Maou Gakuin No Futekigousha Downgrade

[PrinceofPein]

This translation is actually a lot clearer than the one in the imgur album. Would you mind providing a similar translation for the other scans? I think it would be very insightful. Also the full context of that exchange would be helpful. If she's explaining her own power, then we can say definitively that her ability is more akin to probability manipulation than anything else.

I am already on extracting all the texts, so I will get the translations soon

Pain, you do realise that it's just basing your arguement over a word but not the context? The "Futures" and "possibilities" and "another worlds" has been quite used interchangeably, can anyone deny? No.

No another world has never been used interchangeably, another world was only used to refer to a world created by the crystal an ability of nafta that allows her to drag her opponent into a world made of crystal and limit it to the worst posible thing that can happen to the opponent.

As much I can understand the basis of the arguement based of materialisation of the future, it's nothing more than referring that if future has been seen there won't be any possibilities, and so no world. That's why, the future can NEVER be seen.

At this point please state your points clearly.
You said they operate on MWI, please bring the scan. and also she can see all possiblities and pick the one she wants not what you are saying here, the only future she cannot see is the one where she does not exist or where she is dead

 

[Deagonx]

If we accept the notion that futures are merely potentialities, it would necessarily imply a 2-A cosmology, where the range of possibilities is infinite.

That doesn't appear to be the case, no. A single world with infinite potential futures is not 2-A unless they are co-existing infinite timelines. There isn't an implicit assumption that possibility entails actual divergent timelines.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It does not sound like co-existing, if it is described to be the shape of the world explicitly, unless you are trying to claim that the shape is also illusion, but that's a bit unsupported within the verse.

I will address this later.

@PrinceofPein this thread has nothing to do with 5D layers and 6D cosmology.

 

[Deagonx]

It does not sound like co-existing, if it is described to be the shape of the world explicitly, unless you are trying to claim that the shape is also illusion, but that's a bit unsupported within the verse.

I don't know what you're trying to say.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I don't know what you're trying to say.

If you are claiming Anos was sent to a world that's just an illusion that you need to prove it. Because Anos destroyed that future.

 

[PrinceofPein]

If you are claiming Anos was sent to a world that's just an illusion that you need to prove it. Because Anos destroyed that future.

The shards of the crystal are growing in number and enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm.
It is another form of the world that could have been. I sentence thee, O man of iniquity, to the punishment of a limited world.
　As soon as the crystal sandstorm passed, the landscape changed.
　It was a strange city. Every building, every plant, every person was made of crystal.
　Even the mountains in the distance, the canopy in the distance, and the flowing rivers were made of crystal.
　I could feel tremendous magical power from each and every one of them.
Hm. A world made of candiquisorte.

this was what anos was sent to
It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.

@PrinceofPein this thread has nothing to do with 5D layers and 6D cosmology.

I do not really care about that right now, I have not even checked the thread that made them that, I am only concerned about the crystals

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

this was what anos was sent to
It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.

Where it's stated that was an illusion?

 

[Deagonx]

If you are claiming Anos was sent to a world that's just an illusion that you need to prove it. Because Anos destroyed that future.

The OP addresses this. However, even the scan itself refers to it as a "limited world."

Where it's stated that was an illusion?

I do not know why you're fixating on the word "illusion" and demanding some verbatim usage of that word in the scans. You should engage with what he's actually saying.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I do not really care about that right now, I have not even checked the thread that made them that, I am only concerned about the crystals

Alrighty, just saying that the outcome of the thread won't change the dimensionality.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Where it's stated that was an illusion?

And where did I say it was an illusion?
What is with you and strawmanning, here is what I said

The shards of the crystal are growing in number and enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm.
It is another form of the world that could have been. I sentence thee, O man of iniquity, to the punishment of a limited world.
　As soon as the crystal sandstorm passed, the landscape changed.
　It was a strange city. Every building, every plant, every person was made of crystal.
　Even the mountains in the distance, the canopy in the distance, and the flowing rivers were made of crystal.
　I could feel tremendous magical power from each and every one of them.
Hm. A world made of candiquisorte.

this was what anos was sent to
It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.

