• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Maou Gakuin Source/ Root Type 1 Concept: Round 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes sure someone does not agree with us, what do we do? let us be hostile.

Anyway I stopped caring about this thread since we are not seeing eye to eye on things and I will not like for things to go around in circles any longer.
Also the type 3 CM thread got passed too. So there is that
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Take your ass opinion and gtfo my thread, you're either blind, incapable of simple understanding or have such a myopic outlook on something you can only ever see yourself as right
Click to expand...
Regardless of your disagreements on the matter, cool down and keep things civil. Consider this an official warning.
 
PrinceofPein said:
Yes sure someone does not agree with us, what do we do? let us be hostile.
Click to expand...
Unlike you glass is clearly biased and from experience he is unable to change his viewpoint on something going so far as to deny that Fire Dew governs reality despite several scans. You on the other hand have actually acknowledged what's presented and asking for something specific.
PrinceofPein said:
Also the type 3 CM thread got passed too. So there is that
Click to expand...
Which is meaningless if this one gets passed.
PrinceofPein said:
Anyway I stopped caring about this thread since we are not seeing eye to eye on things and I will not like for things to go around in circles any longer.
Click to expand...
Please do a brother a solid and check out the last set of scans i sent 🙏🏾. Promise not to bother you again after that.
Planck69 said:
Regardless of your disagreements on the matter, cool down and keep things civil. Consider this an official warning.
Click to expand...
I am cool proof being that this thread is just barely 2 pages. Glass is outright denying and turning a blind eye to evidence presented. I mean just look at his statements
Theglassman12 said:
Not the same as the concept of an individual
Click to expand...
That was his reply to a statement that blatantly said "Fire Dew is the Source on Earth"
Theglassman12 said:
Not only that but nothing about the source is remotely implied to have an effect on all of reality, nor does it predate reality or can exist when reality ceases to exist.
Click to expand...
That was his reply after several scans showing that the loss of Fire Dew causes the destruction of reality.
Fire Dew existed even before the God of Creation that'll create the world and he says it doesn't predate reality.
It simply flows to another world/ just remains in the silver sea regardless of the destruction of the original world it came from and he says that it cannot exist when reality ceases to exist.
Planck it doesn't take a genius to see the obvious bias and denial of evidence on glass part here.
 
@Tatsumi504 Everything you've replied to with information about Fire Dew is met with him saying that the Sources of individuals has no such feats. And he is objectively correct.

Now, does that mean that the comparison with Fire Dew can or can't work as proof of Type 1? No. But saying he's biased for disagreeing with you is a silly leap in logic.
 
Planck69 said:
Everything you've replied to with information about Fire Dew is met with him saying that the Sources of individuals has no such feats. And he is objectively correct.
Click to expand...
And scans that say Fire Dew is the source have been presented. Some even mentioned the Fire Dew of Specific individuals. He is not in anyway correct but that's besides the point.
Planck69 said:
But saying he's biased for disagreeing with you is a silly leap in logic.
Click to expand...
I'm not simply saying that because of the disagreement on the logic above.
I'm saying it because he goes as far as denying other evidence that has nothing to do with source= Fire Dew.
 
Planck69 said:
@Tatsumi504 Everything you've replied to with information about Fire Dew is met with him saying that the Sources of individuals has no such feats. And he is objectively correct.
Click to expand...
Planks with all due respect Glassman is objectively wrong.

Destruction of world doesn't affect the fire dew and people does gets reincarnated in another with same fire dew/source this scan literally states that. Now it's glass problem to show proof for its not.
"If the fire dew is lost, life will be lost in the bubble world. Isn't it possible that the residents who were supposed to be reincarnated will be reborn in another world?"
...
Click to expand...
"Why don't you bring back the fire dew? They have their lives too."

