Mario vs Chara

[Omegabronic]

That's for the sake of a fun boss fight. It was only allowed to power null the thing that allowed the player to beat the boss, but not the stuff that would make the boss a cake walk.

what is the evidence for the pure hearts to null everything anyway? was it ever shown or stated to have this capability?

 

[ShionAH]

what is the evidence for the pure hearts to null everything anyway? was it ever shown or stated to have this capability?

Would that be NLF?

 

[Sans2345]

Incon FRA, Mario can't really do anything to Chara with SAVE and LOAD.

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Incon FRA

 

[ShionAH]

also would this work? Possession (Takes control of frisk at the end of the genocide route after meeting asgore. Will take control of frisk if you do True Pacifist after a Genocide run

 

[Da3ggman]

Would that be NLF?

what is the evidence for the pure hearts to null everything anyway? was it ever shown or stated to have this capability?

No. A NLF would be if I said that it can null SCP-682's adaptation. It has not shown the capacity to effect 1-A abilities, so it would be a no limits fallacy to assume that it would null his adaptation. Power Null is assumed to work on everything at it's tier and below, unless stated otherwise or the person being power nulled has a resistance to it. Chara's SAVE/LOAD works on a 2-B level, and the Pure Hearts work on a 2-B level, so it can Power Null.

 

[Omegabronic]

It has not shown the capacity to effect 1-A abilities, so it would be a no limits fallacy to assume that it would null his adaptation. Power Null is assumed to work on everything at it's tier and below, unless stated otherwise or the person being power nulled has a resistance to it. Chara's SAVE/LOAD works on a 2-B level, and the Pure Hearts work on a 2-B level, so it can Power Null.

in this case it is shown otherwise since it didn't power nulled dimentio's other powers and abilities

 

[Ego]

Still Mario fra

 

[ShionAH]

Still Mario fra

 

[Ego]

 

[ShionAH]

Right now its a stomp I think since OP didn't restrict AE. If he removes it then we just have to think which is more likely Chara killing mario or possessing him if its possible or mario null SAVE and LOAD which might not work since it has never shown to null anything other than invulnerability but not sure

 

[Ikelaggan]

Right now its a stomp I think since OP didn't restrict AE. If he removes it then we just have to think which is more likely Chara killing mario or possessing him if its possible or mario null SAVE and LOAD which might not work since it has never shown to null anything other than invulnerability but not sure

I'm dropping this thread in a heartbeat, the OP isn't likely to change anything in the rules any further.

 

[Da3ggman]

in this case it is shown otherwise since it didn't power nulled dimentio's other powers and abilities

Again, there isn't any lore reason they weren't able to do it. So, it's likely that Nintendo didn't allow the Pure Hearts to Power Null all of Dimentio's abilities in order to have a boss battle. It would be treated as PIS.

 

[ShionAH]

I'm dropping this thread in a heartbeat, the OP isn't likely to change anything in the rules any further.

Same tbh I also feel like its kind of a mismatch

 

[Omegabronic]

Again, there isn't any lore reason they weren't able to do it. So, it's likely that Nintendo didn't allow the Pure Hearts to Power Null all of Dimentio's abilities in order to have a boss battle. It would be treated as PIS.

you would need proof that they are capable of power null everything first to make this argument tho, because when the said "pis" is the only shown of their power, then it isn't pis and just a limitation of the hax

 

[Ego]

I'm dropping this thread in a heartbeat, the OP isn't likely to change anything in the rules any further.

Me too
He doesn't even remove AE to make it interesting

 

[ShionAH]

Right now it is a stomp for chara because AE 1 but if he removes it this might be more intresting because I don't see why chara wont be able to possess mario

 

[Da3ggman]

you would need proof that they are capable of power null everything first to make this argument tho, because when the said "pis" is the only shown of their power, then it isn't pis and just a limitation of the hax

No you wouldn't, that's not how Power Null works.
Straight from the Power Nullification page
"It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects."
Since both abilities being nullified are on the same level, Mario would be able to Power Null SAVE/LOAD.

