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Whoa! Yu x Mikaela, Eldemade x Reiner, could see that workingLet this downgrade go through first, either to rejection or acceptance.
Next time if you mentioned dracula you'll see me drink blood.
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Maou Gakuin Regeneration Downgrade (High-Godly to Mid-Godly)
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- maou gakuin regeneration
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So what's the point of this? I mean, even in future, the source has been destroyed entirely? It's the magic that has restored his source and he used it before the attack can reach him because he can't after his source gets destroyed as written. And what @Theglassman12 said, destroying source in present, destroys your future. After all, the arguement itself is regenerating after source being destroyed.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #203
...Because I was correcting you on something you got wrong. Anyways, where's the evidence that regenerating your source means regenerating your past?
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It doesn't needed, as no one in the verse regenerating from past self anyway. It's written in the page because it is possible that characters has regenerated from their past self after their soul got destroyed but it's not the case as it's impossible to regenerate if the source gets destroyed unless ofc, you're Anos.
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If we are talking about people regenerating from history EE
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #206
Oh cool, thanks. So that concludes that topic. @Qawsedf234, I'd like it if you could re-evaluate your position now that the opposition has stated that there are no feats of history regeneration.
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...DBH Zamasu
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #208
That would only apply to one specific character, not everybody's source. Although, does this character get erased and regenerate?
I meant this thread, dummy
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Yes thanks, "there is no feats from history regen" just fits what I said.
EldemadeDityjon
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At this point stop it bro just go back to your thread.
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Or graham or Venuzdonoa or Averneyu or Anahem, all gods or can use Veneziara
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Who's talking about the source? This is Rivalschnedd body. His body is literally the past of all things. Erasing that and coming back from it is what?
EldemadeDityjon
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Tatsumi you are Wasting your time honestly ask @Qawsedf234 to review your thread. That's solves this thread problem
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #215
It'd be HGR, if he has feats of regenerating from erasure. However, nobody else would scale.
Cool. So we agree that sources don't qualify for history regen, and therefore don't get HGR? That's what this whole argument was about, after all.
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It's funny how I just quoted what you said and what I said but you proceed to mention after maths conclusion from your perspective while I am leaving the conclusions to decide on staff rather than strawmaning you.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #218
Qawsedf, sorry to bother you, but could you take a second look at this? Do you still think high-godly is valid if regenerating the past is impossible in-verse?
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Could you please give your opinion here? https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgra...u-gakuin-to-type-1-concept-again-pt-2.151092/
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Regenerating the source is harder than this. Literally all gods regenerating their body which is type 1 CM and it's more difficult to regenerate the source
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Also, @Qawsedf234 , as regeneration from past self is impossible as fuji said, it's quite clear that History doesn't play any role in regeneration, regardless it's exist or not, it doesn't matter, they had need some other factor to regenerate after their soul and at worse source gets destroyed. Not even in future they can regenerate as future is dead too, all incarnations too, without Anos source restoring magic.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #222
Considering gods can regenerate their source, I find this hard to believe. Also, if Rivalschnedd has no feats of regeneration from erasure, this wouldn't matter anyways.
MaxLevel_King
He/Him- 356
- 64
"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist."
Allow me to summarize the two arguments:
For HGR: The source is an even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence than body, mind, and soul, therefore regeneration from source destruction is HGR.
Against HGR: The source is a Type 3 concept, and the definition of HGR states that very rarely does a Type 3 concept qualify for HGR unless it is proven to be as difficult to regenerate from as Type 1 and Type 2 concepts.
The source being an even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence than body, mind, and soul isn't enough to qualify for HGR. As per HGR's definition, there needs to be evidence that regenerating from source destruction (Type 3) is as difficult to regenerate from as the destruction of a Type 1 or Type 2 concept. No evidence for this has been presented in the thread. All arguments for HGR have been ignoring that a Type 3 concept doesn't inherently qualify for HGR, even if it is a fundamental aspect of a character's existence.
Allow me to summarize the two arguments:
For HGR: The source is an even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence than body, mind, and soul, therefore regeneration from source destruction is HGR.
Against HGR: The source is a Type 3 concept, and the definition of HGR states that very rarely does a Type 3 concept qualify for HGR unless it is proven to be as difficult to regenerate from as Type 1 and Type 2 concepts.
