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Continuation of this thread
The top and god tiers of the verse at this point currently are scaling to Low 5-B in the Era of Myths and High 5-A later on in the Magical Era however there's a problem with this. Beginning from their newly reincarnated selves, the one thing that's constantly been parroted for said characters who reincarnated is "regaining the power of their past life", as such it makes no sense for their past life to be Low 5-B then High 5-A after regaining that power thus I propose changing their Era of Myths key scaling to High 5-A.
This shouldn't be a problem as the Low 5-B calculation comes from a character who isn't a top or god tier and others like Shin are scaling to it for effortlessly one tapping them while holding back.
Along with constantly being stated to be regaining their power, they're also noted to have gotten stronger than their past selves, same applies to those who didn't reincarnate (got stronger from the passage of time). There are currently two High 5-A calculations; Anos moving the moon (286.63 Ronnatons) and Magical Era Epiteo's GPE (1.2695 Quettatons) so I propose scaling their weaker past lives to the former and their stronger selves to the latter.
Aske is accepted as a 1200x multiplier which puts the hero at (4-C: 343.956 Quettatons). Those who scale to or above the hero should be star level.
For speed, the characters (Great Spirit Arc) travel back in time and have a few skirmishes there to which the God Tiers still show superiority. Lay scales to Massively FTL (100.069c) and the likes of Shin are able to keep up with him. Those relative to Shin conversely should scale as well.
Lifting Strength shouldn't be Class T but Stellar (3.185e+30 N or 3.247e+29 Kg) for the Top and God Tiers. The same multiplier applies so those scaling to the amped Hero will be (3.896e+32 Kg).
Lay Grandsley the reincarnated hero is noted to have gotten stronger so he scales. He uses Teo Aske (a stronger Aske variant) which puts him at (High 4-C: 0.0637 Foe).
Lay even in his amped state is weaker than Shin Reglia and loses to him. Later on it's said were he to fight Shin using his holy sword (Evansmana), the fight would be more equal. This places Evansmana at High 4-C as well (context behind the statement shows it's referring to his usage of Evansmana without his amps).
He fights the Great Spirit Avos Dilhevia later on with Evansmana and is easily overpowered, requires the use of Teo Aske to even match her strength. Aske & Teo Aske are noted to also amplify the capabilities of a weapon. Evansmana already has a base rating of High 4-C, amplifying its power with Teo Aske would put it at (4-B: 76.44 Foe).
Lifting strength; they will scale off Epiteo's mass (Stellar: 1.6257e+30 Kg) and with the amp will be (Multi-Stellar: 1.95084e+33 Kg)
First key (Mythical Era)
Attack Potency: At least High 5-A (Moved the moon to create a solar eclipse) up to 4-C {Star level} (Stronger than Kanon empowered by Aske), higher via Origin Magic (Magic which borrows power from an ancient entity, the older the existence, the more power they possess)
Speed: At least FTL up to Massively FTL (Superior to his newly reincarnated self. Comparable to characters capable of this)
Lifting Strength: At least Stellar up to Multi-Stellar (Capable of moving the moon at relativistic speeds)
Fourth Key (Great Spirit Arc)
Attack Potency: At least 4-B (Stronger than the likes of Avos Dilhevia who could overpower Lay Grandsley using a Teo Aske empowered Evansmana), higher via Origin Magic (Magic which borrows power from an ancient entity, the older the existence, the more power they possess), far higher via Ji Noavus (Ancient magic used in the time long before the mythical era to amplify even paltry amounts of magic power with no perceivable limit. Originally theorized to amplify magic indefinitely, produce an infinite amount of magic power however there is a limit to the amount of power that can be drawn out by each spell and at that very limit lies Ji Noavus. Anos casts the ancient spell by inserting the formula for Jirasd into a formula of ancient runes he created)
Lifting Strength: Stellar up to Multi-Stellar (Stronger than Teo Aske amped Lay Grandsley)
The 6-C characters scale to Anos and Lay clearing the sky (13.6906 Gigatons). Considering this is just for the shockwave of the attack and it's noted both of them keep getting stronger, I suggest upscaling the calc to 14 Gigatons, additionally the of them are under a handicap that reduces their stats by 3x so they're 42 Gigatons without it. This affects every 6-C character as they're relative to the two at this point.
