Maou Gakuin Regeneration Downgrade (High-Godly to Mid-Godly)

[Reiner04]

Anyway, I do want to say that stop using whataboutism unless it's just an example rather being a reason for upgrade, your verse have to follow the standards in the end.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Can you prove these characters are having their type 1 concepts destroyed, and then regenerating those?

Can you prove that these characters have type 1 concepts? God's actually regenerate from having type 1 concepts destroyed so this is moot

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's not. Being killed by a conceptual attack and being killed as a living concept are two very different things.

Fuji if you need me to elaborate Dracula has death Regeneration for his Regeneration ability not his own just like how all MG characters has ingal so what you Claiming doesn't make sense. As Glassman literally upgraded his own verse with deaths Regeneration as high godly regeneration for whovever has it. I don't see any scans stating Dracula has CM type 1 fundamental concepts. Dracula Regeneration is literally based on death having high godly regeneration. Atleast from the profile that's what it looks.

I am not even sure how Dracula or Death has high godly regeneration though. But i am talking about both having same ability where one is explained and other don't still both are considered to have same level of Regeneration.

No one said being killed it's just your ignorance. Gods are conceptual existence their physical body itself is order. So i don't see what you mean by being killed. Read what Tatsumi said and come back.

Maou Gakuin fans stop using whataboutism challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]

Glass accepted it for his verse with similar reasoning showing him that it Qualifies is not whataboutism I am trying to avoid double standards that's all.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Y'know, I just wanna point out that gods aren't like, literally composed of order. They just embody it, so all of what you just said is irrelevant. Guess I found my next downgrade, lmao

 

[Reiner04]

Let this downgrade go through first, either to rejection or acceptance.

Glass accepted it for his verse with similar reasoning showing him that it Qualifies is not whataboutism I am trying to avoid double standards that's all.

Next time if you mentioned dracula you'll see me drink blood.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Y'know, I just wanna point out that gods aren't like, literally composed of order. They just embody it, so all of what you just said is irrelevant. Guess I found my next downgrade, lmao

What? oh Boy I am not even gonna bother to argue with you anymore. Good luck with your Downgrade thread.

“Then you understand. This body of mine is made up of Jerga magic—a fragment of this world’s order that cannot be destroyed.”

Let this downgrade go through first, either to rejection or acceptance.

Ok

Next time if you mentioned dracula you'll see me drink blood.

Anyway I am going to sleep i hope glass doesn't come for my soul

 

[Reiner04]

Looks fine

The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s)

Characters in the MGK can resurrect even after their souls being destroyed using the ingel as was shown in the case of Sasha and misha.



But if their source is gone, they would no longer be capable of regen or comeback, as source defines their fundamental existence of who they are deeper than body, mind and soul.



Destroying source destroys all of their reincarnations at once.



hence as our page says, destroying even more fundamental aspects than soul would qualify, destroying soul doesn't mean anything but destroying source does, all other things are just examples, not limited to them. It seems enough evidence that Type 3 concept that source is of one's existence defines them entirely among all of reincarnations, take it past or future or other. I Disagree as per what our standards says.

Regeneration from one more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = regen from Type 1 and 2 concept = source.

LHS = RHS.

Hey DDM, can you take a look at my this refutation, if it's qualifies by being more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul and all of persons incarnations has been affected at once and all this?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Hey DDM, can you take a look at my this refutation, if it's qualifies by being more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul and all of persons incarnations has been affected at once and all this?

No, that's not how it works. I'll keep copy/pasting the HGR standards until you get it.

"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist."

 

[Reiner04]

No, that's not how it works. I'll keep copy/pasting the HGR standards until you get it.

"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist."

As I asked, can you prove that it being Type 3 concept makes it regen inferior to Type 2 or 1 when high godly regen is nothing more than regen from one more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul? If not, then it's done "nuh nash" is not a argument.

Regen from one's fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = Type 2 or 1 concept regen = source (Type 3 concept)

See I proved my point.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

As I asked, can you prove that it being Type 3 concept makes it regen inferior to Type 2 or 1 when high godly regen is nothing more than regen from one more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul? If not, then it's done "nuh nash" is not a argument.

That's just the default assumption. It is you who needs to prove that type 3 concept regen is at all comparable to types 1 or 2.

 

[Reiner04]

That's just the default assumption. It is you who needs to prove that type 3 concept regen is at all comparable to types 1 or 2.

Regen from one's fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = Type 2 or 1 concept regen = source (Type 3 concept)

I did. LHS = RHS

 

[Reiner04]

Do I need to break it down even more?

Regen from one's fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = Type 2 or 1 concept regen. (1)

Regen from one's fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = source (Type 3 concept). (2)

By evaluating (1) and (2), we get:

Type 2 or 1 concept regen = source (Type 3 concept)

Hence I proved my point.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Regen from one's fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = Type 2 or 1 concept regen = source (Type 3 concept)

I did. LHS = RHS

...No. That is not at all how that works. We never assume that something existing deeper than the soul is as hard to regen as a type 1/2 concept.

Do I need to break it down even more?