It is an ability for nafta, that allows her to sentence someone to their worst future

 

[Theglassman12]

@ImmortalDread If the bubble worlds are 5-D it does look like it will be affected given the realm is being argued to being Low 2-C at best.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@ImmortalDread If the bubble worlds are 5-D it does look like it will be affected given the realm is being argued to being Low 2-C at best.

No, since even with low 2-C, it can be upgraded to 5D.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The OP addresses this. However, even the scan itself refers to it as a "limited world."


I do not know why you're fixating on the word "illusion" and demanding some verbatim usage of that word in the scans. You should engage with what he's actually saying.

Because you are claiming that world was not real. And NAFTA said that's a limited world because she was sentencing Anos to death.

And where did I say it was an illusion?
What is with you and strawmanning, here is what I said

this was what anos was sent to
It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.

It is an ability for nafta, that allows her to sentence someone to their worst future

So what's the OP stands for you are claiming that world doesn't exist it's just a possibility but now you are saying it was created. Also it didn't said it was created by Natfa.

Also here is the better translation. You can check the cosmology page instead of translating the scans. Null pretty much updated the Translation for years.

It states A world created by Kandaquisort, not that NAFTA created that world. So i hope both of you stop making things like NAFTA created the world shit. Kandaquisort is the one which is creating the future. Which is divine domain. NAFTA only accessing the future.

"Nafta swears. As long as there is a present, the future will rise again and again even if it is destroyed. The only way to destroy the Future World Crystal is to destroy all possibilities."
The number of crystal shards increased rapidly, enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm.
"This could be another form of the world. Condemned, you are sentenced to a limiting world."
As the crystal sandstorm dissipated, the landscape around us changed.
We were in a strange city. All the buildings, vegetation, and inhabitants were made of crystal.
The mountains visible in the distance, the heavenly canopy, and even the flowing rivers were crystal.
And from all this I felt unimaginable magical power.
"A world created by Kandaquisort, then?"

 

[PrinceofPein]

Because you are claiming that world was not real. And NAFTA said that's a limited world because she was sentencing Anos to death.

So what's the OP stands for you are claiming that world doesn't exist it's just a possibility but now you are saying it was created. Also it didn't said it was created by Natfa.

No read again instead of strawmanning read my arguments properly.
The futures are just possibilities and nafta can bring anyone of those futures to pass
now using the crystal nafta is able to create a world where the worst possible future comes to pass and traps her opponent in that world, but this world is not even a real world since it is aworld made of only crystals

It was a strange city. Every building, every plant, every person was made of crystal.
　Even the mountains in the distance, the canopy in the distance, and the flowing rivers were made of crystal.

And we do not even know the size of it, since this is all we got about size

Also here is the better translation. You can check the cosmology page instead of translating the scans. Null pretty much updated the Translation for years.

It states A world created by Kandaquisort, not that NAFTA created that world. So i hope both of you stop making things like NAFTA created the world shit. Kandaquisort is the one which is creating the future. Which is divine domain. NAFTA only accessing the future.

What is your point? nafta is the one using the crystal and controls it so again what is your point?
Oh look he shot a gun, and then you come he is not the one shooting the bullet but the gun, who is holding the gun?
Also read

When these eyes open, Nafta will see all the future.
"When these eyes open, Nafta will be able to see all the future. All the future that is to come, all the miracles that are to happen, are in the hands of Nafta, the God of the Future.
All future events, all miracles, are in the hands of Nafta, the god of the future. From the crevices of your hands, the future of victory will spill out.
The future of victory spills from the cracks of your hand, and even the possibility of resistance vanishes."
She says it as if it were a matter of course.
'Some die of a cold. Some fall down and die.
Some fall down and die. Everyone rolls God's dice and lives in this world as a result.
and as a result, they live in this world. If you challenge Nafta, the worst day of your life
will come upon you.

Continuation

The shards of the crystal are growing in number and enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm.
It is another form of the world that could have been. I sentence thee, O man of iniquity, to the punishment of a limited world.
　As soon as the crystal sandstorm passed, the landscape changed.
　It was a strange city. Every building, every plant, every person was made of crystal.
　Even the mountains in the distance, the canopy in the distance, and the flowing rivers were made of crystal.
　I could feel tremendous magical power from each and every one of them.
Hm. A world made of candiquisorte.