Anos burns down Dilhade (High 6-B+: 502.078 Teratons) is what the mid tiers of the Mythical Era scale to since none of them were killed by such an attack.
The power of the likes of Divine Beasts and Guardian Gods easily surpass that of demons and humans. Top tiers like the Hero are those capable of crossing the barrier unscathed. This means even lower ranked gods like the Keepers are as strong as the top tiers (High 5-A: 286.64 Ronnatons). Anos power while newly reincarnated is said to be greater than the Guardian God of Time.
Attack Potency: Varies (Depending on the opponent), At least 6-C (His clash with Lay blew away a mountain, dried away a river, caused an earthquake, and dispersed all the clouds in the sky, turning their area into a desolate wasteland while they 3x weaker), High 6-B+ (Burned his country Dilhade to the ground with an explosion) up to High 5-A (Is at least 3x stronger than Eugo la Raviaz), higher with Origin magic
Speed: At least Sub-Relativistic+ (Capable of moving this fast while weakened by 3x), FTL (Can keep up with Lay who could move so fast he became a flash of light even when both were under the effects of Gyze that reduces their parameters to less than a 1/3) up to Massively FTL (Comparable to Lay Grandsley who became fast enough to perform countless slashes in half a second)
Lifting Strength: At least Class T ((Lifted and launched a castle with this much force), Class P (Is stronger than the likes of Aisha Necron) up to Stellar (Stronger than the likes of Eugo la Raviaz)
The use of "varies" and "up to" ratings is because Anos consistently shows varying levels power depending on his opponent. Being harmed by the likes of Ivis (6-C), constantly raising his power against Lay (6-C to High 6-B+), being harmed by Eugo la Raviaz then catching his attacks bare handed. The last thread covered magic power being a UES, one's power can easily rise or fall depending on how much of it they decide to expend be it matching opponents who normally output far more magic than you or bringing yourself down to the level of weaker opponents.
Post Reincarnation basically is just completely regaining his full power from his past life so there isn't much to say here, just slap on the stats of his first key, we concentrating on the weakened aspect.
Anos has his source stabbed and destroyed by Evansmana, and it weakens him. In this weakened state, he is comparable to the likes of Jerga. To determine where Jerga scales to we would have to look at the current Hero profiles. Jerga scales above the strongest heroes at this time and when he manifests he absorbs the power of the Aske empowered humans around him and among them include Zeshia Bianca.
Attack Potency: At least 5-C while weakened by Evansmana (Having his source pierced by Evansmana has weakened him greatly. Stronger than Aske empowered Zeshia Bianca), higher via Origin Magic. At least High 5-A up to 4-C at full power (As strong as himself in the Era of Myths)
Speed: At least FTL up to Massively FTL (As fast as his newly reincarnated self), higher at full power
Lifting Strength: Class Z (Stronger than Mythical Era Lignon). Stellar at full power (As strong as himself prior to reincarnating)
Eleonore Bianca, Zeshia Bianca, Sasha Necron, Misha Necron in their justifications for this key are all noted to be comparable to be comparable to reincarnated demons from the Mythical Era only problem is they're still in the same tier as their previous key so let's determine how powerful these demons are.
Of the bat I propose these demons be scaled to Anos weakened key. This is because they admit to being stronger than they were in their past life cause their source reincarnated into a body bearing the Demon King's blood making them boast powerful physical abilities and magical efficiency before having it amplified by the sheer amount of magic they possess. Anos himself even says the purity of his blood doesn't matter and even a drop of it is enough to inherit his power so they should at least scale to the weakest he has been under normal circumstances.
Obviously they aren't fully as strong as him and the guys even gave me hell on discord about the arbitrariness of using the inheritance of blood to scale them to his weakened self as his other descendants with the same blood are all weak but I did some research and came up with the following reasons why it is valid.