The source being an even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence than body, mind, and soul isn't enough to qualify for HGR. As per HGR's definition, there needs to be evidence that regenerating from source destruction (Type 3) is as difficult to regenerate from as the destruction of a Type 1 or Type 2 concept. No evidence for this has been presented in the thread. All arguments for HGR have been ignoring that a Type 3 concept doesn't inherently qualify for HGR, even if it is a fundamental aspect of a character's existence.
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He regenerates even his source in the fight. Gods already have HGR for their body, what more for fundamental aspect of existence that is the same with everyone elses
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #225
Do you have scans for this? And again, I would like to ask for evidence that his source is harder to regen than his body/past, since as far as I'm aware, gods can regen their sources easily.
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Oh, well if that's the case then yeah, it wouldn't be HGR but some spell based resurrection.
No, because you're misunderstanding my point.
Regeneration from your mind, body and soul being destroyed doesn't require HGR because the concept of you as a person and the fundamental aspect of your person still exists. If you die and someone has erased your concept from any future coming back would require HGR or specialized resurrection that can cover losing a fundamental aspect of yourself.
It would still be HGR unless their past self was explicitly used to bring them back.
In base Anos' case his thing was prepped based, so it doesn't qualify for HGR. But the feat itself is HGR scale wise.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #227
Yes, that's usually the case, but the page explicitly states that type 3 CM can only qualify if it is treated as being as hard to regenerate as type 1 or 2 concept. So if there isn't proof of this, HGR goes.
How would it still be HGR? They aren't regenerating their past, so what fundamental aspect are they regenerating?
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If there's no feats of regenerating from being erased across history is this topic remotely needed to discuss? Because the only thing we have for Anos is concept.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #229
From what I gathered, Qaws seems to think regenerating the source is regenerating history.
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Which it would be. If you're concept is erased coming back from it is always going to be HGR unless the concept is shown to be easily restored first.
They're regenerating despite being destroyed in all possible futures.
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@Qawsedf234 That's only because of a time paradox, not literal erasure. Plus the only thing that mentions being erased across history is a specific weapon that has that ability and no one has regenned from it.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #232
Is the future history? I can't believe I have to ask this.
No? That is not what the standard says at all... it's not "type 3 can qualify if it's hard to regenerate", it's "type 3 can qualify if it is as hard to regenerate as type 1 or 2 concepts". So where is the evidence of the latter?
EldemadeDityjon
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That's not time paradox stop with your headcanon. You still fail to explain why the future deaths would affect the individual at present without even dying. Glass at this point i feel like you are desperate so you making things up which doens't exists in the verse.
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I already acknowledged that. I was telling Fuji that his view on HGR is just wrong. Regenerating from having your future history destroyed after the fact would still be HGR.
Yes.
- Your the concept of your being is erased from all future timelines, that means that the concept of you ceases to exist the moment you die
- If you regenerate after that event, its HGR
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@EldemadeDityjon that's literally what a time paradox means. It's not headcanon, look it up. If I killed someone in the past, their future ceases to exist by default. Plus you didn't post any scan on future deaths affecting the present, what you posted was the exact opposite.
@Qawsedf234 Can you elaborate on the type 3 concept regen part given nothing about this is clear?
@Qawsedf234 Can you elaborate on the type 3 concept regen part given nothing about this is clear?
EldemadeDityjon
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Killed? whom killed whom? You are still not tackling the point why would your fundamental concepts getting affected in present alone would make you feel the infinite incarnations which hasn't happened.
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Glad to know you don't understand what an Example means. Also good job taking your own scan out of context. It never said you're feeling the future incarnations, just that they're occuring all at once because the source is getting ******.
EldemadeDityjon
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There is no example you gave regarding any time paradox
You still fail to address why would that person feel the pain of infinite future incarnation at present.
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Type 3 just means the concept in question is limited in some capacity. But if the concept of your person is destroyed and you come back, that is treated the same as coming back from Type 1 or Type 2 CM. Which is why it's still noted that it's a valid path. The times Type 3 wouldn't give you HGR is when the Type 3 concept has nothing to do with the person in question or if it's shown to have some glaring flaw.
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I think Qawsed makes sense
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