"What do you mean? Their life ends when they die. It's just a matter of starting a new life in a new world. It's just a different person with the same origin."
...
Click to expand...
"Returning fire dew to the bubble world is a foolish act that erases life. Bubbles will eventually disappear. Throwing life into it is like returning a fish that has finally reached the sea to the land again. It may be different from your world's beliefs, but that's the principle of the Silver sea."
Click to expand...
Planck69 said:
Now, does that mean that the comparison with Fire Dew can or can't work as proof of Type 1? No. But saying he's biased for disagreeing with you is a silly leap in logic.
Click to expand...
It's not comparing both are the same thing and I am 💯 sure this is Glassman dishonesty here. We will see when dereck or elizha replies. The scan literally states characters fire dew does not gets affected by destruction of reality it governs.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
And scans that say Fire Dew is the source have been presented. Some even mentioned the Fire Dew of Specific individuals. He is not in anyway correct but that's besides the point.
Click to expand...
Which doesn't change the fact that Sources have no such feats on their own, which is my point. You can disagree on Fire Dew stuff but acting as though he's somehow in the wrong for not agreeing with an upgrade via comparison isn't worth that prior outburst.
 
Planck69 said:
Which doesn't change the fact that Sources have no such feats on their own, which is my point. You can disagree on Fire Dew stuff but acting as though he's somehow in the wrong for not agreeing with an upgrade via comparison isn't worth that prior outburst.
Click to expand...
Are you trying to say fire dew is even deeper than source?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Are you trying to say fire dew is even deeper than source?
Click to expand...
I'm saying that the Source itself just has statements that make it a Type 3 concept. That's it. This upgrade hinges on the direct Fire Dew comparison now and regardless of how that goes, disagreeing with using said comparison isn't "acting in bad faith".
 
Planck69 said:
I'm saying that the Source itself just has statements that make it a Type 3 concept. That's it. This upgrade hinges on the direct Fire Dew comparison now and regardless of how that goes, disagreeing with using said comparison isn't "acting in bad faith".
Click to expand...
With the scans presented I still think it is a bad faith but I do respect your Opinion. So I guess we will just have to wait for Elizha and others input.
 
I believe I have already expressed my viewpoint on this matter. As I previously mentioned when discussing someone's downgrade, a source is a fundamental concept that governs an individual's existence on a personal level.

Therefore, I believe this is type 3 and cosmological dimensionality without not taking into account any additional context.

I have come across a reference to firedew or order, which I believe have already been classified as either type 1 or type 2.
  • Can someone kindly provide further clarification?
If these concepts are a subset of either order or firedew, it could be argued that they fall under the limitations of CM, thereby making them type 2 or type 1.
"All Conceptual Manipulators are bound by the type of concept they have been shown to manipulate. A character able to manipulate a concept on a Type 3 level cannot manipulate any higher concept type."

"Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature."
Click to expand...
 
ImmortalDread said:
I believe I have already expressed my viewpoint on this matter. As I previously mentioned when discussing someone's downgrade, a source is a fundamental concept that governs an individual's existence on a personal level.

Therefore, I believe this is type 3 and cosmological dimensionality without not taking into account any additional context.

I have come across a reference to firedew or order, which I believe have already been classified as either type 1 or type 2.
  • Can someone kindly provide further clarification?
If these concepts are a subset of either order or firedew, it could be argued that they fall under the limitations of CM, thereby making them type 2 or type 1.
Click to expand...
Order is type 1 as accepted.
 
Is it stated explicitly to be the same in nature? Because I find it weird how it works.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Is it stated explicitly to be the same in nature? Because I find it weird how it works.
Click to expand...
This is what it's stated
I see. In other words, fire dew is the root on earth. The fire dew circulates in this fundamental Law Garden --that is, the root (Source) reincarnates because of the order of the four gods of the tree.
Click to expand...
Also new lives are born from fire dew too wait let me send you the scan.
 
ImmortalDread said:
(source) is your translation note, and not canon, am I correct?
Click to expand...
Yes. but it's talking about source only. Because only thing which Reincarnates is Source/root.

Also here Clearly states fire dew gives birth to gods & order. The fact it states countless fire dew does proves losing a small amount would affect the reality. You know how fire dew is Calculated right dread?
　The countless fire dew that had been retrieved began to glow like fireflies.
　The white light of "Souji Souai Ra Sensia" gently enveloped the fire dew.

　They create a new order.
　The first life to be born was the Four Gods of Juri.