1.) The other descendants being weak alone isn't sufficient enough to disprove it, sure it has some credence to it but the inheritance of power is always going to be to varying degrees.
2.) The pure blood reincarnated students like Linka and Gerard are part of the chaos generation like Sasha. The Chaos Generation are students who possess far more power than as seen in other demons of that era and are thought to be the reincarnated demon king (Anos would reincarnate into one of them).
3.) On several occasions in this arc, Anos tells Lay not to hold back against them as they won't die easily even when he's using Evansmana.
4.) Gerard despite being harmed by Lay still survives his attacks with no issue. It's noted a normal demon would have died immediately which goes to once again show how durable they are. Let it also be known Lay easily cleaved Armored Jerga's holy sword, were Gerard to be weaker than Jerga at all, Lay's attack should've not only instantly killed him but split his torso as well.
5.) Much later in Vol 10 it's brought up how the likes of Linka have inherited the demon kings power, only this time, they've mastered the power in their new body making them stronger by several orders of magnitude. The enemies they're fighting here are Gods and it's not like it's an even fight, Linka is breezing through several of them.
The scaling for the reincarnated demons would look like this;
Attack Potency; At least 5-C (As strong as weakened Anos Voldigoad as they've inherited his power)
Speed: At least FTL up to Massively FTL (Comparable to a weakened Anos Voldigoad, can keep up with and tag Lay Grandsley)
Lifting Strength: At least Class Z (Comparable to a weakened Anos Voldigoad)
Striking Strength: 5-C (Equal to their attack potency)
Durability: 5-C (Equal to her attack potency. Before developing strong magic, one must first train their body to be able to withstand the power they possess or it will destroy them)
Applying to the same characters mentioned above and in the same fashion, Zeshia this this time is capable of harming Dragons whose durability scales to the attack potency of the top tiers in the Mythical Era (286.63 Ronnatons). She does this by using a combination of 1100 projectiles, the mechanics of which you're free to question but the story makes it known the durability was overcome by the sheer number.
The logic way to go about this is downscale from the dragon's durability by 1100x but seeing as they use Aske regularly this arc, let them downscale by 1200x so their Aske empowered selves scales directly to its durability. There's no contradiction given Eleonore who's relative to Zeshia one shots them using it.
Downscaling we arrive at Large Planet level (238.8583 Yottatons).
Attack Potency: 5-A (Required a combination of over 1100 attacks to harm a dragon whose scales are so tough Shin Reglia has to target their weak spot to cut them). High 5-A via Aske(Can amplify her stats by at least 1200x via Aske), higher via Teo Triath (Capable of shooting down and killing dragons with one attack), far higher with Magic Mirrors (By placing two magic mirrors parallel to each other and reflecting attacks, the reflected item is duplicated countless times before being combined into one and shot at the opponent)
Striking Strength: 5-A (Equal to her Attack Potency). High 5-A via Aske
Other stats remain the same as the previous key, durability scales to their striking strength.
Eleonore's profile should reflect the same tiering as Zeshia's but without the magic mirrors and Sasha and Misha become 5-A but no amp from Aske with the justifications being comparability to Zeshia.
There's one more volume along with some other stuff to cover but this has already become a yap session so I'll end it here.
Agree: (5,3) @Dereck03, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Elizhaa
Neutral: (0,0)
Disagree: (0,0)
Anos: Mythical Era and Great Spirit Arc Keys
The top and god tiers of the verse at this point currently are scaling to Low 5-B in the Era of Myths and High 5-A later on in the Magical Era however there's a problem with this. Beginning from their newly reincarnated selves, the one thing that's constantly been parroted for said characters who reincarnated is "regaining the power of their past life", as such it makes no sense for their past life to be Low 5-B then High 5-A after regaining that power thus I propose changing their Era of Myths key scaling to High 5-A.This shouldn't be a problem as the Low 5-B calculation comes from a character who isn't a top or god tier and others like Shin are scaling to it for effortlessly one tapping them while holding back.
