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Mario vs Chara

Da3ggman said:
That's for the sake of a fun boss fight. It was only allowed to power null the thing that allowed the player to beat the boss, but not the stuff that would make the boss a cake walk.
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what is the evidence for the pure hearts to null everything anyway? was it ever shown or stated to have this capability?
 
also would this work? Possession (Takes control of frisk at the end of the genocide route after meeting asgore. Will take control of frisk if you do True Pacifist after a Genocide run
 
TheKillerYT said:
Would that be NLF?
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omegabronic said:
what is the evidence for the pure hearts to null everything anyway? was it ever shown or stated to have this capability?
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No. A NLF would be if I said that it can null SCP-682's adaptation. It has not shown the capacity to effect 1-A abilities, so it would be a no limits fallacy to assume that it would null his adaptation. Power Null is assumed to work on everything at it's tier and below, unless stated otherwise or the person being power nulled has a resistance to it. Chara's SAVE/LOAD works on a 2-B level, and the Pure Hearts work on a 2-B level, so it can Power Null.
 
Da3ggman said:
It has not shown the capacity to effect 1-A abilities, so it would be a no limits fallacy to assume that it would null his adaptation. Power Null is assumed to work on everything at it's tier and below, unless stated otherwise or the person being power nulled has a resistance to it. Chara's SAVE/LOAD works on a 2-B level, and the Pure Hearts work on a 2-B level, so it can Power Null.
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in this case it is shown otherwise since it didn't power nulled dimentio's other powers and abilities
 
Right now its a stomp I think since OP didn't restrict AE. If he removes it then we just have to think which is more likely Chara killing mario or possessing him if its possible or mario null SAVE and LOAD which might not work since it has never shown to null anything other than invulnerability but not sure
 
TheKillerYT said:
Right now its a stomp I think since OP didn't restrict AE. If he removes it then we just have to think which is more likely Chara killing mario or possessing him if its possible or mario null SAVE and LOAD which might not work since it has never shown to null anything other than invulnerability but not sure
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I'm dropping this thread in a heartbeat, the OP isn't likely to change anything in the rules any further.
 
omegabronic said:
in this case it is shown otherwise since it didn't power nulled dimentio's other powers and abilities
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Again, there isn't any lore reason they weren't able to do it. So, it's likely that Nintendo didn't allow the Pure Hearts to Power Null all of Dimentio's abilities in order to have a boss battle. It would be treated as PIS.
 
Da3ggman said:
Again, there isn't any lore reason they weren't able to do it. So, it's likely that Nintendo didn't allow the Pure Hearts to Power Null all of Dimentio's abilities in order to have a boss battle. It would be treated as PIS.
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you would need proof that they are capable of power null everything first to make this argument tho, because when the said "pis" is the only shown of their power, then it isn't pis and just a limitation of the hax
 
Right now it is a stomp for chara because AE 1 but if he removes it this might be more intresting because I don't see why chara wont be able to possess mario
 
omegabronic said:
you would need proof that they are capable of power null everything first to make this argument tho, because when the said "pis" is the only shown of their power, then it isn't pis and just a limitation of the hax
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No you wouldn't, that's not how Power Null works.
Straight from the Power Nullification page
"It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects."
Since both abilities being nullified are on the same level, Mario would be able to Power Null SAVE/LOAD.
 
Da3ggman said:
No you wouldn't, that's not how Power Null works.
Straight from the Power Nullification page
"It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects."
Since both abilities being nullified are on the same level, Mario would be able to Power Null SAVE/LOAD.
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and that is why we can only assume that it nulls invulnerability and nothing else, since the only thing it shows nulling is the invulnerability while all the other abilities are intact
 
omegabronic said:
and that is why we can only assume that it nulls invulnerability and nothing else, since the only thing it shows nulling is the invulnerability while all the other abilities are intact
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Then make a CRT. it's just regular Power Null on Mario's profile, so it will be treated as if it can Null every ability up to 2-B.
 
Da3ggman said:
Then make a CRT. it's just regular Power Null on Mario's profile, so it will be treated as if it can Null every ability up to 2-B.
Click to expand...
Actually, a powernull can only negate an ability it's shown to negate.
Example: I can powernull Reality Manipulation, but that doesn't mean I can nullify Time Manipulation or Soul Hax
 
Dragonite007 said:
Actually, a powernull can only negate an ability it's shown to negate.
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That's not what it says on the profile. The profile states that "It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified." You don't need to prove that a Power Nullification works on a certain ability, so long as that ability falls under its tier of effect. Since both Dimentio's invincibility and Chara's SAVE/LOAD fall under 2-B, we assume Mario can power null.
 
Da3ggman said:
That's not what it says on the profile. The profile states that "It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified." You don't need to prove that a Power Nullification works on a certain ability, so long as that ability falls under its tier of effect. Since both Dimentio's invincibility and Chara's SAVE/LOAD fall under 2-B, we assume Mario can power null.
Click to expand...
You forget this part:
"It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter"

By the way, a note from a CRT, about power nullification:
"Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed"

Unless Mario has been demonstrated to nullify Time Manipulation or something similar to reset, he cannot negate Chara.
 
Da3ggman said:
That's not what it says on the profile. The profile states that "It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified." You don't need to prove that a Power Nullification works on a certain ability, so long as that ability falls under its tier of effect. Since both Dimentio's invincibility and Chara's SAVE/LOAD fall under 2-B, we assume Mario can power null.
Click to expand...
And from what they were talking about, Mario Power null just negates invulnerability
 
Dragonite007 said:
Nah, Mario has a lot of fame, let's do it with Luigi
Click to expand...
FmVAxqtXEAIClRZ.png
 
Dragonite007 said:
You forget this part:
"It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter"
Click to expand...
It is talking about something nullifying an ability that is of a higher scale than what it has shown.
Dragonite007 said:
By the way, a note from a CRT, about power nullification:
"Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed"
Unless Mario has been demonstrated to nullify Time Manipulation or something similar to reset, he cannot negate Chara.
Click to expand...
Could you link the CRT?
 
Da3ggman said:
Weird, I could have sworn that's how Power Null is treated on the website. Ah well, might just be my shitty memory and misinterpreting the page.
Click to expand...
(If it were up to me: Powernull users could undo anything and copy users would be able to copy anything)
 
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