 

[Omegabronic]

No you wouldn't, that's not how Power Null works.
Straight from the Power Nullification page
"It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects."
Since both abilities being nullified are on the same level, Mario would be able to Power Null SAVE/LOAD.

and that is why we can only assume that it nulls invulnerability and nothing else, since the only thing it shows nulling is the invulnerability while all the other abilities are intact

 

[ShionAH]

I think this can be discussed in a CRT for Marios powernull

 

[Da3ggman]

and that is why we can only assume that it nulls invulnerability and nothing else, since the only thing it shows nulling is the invulnerability while all the other abilities are intact

Then make a CRT. it's just regular Power Null on Mario's profile, so it will be treated as if it can Null every ability up to 2-B.

 

[Dragonite007]

Then make a CRT. it's just regular Power Null on Mario's profile, so it will be treated as if it can Null every ability up to 2-B.

Actually, a powernull can only negate an ability it's shown to negate.
Example: I can powernull Reality Manipulation, but that doesn't mean I can nullify Time Manipulation or Soul Hax

 

[Da3ggman]

Actually, a powernull can only negate an ability it's shown to negate.

That's not what it says on the profile. The profile states that "It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified." You don't need to prove that a Power Nullification works on a certain ability, so long as that ability falls under its tier of effect. Since both Dimentio's invincibility and Chara's SAVE/LOAD fall under 2-B, we assume Mario can power null.

 

[Dragonite007]

That's not what it says on the profile. The profile states that "It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified." You don't need to prove that a Power Nullification works on a certain ability, so long as that ability falls under its tier of effect. Since both Dimentio's invincibility and Chara's SAVE/LOAD fall under 2-B, we assume Mario can power null.

You forget this part:
"It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter"

By the way, a note from a CRT, about power nullification:
"Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed"

Unless Mario has been demonstrated to nullify Time Manipulation or something similar to reset, he cannot negate Chara.

 

[Dragonite007]

That's not what it says on the profile. The profile states that "It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified." You don't need to prove that a Power Nullification works on a certain ability, so long as that ability falls under its tier of effect. Since both Dimentio's invincibility and Chara's SAVE/LOAD fall under 2-B, we assume Mario can power null.

And from what they were talking about, Mario Power null just negates invulnerability

 

[Dragonite007]

Why are we still arguing? Mario can't interact with AE1, and the OP doesn't seem like he's going to do anything about it

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I suggest just making a new thread if the OP doesn't care enough to change the rules.

 

[Dragonite007]

I suggest just making a new thread if the OP doesn't care enough to change the rules.

Nah, Mario has a lot of fame, let's do it with Luigi

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Nah, Mario has a lot of fame, let's do it with Luigi

 

[Dragonite007]

Luigi >>>>>>>> Mario

 

[Da3ggman]

You forget this part:
"It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter"

It is talking about something nullifying an ability that is of a higher scale than what it has shown.

By the way, a note from a CRT, about power nullification:
"Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed"
Unless Mario has been demonstrated to nullify Time Manipulation or something similar to reset, he cannot negate Chara.

Could you link the CRT?

 

[Dragonite007]

Here

To simplify: They wanted to put a note that Lihiko could only nullify what he showed to nullify, but PaChi2 counters by saying that the note is useless, because that's something every powernull user has

It would be NLF say the Mario Power can negate every abilitie under 2-B, or will going to argue that Mario can Power nullification Conceptual Manipulation?

 

[Dragonite007]

And again Chara has AE1, Mario can't interact with her

 

[Da3ggman]

Here

To simplify: They wanted to put a note that Lihiko could only nullify what he showed to nullify, but PaChi2 counters by saying that the note is useless, because that's something every powernull user has

Weird, I could have sworn that's how Power Null is treated on the website. Ah well, might just be my shitty memory and misinterpreting the page.

And again Chara has AE1, Mario can't interact with her

Agreed.

 

[Dragonite007]

Weird, I could have sworn that's how Power Null is treated on the website. Ah well, might just be my shitty memory and misinterpreting the page.

(If it were up to me: Powernull users could undo anything and copy users would be able to copy anything)

 

[Da3ggman]

copy users would be able to copy anything

Garou FRA

 

[ShionAH]

Mario: I will defeat undertale!



Sonic:

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Mario: I will defeat undertale!



Sonic:

Asriel approaching Kirby with his Soul Absorption

 

[ShionAH]

Asriel approaching Kirby with his Soul Absorption

(Imagine Rigby as Asriel, Mordecai as Kirby, Benson as Gooey)

 

[Iiliminal]

chara fra