Along with constantly being stated to be regaining their power, they're also noted to have gotten stronger than their past selves, same applies to those who didn't reincarnate (got stronger from the passage of time). There are currently two High 5-A calculations; Anos moving the moon (286.63 Ronnatons) and Magical Era Epiteo's GPE (1.2695 Quettatons) so I propose scaling their weaker past lives to the former and their stronger selves to the latter.
Why scale to Epiteo?
The GPE calc is for a spirit, a spirit's power depends on how widespread/famous it's rumors are, the more widespread it is, the stronger the spirit. Great spirits are those who's rumors are widely known and as such far surpass the power of other spirits. Lignon is a great spirit which makes her power greater than Epiteo's and this is the same Lignon that got one tapped effortlessly by one of the top to god tiers.Multipliers and Scaling
Mythical Era (1st key)
The top tiers scale to Anos feat of moving the moon (High 5-A: 286.63 Ronnatons), included among them is the hero, Kanon. Humans during the war required the use of Aske to match the power of demon kind and the same applies to Kanon when fighting the Demon King.Aske is accepted as a 1200x multiplier which puts the hero at (4-C: 343.956 Quettatons). Those who scale to or above the hero should be star level.
For speed, the characters (Great Spirit Arc) travel back in time and have a few skirmishes there to which the God Tiers still show superiority. Lay scales to Massively FTL (100.069c) and the likes of Shin are able to keep up with him. Those relative to Shin conversely should scale as well.
Lifting Strength shouldn't be Class T but Stellar (3.185e+30 N or 3.247e+29 Kg) for the Top and God Tiers. The same multiplier applies so those scaling to the amped Hero will be (3.896e+32 Kg).
Magical Era (Great Spirit Arc)
All the top tiers scale above Epiteo's GPE calc so they're (High 5-A: 1.2695 Quettatons).Lay Grandsley the reincarnated hero is noted to have gotten stronger so he scales. He uses Teo Aske (a stronger Aske variant) which puts him at (High 4-C: 0.0637 Foe).
Lay even in his amped state is weaker than Shin Reglia and loses to him. Later on it's said were he to fight Shin using his holy sword (Evansmana), the fight would be more equal. This places Evansmana at High 4-C as well (context behind the statement shows it's referring to his usage of Evansmana without his amps).
Teo Aske can only be used between the caster and their loved one (Misa in this case. Misa however has been taken over so he is unable to use it without her.
Lifting strength; they will scale off Epiteo's mass (Stellar: 1.6257e+30 Kg) and with the amp will be (Multi-Stellar: 1.95084e+33 Kg)
Conclusion
Anos is the only one with a profile currently affected by this so;First key (Mythical Era)
Attack Potency: At least High 5-A (Moved the moon to create a solar eclipse) up to 4-C {Star level} (Stronger than Kanon empowered by Aske), higher via Origin Magic (Magic which borrows power from an ancient entity, the older the existence, the more power they possess)
Speed: At least FTL up to Massively FTL (Superior to his newly reincarnated self. Comparable to characters capable of this)
Lifting Strength: At least Stellar up to Multi-Stellar (Capable of moving the moon at relativistic speeds)
Fourth Key (Great Spirit Arc)
Attack Potency: At least 4-B (Stronger than the likes of Avos Dilhevia who could overpower Lay Grandsley using a Teo Aske empowered Evansmana), higher via Origin Magic (Magic which borrows power from an ancient entity, the older the existence, the more power they possess), far higher via Ji Noavus (Ancient magic used in the time long before the mythical era to amplify even paltry amounts of magic power with no perceivable limit. Originally theorized to amplify magic indefinitely, produce an infinite amount of magic power however there is a limit to the amount of power that can be drawn out by each spell and at that very limit lies Ji Noavus. Anos casts the ancient spell by inserting the formula for Jirasd into a formula of ancient runes he created)
Lifting Strength: Stellar up to Multi-Stellar (Stronger than Teo Aske amped Lay Grandsley)
Anos: Newly Reincarnated Key (Vol 1-2)
The 6-C characters scale to Anos and Lay clearing the sky (13.6906 Gigatons). Considering this is just for the shockwave of the attack and it's noted both of them keep getting stronger, I suggest upscaling the calc to 14 Gigatons, additionally the of them are under a handicap that reduces their stats by 3x so they're 42 Gigatons without it. This affects every 6-C character as they're relative to the two at this point.Anos burns down Dilhade (High 6-B+: 502.078 Teratons) is what the mid tiers of the Mythical Era scale to since none of them were killed by such an attack.