Regen from one's fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul = Type 2 or 1 concept regen. (1)

Step one is simply wrong. Where are you getting this from?

Anyways, if nobody brings the evidence I keep asking for, I'll probably apply the downgrades over the weekend. No staff have objected thus far.

 

[Reiner04]

No. That is not at all how that works. We never assume that something existing deeper than the soul i

Then go ahead and change the definition of the high godly regen.

 

[Qawsedf234]

This is Mid-Godly

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of body, mind, and soul.

This is High Godly

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s)

Being erased from history and coming back from it would be High Godly without getting into anything conceptual.

So no, in my view they'd still be High Godly.

 

[Reiner04]

Step one is simply wrong. Where are you getting this from?

No, that's not how it works. I'll keep copy/pasting the HGR standards until you get it.

"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist."

Because I read.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

This is Mid-Godly

This is High Godly

Being erased from history and coming back from it would be High Godly without getting into anything conceptual.

So no, in my view they'd still be High Godly.

Wait, since when was history erasure a part of this? Is there an example of characters regenerating their history that I missed? I'm confused.

 

[Reiner04]

This is Mid-Godly

This is High Godly

Being erased from history and coming back from it would be High Godly without getting into anything conceptual.

So no, in my view they'd still be High Godly.

Thank you for the input Qawsedf.

 

[Reiner04]

Wait, since when was history erasure a part of this? Is there an example of characters regenerating their history that I missed? I'm confused.

Did you missed where I quoted that affecting source affects their all incarnations, past, present and future?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'm not sure if Qawsedf even understands the basis of the downgrade? I legitimately don't know where evidence of history erasure was brought up.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Did you missed where I quoted that affecting source affects their whole incarnations, past, present and future?

It affects their future incarnations, not their past. So they would be regenerating their future at best, not their history. The future literally cannot be history.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait, since when was history erasure a part of this?

It's always been part of High Godly.

I legitimately don't know where evidence of history erasure was brought up

Erasing your source according to some of the scans I see involves the source being destroyed in the future as well. Coming back from that would be coming back from history/personalized conceptual erasure, which is enough for HGR.

 

[Reiner04]

It affects their future incarnations, not their past. So they would be regenerating their future at best, not their history. The future literally cannot be history.

Can you quote me where it says only "future"?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Erasing your source according to some of the scans I see involves the source being destroyed in the future as well. Coming back from that would be coming back from history/personalized conceptual erasure, which is enough for HGR.

But the future isn't history though. They are literally polar opposites.

 

[Reiner04]

But the future isn't history though. They are literally polar opposites.

Can you quote me where it says only "future"?

 

[Theglassman12]

@EldemadeDityjon You mean a literal concept that got erased? Said concept governs all of reality and is an aspect of chaos, a concept that predates reality? Nice try. Also you can try to downgrade the regen like you tried to downgrade the plot hax, just letting you know ahead of time you're gonna get clapped back hard for the second time.

@Qawsedf234 the future is just referring to the future incarnations that rely on the same source, that's just a time paradox as erasing it in the past makes it no longer exist in the future, plus the erasure feat is literally a specific weapon that does the erasure, it's not a mechanic of the source.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Can you quote me where it says only "future"?

Sure.

“Do you see? This is your source.”
With my right hand, I drew a magic circle in the air. It was the circle for Vebdoz. As I reached my hand inside the circle, my fingers became stained a deep black.
“Directly affecting one’s source is difficult, but Vebdoz and other such spells make it possible.”
I scratched the white orb with my nails.
“G-Gaaaaaah! Guwaaaaaaaaaaahhh!”
His screams were louder than the cries of a dying man.
“Now do you understand? Having your source wounded is an agony worse than death. Condensing every imaginable pain in this world into one would still be >incomparable. After all, the deaths of your infinite number of future incarnations are occurring all at once.”

The past/history is never brought up.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But the future isn't history though. They are literally polar opposites.

If you die you die in the present.

One second from your death it's the future.

Regenerating after your death is coming back from your concept being removed from history.

that's just a time paradox as erasing it in the past makes it no longer exist in the future, plus the erasure feat is literally a specific weapon that does the erasure

Didn't Anos come back from that type of erasure though? Coming back from a paradox induced death would still be HGR as well.

 

[Reiner04]

The past/history is never brought up.

I mean, if their source has gotten removed they cannot regen take it their soul or the history or the future but only source, there is no other method in the verse.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Qawsedf234 Going off the page no, he just came back from his source being erased though it was with a specific spell where he healed it in the future as opposed to natural regeneration.

 

[Reiner04]

@Qawsedf234 Going off the page no, he just came back from his source being erased though it was with a specific spell where he healed it in the future as opposed to natural regeneration.

If he can still function from his source being erased and can use a spell, then it should be fine. We give characters regen via this and that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If you die you die in the present.

One second from your death it's the future.

Regenerating after your death is coming back from your concept being removed from history.

Why would we assume that the regeneration applies one second retroactively and is not just happening in the present? It's more likely that they spend a second or so "dead", and then regenerate in the present (one second after their death), By that logic, any regen feat could be argued as HGR. Unless there's evidence that these characters regenerate in the future by regenerating their past first, history regen shouldn't be a part of this discussion.