　Wenzel, the god of birth; Dirfred, the god of deepening; Anahem, the god of demise; and Gietenaros, the god of transmutation.

　They return to the new world of the gods with the countless gods who are reborn one after another, enveloped in a dazzling light.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Planck69 said:
Which doesn't change the fact that Sources have no such feats on their own, which is my point. You can disagree on Fire Dew stuff but acting as though he's somehow in the wrong for not agreeing with an upgrade via comparison isn't worth that prior outburst.
Click to expand...
Fine, I apologize for my outburst earlier but it isn't a comparison. The source is Fire Dew
Fire Dew
Something that flows through the Fundamental Laws Cyclic Garden, the domains of the Four Fundamental Laws Gods, equivalent to the term "Source" in the world of mortals. It is born, deepens, meets its demise, changes and cycles back to birth again, gradually decreasing its total amount in the process.
-LN Volume 10 Keyword
​
Click to expand...
"Life is something that reincarnates. The root that has been born deepens. That means growth. At the end of the deepening there is an end. The root that has reached the end, however, transforms into a different form. And you will have a new birth.”
WN Chapter 424.​
Click to expand...
 
I spoke with a translator who has no involvement in power scaling and has been translating the verse into Russian over the course of several years. I would like to continue conversing with them about MG related topics because, through their translation work, they are able to clarify any misconceptions.

image.png


image.png

Those are keywords which can be found keywords of volumes 10 part 1 and volume 11​

The scan that Elde provided doesn't appear to be relevant or supportive evidence for the conversation as it pertains to world reincarnation.
　The countless fire dew that had been retrieved began to glow like fireflies. 　The white light of "Souji Souai Ra Sensia" gently enveloped the fire dew. 　They create a new order. 　The first life to be born was the Four Gods of Juri. 　Wenzel, the god of birth; Dirfred, the god of deepening; Anahem, the god of demise; and Gietenaros, the god of transmutation. 　They return to the new world of the gods with the countless gods who are reborn one after another, enveloped in a dazzling light.
Click to expand...
 
Has nothing to do with our current thread discussion. The premise is “fire dew = source", which in fact, it is. But I am asking for more information, if they are equalivant in terms of nature and properties.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Has nothing to do with our current thread discussion. The premise is “fire dew = source", which in fact, it is. But I am asking for more information, if they are equalivant in terms of nature and properties.
Click to expand...
Here is the thing how a life comes to exists tell me? What's the important thing?
 
ImmortalDread said:
Has nothing to do with our current thread discussion. The premise is “fire dew = source", which in fact, it is. But I am asking for more information, if they are equalivant in terms of nature and properties.
Click to expand...
They are. If a life should exists you need a source (Fundamental Concepts) what forms them? Fire dew but if that life dies does the source gets destroyed? No it travels to another reality as fire dew.

Here clear cut another statement for fire dew giving birth to life.
"Transmutation surpasses demise. In the same way you were able to create a magical device to take away the fire dew in this desert of withering. By the order of the god of transmutation, the fire dew was transmuted and a human being named Holo was born!"
Click to expand...
 
Elde, I am not opposed to utilizing CM type 1 sources. However, I am rather skeptical about their equivalence and which specific terms are being utilized since it seems unlikely that the author would use two distinct terms without any discernible variation in their meaning.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Elde, I am not opposed to utilizing CM type 1 sources. However, I am rather skeptical about their equivalence and which specific terms are being utilized since it seems unlikely that the author would use two distinct terms without any discernible variation in their meaning.
Click to expand...
That's what I am saying. He never stated there are different types of fire dew but he shown in the novel that amount of fire dew affecting the reality. Each living and non living things thing and including worlds reality itself has fire dew as fundamental concepts. Hence I conclude he is refering fire dew for source as literal fire dew world has. Unless someone has scan stating fire dew which is refering the source and world are different. I doubt that because I don't remember author distinguishing between fire dew.
 
Here is some interesting facts. Eugola Raviaz who can maintain order of time couldn't damage or affect Source. Meanwhile we treat order as CM type 1.
There were supernatural forces at work that prevented the past from being magically altered. Those forces were the Keepers—heavenly embodiments of divine providence, and of the law and order of the world.