The power of the likes of Divine Beasts and Guardian Gods easily surpass that of demons and humans. Top tiers like the Hero are those capable of crossing the barrier unscathed. This means even lower ranked gods like the Keepers are as strong as the top tiers (High 5-A: 286.64 Ronnatons). Anos power while newly reincarnated is said to be greater than the Guardian God of Time.
Changes
Anos tiering in this key should look like this;Attack Potency: Varies (Depending on the opponent), At least 6-C (His clash with Lay blew away a mountain, dried away a river, caused an earthquake, and dispersed all the clouds in the sky, turning their area into a desolate wasteland while they 3x weaker), High 6-B+ (Burned his country Dilhade to the ground with an explosion) up to High 5-A (Is at least 3x stronger than Eugo la Raviaz), higher with Origin magic
Speed: At least Sub-Relativistic+ (Capable of moving this fast while weakened by 3x), FTL (Can keep up with Lay who could move so fast he became a flash of light even when both were under the effects of Gyze that reduces their parameters to less than a 1/3) up to Massively FTL (Comparable to Lay Grandsley who became fast enough to perform countless slashes in half a second)
Lifting Strength: At least Class T ((Lifted and launched a castle with this much force), Class P (Is stronger than the likes of Aisha Necron) up to Stellar (Stronger than the likes of Eugo la Raviaz)
The use of "varies" and "up to" ratings is because Anos consistently shows varying levels power depending on his opponent. Being harmed by the likes of Ivis (6-C), constantly raising his power against Lay (6-C to High 6-B+), being harmed by Eugo la Raviaz then catching his attacks bare handed. The last thread covered magic power being a UES, one's power can easily rise or fall depending on how much of it they decide to expend be it matching opponents who normally output far more magic than you or bringing yourself down to the level of weaker opponents.
Anos, Post Reincarnation/ Weakened Key (Vol 3)
Post Reincarnation basically is just completely regaining his full power from his past life so there isn't much to say here, just slap on the stats of his first key, we concentrating on the weakened aspect.Anos has his source stabbed and destroyed by Evansmana, and it weakens him. In this weakened state, he is comparable to the likes of Jerga. To determine where Jerga scales to we would have to look at the current Hero profiles. Jerga scales above the strongest heroes at this time and when he manifests he absorbs the power of the Aske empowered humans around him and among them include Zeshia Bianca.
Lifting strength should be Class Z, as I mentioned previously Great Spirits (Lignon) are stronger than others (Epiteo). Epiteo's mass prior to the Magical Era can be obtained from this calc done by KingTempest for snakes that large. These characters surpass the likes of Lignon in power so they should scale above Epiteo's mass (Class Z: 4.4025953e22 Kg).
Changes
The key is nonexistent right now so in addition to its creation;Attack Potency: At least 5-C while weakened by Evansmana (Having his source pierced by Evansmana has weakened him greatly. Stronger than Aske empowered Zeshia Bianca), higher via Origin Magic. At least High 5-A up to 4-C at full power (As strong as himself in the Era of Myths)
Speed: At least FTL up to Massively FTL (As fast as his newly reincarnated self), higher at full power
Lifting Strength: Class Z (Stronger than Mythical Era Lignon). Stellar at full power (As strong as himself prior to reincarnating)
Others: Great Spirit Arc Key (Vol 4)
Eleonore Bianca, Zeshia Bianca, Sasha Necron, Misha Necron in their justifications for this key are all noted to be comparable to be comparable to reincarnated demons from the Mythical Era only problem is they're still in the same tier as their previous key so let's determine how powerful these demons are.Of the bat I propose these demons be scaled to Anos weakened key. This is because they admit to being stronger than they were in their past life cause their source reincarnated into a body bearing the Demon King's blood making them boast powerful physical abilities and magical efficiency before having it amplified by the sheer amount of magic they possess. Anos himself even says the purity of his blood doesn't matter and even a drop of it is enough to inherit his power so they should at least scale to the weakest he has been under normal circumstances.