@Qawsedf234 Going off the page no, he just came back from his source being erased though it was with a specific spell where he healed it in the future as opposed to natural regeneration.

Yeah it's just sending source regenerating magic into the future, so he can recover his source after it's destroyed. It's not him regenerating his source in the past.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If you die you die in the present.

One second from your death it's the future.

Regenerating after your death is coming back from your concept being removed from history.


Didn't Anos come back from that type of erasure though? Coming back from a paradox induced death would still be HGR as well.

Glass is wrong it's not time paradox. If you read the scan you can see just scratching the source alone make the individual feel infinite incarnations death in a single second but they still don't die until you destroy their sources. I don't see how time paradox would work here.

You scratch the Source in present. You gets to feel infinite incarnations death at same time in the present. Why would you feel that ? That doens't make sense. Glass is clear cut wrong in that time paradox argument. Also gods have CM type 1 body Anos can use same level HGR so does Graham logically speaking

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah it's just sending source regenerating magic into the future, so he can recover his source after it's destroyed. It's not him regenerating his source in the past.

Can I see the scan for this anyway? Like he sent the source regenerating magic in the future after his source being erased and all? And what about Time paradox where source got destroyed in the present but still intact in the future? Wouldn't it contradict your previous arguement?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Reiner I'm not saying the regeneration is invalid, it's just more unconventional as he used a spell to regenerate it as oppose to just normally regenerate.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Can I see the scan for this anyway? Like he sent the source regenerating magic in the future after his source being erased and all? And what about Time paradox where source got destroyed in the present but still intact in the future? Wouldn't it contradict your previous arguement?

No, he does it before his source gets destroyed, here's the scan.

I'm not sure what your second point has to do with anything. It doesn't prove that sources count as history regen, anyways.

Glass is wrong it's not time paradox. If you read the scan you can see just scratching the source alone make the individual feel infinite incarnations death in a single second but they still don't die until you destroy their sources. I don't see how time paradox would work here.

You scratch the Source in present. You gets to feel infinite incarnations death at same time in the present. Why would you feel that ? That doens't make sense. Glass is clear cut wrong in that time paradox argument. Also gods have CM type 1 body Anos can use same level HGR so does Graham logically speaking

Okay? How does this mean that regenerating the source equates to regenerating history?

 

[Reiner04]

If you die you die in the present.

One second from your death it's the future.

Regenerating after your death is coming back from your concept being removed from history.


Didn't Anos come back from that type of erasure though? Coming back from a paradox induced death would still be HGR as well.

Also Qawsed, it's a verse mechanics that it strictly follows, past cannot be affected, Order will revert back any changes. So all that matters it has been destroyed all along future and what not, like erased.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Okay? How does this mean that regenerating the source equates to regenerating history?

I was correcting Glass I didn't said anything about history.

You don't need to regenerate from history destruction when you have CM type 1 which already all gods has..

 

[Tatsumi504]

Y'know, I just wanna point out that gods aren't like, literally composed of order. They just embody it, so all of what you just said is irrelevant. Guess I found my next downgrade, lmao

This again? Lmfao. How many times does someone have to try and fail before they learn?

Filthy demons...
The eerie voice echoed across the battlefield. It could be heard by
everyone, including Dilhade’s army.
...I am Jerga...
“Jerga?” Lay muttered.
...the conscious magic crafted to destroy all demons.
The light of Aske gathered in the sky above Azesion. Once united, it
rained down onto the battlefield below and condensed into the shape of a
body.
“Master...”
Lay’s eyes widened in disbelief. The body of magic that had formed
before him belonged to the man who had founded the Hero Academy two
thousand years ago to destroy the Demon King of Tyranny—the commander
of the Gairadite Demon King Subjugation Battalion, Hero Jerga.
[...]
“Then you understand. This body of mine is made up of Jerga magic—a
fragment of this world’s order that cannot be destroyed.”

God is order. God is the absolute existence for the demons, humans, spirits, and everything else that lives in this world. He is the reason of this world.
[...]
O you fools who spit in the heavens! Be punished for your disobedience to order. Look up to the image of God."

As usual, Nousgalia utters the words of a miracle working God.

His body is enveloped in a dazzling light, and his magical power swells to extraordinary levels.

As if the body of the Eldemade demon tribe he had taken over was being turned inside out, its appearance changed.

Golden hair and fiery red demon eyes.

Wings of light composed of particles of magical power appear on her back.

The earth shook and the delzgade trembled violently.

A tremendous amount of magical power was overflowing from Nousgalia.

It mixes with the air and shakes the castle just by its mere presence.

It resembles Jerga's magical body, but is distinctly different from it.

It was as if an enormous amount of magical power had mass, shaping the form of a true god, his divine body.

Oh my God. Good luck trying to make this AE 2

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Also Qawsed, it's a verse mechanics that it strictly follows, past cannot be affected, Order will revert back any changes. So all that matters it has been destroyed all along future and what not, like erased.

If the past can't be affected than regenerating the past should be impossible (since that'd imply changing the past...).