feat actually? I'm confused so I'm gonna think about it for a bit.

EDIT 2: Alright, back with double-checked math. If meteor impact is better, the feat will now land at 6-C+ (mag 1, 2.6878e20 joules) or Low 6-B (mag 2, 8.3549e21 joules), potentially upgrading it, but still changing the tier.
 
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Okay. Thank you for helping out. What do the rest of you think that we should do here?
 
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That calc doesn’t really scale to anyone except the Mandarin (who performed the feat) and Fin Fang Foom (and honestly, the justification it uses to scale to him is very poor), so it doesn’t really affect this revision at all.
 
Well, we seem to have agreed to upgrade many or even most of the tier High 6-C characters to 5-B instead, but need to include all the reasonably reliable feats that we know of in the relevant character profile pages in order to properly justify this change, as well as decide which characters that should be included.

Also, I think that the regular/"sensational" version of She-Hulk should get an "far higher when sufficiently enraged" mention after all of her 5-B statistics.
 
Here’s all the feats/statements we have afaik, we just need to find the references for all of them.

The Thing survives an attack that can split a planet in half: Low 5-B (1.21 zettatons)
Hyperion and Gladiator can pulverize planets: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Gilgamesh can lift the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
The Champion of the Universe is stated to be a planet buster, twice: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
616 Hyperion can destroy the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Grey Hulk destroys an asteroid: 5-B (1.2 yottatons)
 
Pulverizing the planet, lifting it, and destroying it all give the exact same energy value?
 
Agnaa said:
Pulverizing the planet, lifting it, and destroying it all give the exact same energy value?
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I can’t find the calc for Gilgamesh’s statement unfortunately, but I recall it being baseline 5-B. And the pulverizing the planet statement likely isn’t literally pulverizing, just another word for destroying it.
 
Here is the Iron Man feat I mentioned earlier. Iron Man activates Sol's Hammer, a weapon he made specifically to destroy planets. He seems to imply that it is fully charged, which is impressive as at 0.008% power it could destroy a moon, and at 2% power it could destroy a planet. The weapon covers a pretty significant portion of the Sun, and is completely destroyed by the explosion. Do you think this could be used as support?
 
LordTracer said:
Here’s all the feats/statements we have afaik, we just need to find the references for all of them.

The Thing survives an attack that can split a planet in half: Low 5-B (1.21 zettatons)
Hyperion and Gladiator can pulverize planets: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Gilgamesh can lift the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
The Champion of the Universe is stated to be a planet buster, twice: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
616 Hyperion can destroy the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Grey Hulk destroys an asteroid: 5-B (1.2 yottatons)
Click to expand...
Thank you. That seems fine to me at least then, but do we need to place any Marvel Comics characters in-between tiers High 8-C and 5-B, as it is a quite big jump?
 
Antvasima said:
Well, we seem to have agreed to upgrade many or even most of the tier High 6-C characters to 5-B instead, but need to include all the reasonably reliable feats that we know of in the relevant character profile pages in order to properly justify this change, as well as decide which characters that should be included.

Also, I think that the regular/"sensational" version of She-Hulk should get an "far higher when sufficiently enraged" mention after all of her 5-B statistics.
Click to expand...
LordTracer said:
Here’s all the feats/statements we have afaik, we just need to find the references for all of them.

The Thing survives an attack that can split a planet in half: Low 5-B (1.21 zettatons)
Hyperion and Gladiator can pulverize planets: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Gilgamesh can lift the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
The Champion of the Universe is stated to be a planet buster, twice: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
616 Hyperion can destroy the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Grey Hulk destroys an asteroid: 5-B (1.2 yottatons)
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Thank you. That seems fine to me at least then, but do we need to place any Marvel Comics characters in-between tiers High 8-C and 5-B, as it is a quite big jump?
Click to expand...
@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Alonik @Gasper @Chariot190 @Confluctor

Your help would be appreciated with creating schematic outlines for which characters that should be updated, and whether any of them should be place in-between High 8-C and 5-B, and which accepted calculation that we should base it on in that case.
 
I may have missed something, but according to the sandbox linked in the OP, some characters will scale to 6-B, and two will still scale to High 6-C. And according to the Marvel verse page, some characters currently sit in 8-B, Low 7-C, and Low 7-B.
 
Agnaa said:
I may have missed something, but according to the sandbox linked in the OP, some characters will scale to 6-B, and two will still scale to High 6-C. And according to the Marvel verse page, some characters currently sit in 8-B, Low 7-C, and Low 7-B.
Click to expand...
Okay. We need to figure out proper solutions here then.
 
Agnaa said:
I may have missed something, but according to the sandbox linked in the OP, some characters will scale to 6-B, and two will still scale to High 6-C. And according to the Marvel verse page, some characters currently sit in 8-B, Low 7-C, and Low 7-B.
Click to expand...
The OP is really old and outdated, everyone who would scale to 6-B (i.e. Doctor Doom, the Thing, etc) will be 5-B, the only remaining High 6-Cs would be Mandarin and Fin Fang Foom, and there’s a handful of Low 7-B+ and 7-B characters.
 
Antvasima said:
That might work then.

Here they are: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Antvasima/DPL#Marvel_Tier_7
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Iron Man Armor Model 16
Horseman of Death Gambit
Classic Carol Danvers
Rogue w/ Ms. Marvel’s powers
Iron Patriot
Taskmaster w/ optional equipment
Iron Man Armor Model 20
War Machine Armor Model 2
War Machine Armor Model 4
All-New Whiplash
Polaris

This is everyone that scales to Iron Man’s calc. Vision (Jonas) and Iron Lad scale to Extremis, so they’ll become 5-B, and the others just scale to city busting statements.
 
LordTracer said:
The OP is really old and outdated, everyone who would scale to 6-B (i.e. Doctor Doom, the Thing, etc) will be 5-B, the only remaining High 6-Cs would be Mandarin and Fin Fang Foom, and there’s a handful of Low 7-B+ and 7-B characters.
Click to expand...
LordTracer said:
Iron Man Armor Model 16
Horseman of Death Gambit
Classic Carol Danvers
Rogue w/ Ms. Marvel’s powers
Iron Patriot
Taskmaster w/ optional equipment
Iron Man Armor Model 20
War Machine Armor Model 2
War Machine Armor Model 4
All-New Whiplash
Polaris

This is everyone that scales to Iron Man’s calc. Vision (Jonas) and Iron Lad scale to Extremis, so they’ll become 5-B, and the others just scale to city busting statements.
Click to expand...
Okay. That is probably fine then, but I would prefer input from @Confluctor and others.
 
LordTracer said:
Here’s all the feats/statements we have afaik, we just need to find the references for all of them.

The Thing survives an attack that can split a planet in half: Low 5-B (1.21 zettatons)
Hyperion and Gladiator can pulverize planets: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Gilgamesh can lift the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
The Champion of the Universe is stated to be a planet buster, twice: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
616 Hyperion can destroy the Earth: 5-B (59.44 zettatons)
Grey Hulk destroys an asteroid: 5-B (1.2 yottatons)
Click to expand...
Refs are easy, can do that after my vacation.

The Hyperion (both) one can be found on my Hyperion feats timeline which can be found at the bottom of all comic Hyperion files.

Gilgamesh is from Thor annual iirc or 280-somethong.

Antvasima said:
Okay. That is probably fine then, but I would prefer input from @Confluctor and others.
Click to expand...
I can get behind that. I am slightly iffy on classic carol - where exactly do we draw the line?
 
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