Obviously they aren't fully as strong as him and the guys even gave me hell on discord about the arbitrariness of using the inheritance of blood to scale them to his weakened self as his other descendants with the same blood are all weak but I did some research and came up with the following reasons why it is valid.
1.) The other descendants being weak alone isn't sufficient enough to disprove it, sure it has some credence to it but the inheritance of power is always going to be to varying degrees.
2.) The pure blood reincarnated students like Linka and Gerard are part of the chaos generation like Sasha. The Chaos Generation are students who possess far more power than as seen in other demons of that era and are thought to be the reincarnated demon king (Anos would reincarnate into one of them).
3.) On several occasions in this arc, Anos tells Lay not to hold back against them as they won't die easily even when he's using Evansmana.
4.) Gerard despite being harmed by Lay still survives his attacks with no issue. It's noted a normal demon would have died immediately which goes to once again show how durable they are. Let it also be known Lay easily cleaved Armored Jerga's holy sword, were Gerard to be weaker than Jerga at all, Lay's attack should've not only instantly killed him but split his torso as well.
5.) Much later in Vol 10 it's brought up how the likes of Linka have inherited the demon kings power, only this time, they've mastered the power in their new body making them stronger by several orders of magnitude. The enemies they're fighting here are Gods and it's not like it's an even fight, Linka is breezing through several of them.
The scaling for the reincarnated demons would look like this;
Attack Potency; At least 5-C (As strong as weakened Anos Voldigoad as they've inherited his power)
Speed: At least FTL up to Massively FTL (Comparable to a weakened Anos Voldigoad, can keep up with and tag Lay Grandsley)
Gerard reacted to Lay's movement, Rouche manages to tag Lay despite the fact she is unable to see him
Striking Strength: 5-C (Equal to their attack potency)
Durability: 5-C (Equal to her attack potency. Before developing strong magic, one must first train their body to be able to withstand the power they possess or it will destroy them)
Conclusion
The stats of the characters outlined at the beginning of this section should be changed to the stats given above while keeping the same justifications, Eleonore actively uses Aske in this arc so the multiplier should also be reflected in her stats.Others: Selection Trial Arc (Vol 5)
Applying to the same characters mentioned above and in the same fashion, Zeshia this this time is capable of harming Dragons whose durability scales to the attack potency of the top tiers in the Mythical Era (286.63 Ronnatons). She does this by using a combination of 1100 projectiles, the mechanics of which you're free to question but the story makes it known the durability was overcome by the sheer number.The logic way to go about this is downscale from the dragon's durability by 1100x but seeing as they use Aske regularly this arc, let them downscale by 1200x so their Aske empowered selves scales directly to its durability. There's no contradiction given Eleonore who's relative to Zeshia one shots them using it.
Downscaling we arrive at Large Planet level (238.8583 Yottatons).
Changes
Zeshia BiancaAttack Potency: 5-A (Required a combination of over 1100 attacks to harm a dragon whose scales are so tough Shin Reglia has to target their weak spot to cut them). High 5-A via Aske(Can amplify her stats by at least 1200x via Aske), higher via Teo Triath (Capable of shooting down and killing dragons with one attack), far higher with Magic Mirrors (By placing two magic mirrors parallel to each other and reflecting attacks, the reflected item is duplicated countless times before being combined into one and shot at the opponent)
Striking Strength: 5-A (Equal to her Attack Potency). High 5-A via Aske
Other stats remain the same as the previous key, durability scales to their striking strength.
Eleonore's profile should reflect the same tiering as Zeshia's but without the magic mirrors and Sasha and Misha become 5-A but no amp from Aske with the justifications being comparability to Zeshia.
There's one more volume along with some other stuff to cover but this has already become a yap session so I'll end it here.
Agree: (5,3) @Dereck03, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Elizhaa
Neutral: (0,0)
Disagree: (0,0)
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