The Keeper of Time, Eugo La Raviaz, maintained the order of time by removing factors attempting to alter the past. In other words, he killed anyone who cast Rivide.
Click to expand...
The Scythe of the Timekeeper merged with his arm wreaked havoc on the temporal state of my body.

“Vanish in the eternity of time.”

Silver light enveloped me, and time accelerated. A billion—ten billion—no, an eternity repeated before me in a single instant. Not even the Demon King’s body could last forever. Eventually, it would wither and disappear.

By the time the light exploded, the body that had acquired an eternity of time had vanished—and died.

“Bwa ha ha! Well? What do you have to say now, foolish founder? Fate cannot be altered. This moment was decided from the moment I became immortal—no, from the moment you fled from war two thousand years ago!”

Hmm. So he’d finally revealed his true colors.

“I’m not sure how you’ve retained your memories after your past was erased, but it seems you haven’t forgotten me after all, Ivis.”

I placed my hand on his shoulder from behind.

Slowly, Ivis turned in disbelief. “H-How...? You were dead. I’m sure of it...”

Ivis had been born right as the war came to an end. He may have been a demon of the Mythical Age, but he didn’t know true magical warfare.

“Did you really think killing me was enough to make me die?”

Ivis activated his Magic Eyes. But there were no tricks to it—I had indeed died just now.

“Don’t act so surprised. I merely used Ingall.”

“You cast magic...with your source alone?! Without using a single drop of blood...”

Even if the physical body perishes, the source of one’s power remains. Those who have mastered magic are able to cast spells with only their source—making feats like reincarnation possible. Resurrection could be performed as long as the magic was cast within three seconds of death.
Click to expand...
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Here is some interesting facts. Eugola Raviaz who can maintain order of time couldn't damage or affect Source. Meanwhile we treat order as CM type 1.
Click to expand...






What do you think of the comment Fujiwara posted on the other thread?:

It is explicitly stated that a corpse is left behind after someone's source is destroyed (will send the scan later), so no, sources do not meet the criteria DarkGrath listed.
Click to expand...
 
Another scan which talks about root being fire dew.
"You mean your mother was reincarnated from the outside world too, right?"

"Otherwise, they're wrong."

In all likelihood, that sen seems to be thin.

"Why were two people from the deep world reborn in the bubble world?"

Misha asks, raising a small hand.

"Fire dew may flow out of the bubble world into the deep, but not the other way around."

"Usually, yes."

In the Silver Water Holy Sea, fire dew crosses the world.

The root reincarnates and is reborn as if in another world.
Given that order, everyone is probably going to the deep end.

"No wonder there were one or two who were not so lucky."

Misha and Sasha looked at each other and giggled.

"How can I say it, it seems like you and your mother. To go against the order of the Silver Water Holy Sea and be reborn from the deep world to the bubble world. Especially your mother, just now--"
Click to expand...
Chapter 521
 
@Tatsumi504 Oh yeah, I’m biased because I’m being skeptical of your obscure light/web novel verse. Not the person who keeps labeling others as wrong or idiots or telling them to get the f#ck out of the thread because they’re too blind according to them. Grow up and accept how things work here. People are going to ask questions on the arguments, or find them very iffy, so you trying to label them as biased is not going to help your argument whatsoever.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Tatsumi504
  • Locked
Upgrade Source/ Root/ Origin in Maou Gakuin to type 1 concept, Again Pt. 2
3 4 5
Replies
170
Views
9K
YoPercy
YoPercy
CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha CRT: Addressing Venuzdonoa’s “Logic Manipulation”
3 4 5
Replies
175
Views
12K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
Quintessence_PE
YanSen CM Type 1 and Resistance
Replies
30
Views
1K
Quintessence_PE
Quintessence_PE
Dereck03
  • Locked
Last (?) Maou CRT
Replies
34
Views
4K
Dereck03
Dereck03
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
  • Locked
A Small Discussion on Maou Gakuin Resistances
4 5 6
Replies
228
Views
9K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Back
Top