 

[Georredannea15]

No, since even with low 2-C, it can be upgraded to 5D.

You really shouldn't act like a child. Bleach is 5D with this logic LMAO

 

[Reiner04]

It says as long as there is a present, the future will revive even if it perishes. This is logical, since a present entails future. It never says "destroying the present won't mean anything." Can I ask which scan that phrase is from? That "destroying the present or even the world" won't mean anything?

Uhuh, my bad, got rolled up with "even if it perishes" and "only way to destroy".

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No read again instead of strawmanning read my arguments properly.
The futures are just possibilities and nafta can bring anyone of those futures to pass
now using the crystal nafta is able to create a world where the worst possible future comes to pass and traps her opponent in that world, but this world is not even a real world since it is aworld made of only crystals

And we do not even know the size of it, since this is all we got about size

What is your point? nafta is the one using the crystal and controls it so again what is your point?
Oh look he shot a gun, and then you come he is not the one shooting the bullet but the gun, who is holding the gun?
Also read

Continuation

this was what anos was sent to
It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.

Brody NAFTA never created the domain that's my point. You claimed she Created it which is false and she also didn't created the future. No you changing the argument into NAFTA was using the Chrystal? That changes many things because future which NAFTA induced on Anos already existed and NAFTA didn't created it hence that proves all possibilities already exists Physically.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You really shouldn't act like a child. Bleach is 5D with this logic LMAO

? Irrelevant

 

[wwereymy235]

You really shouldn't act like a child. Bleach is 5D with this logic LMAO

The reason MG was 6D in the first place was because the silver sea governed 99+ 5D layers. Even if the layers are 4D, then the silver sea will be 5D. Get it?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Brody NAFTA never created the domain that's my point. You claimed she Created it which is false and she also didn't created the future. No you changing the argument into NAFTA was using the Chrystal? That changes many things because future which NAFTA induced on Anos already existed and NAFTA didn't created it hence that proves all possibilities already exists Physically.

I am done with you, this are straightforward stuffs, and I am not interested in your strawmann or semantics so I will just wait for Deceived and Dread.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I am done with you, this are straightforward stuffs, and I am not interested in your strawmann or semantics so I will just wait for Deceived and Dread.

I just addressed your headcanon If you think that's strawmann or semantics i can't help it. People have eyes they can see who made that headcanon of NAFTA creating the domains.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I just addressed your headcanon If you think that's strawmann or semantics i can't help it. People have eyes they can see who made that headcanon of NAFTA creating the domains.

Tag where I said Nafta created Domains, I will be happy to wait

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Tag where I said Nafta created Domains, I will be happy to wait

this was what anos was sent to
It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain. A world made entirely of Crystals, creating the worst possible futures for whoever she traps inside. Later on she gains the ability to project the limited world in the real one for a short amount of time.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Raws

「この目が開くとき､ ナフタにはすべての未来が見えるで
しょう。 起こるべきすべての未来が、 あらゆる奇跡が、 未
来神ナフタの手の内にある。 あなたの手の隙間から、勝利
という未来はこぼれ落ち、 抗う可能性すら消え果てる 」
当たり前のように彼女は言う。
「風邪をこじらせて死ぬ者もいる。 転んで命を落とす者も
いる。 あらゆる者が神のサイコロを振り、その結果この世
を生きている。 ナフタに挑むのならば、 あなたを最悪の日
が襲うでしょう｣

TL:

When these eyes open, Nafta will see all the future.
"When these eyes open, Nafta will be able to see all the future. All the future that is to come, all the miracles that are to happen, are in the hands of Nafta, the God of the Future.
All future events, all miracles, are in the hands of Nafta, the god of the future. From the crevices of your hands, the future of victory will spill out.
The future of victory spills from the cracks of your hand, and even the possibility of resistance vanishes."
She says it as if it were a matter of course.
'Some die of a cold. Some fall down and die.
Some fall down and die. Everyone rolls God's dice and lives in this world as a result.
and as a result, they live in this world. If you challenge Nafta, the worst day of your life
will come upon you.

Raws:

「<未来世水晶> カンダクイゾルテは、この世界の数多の
未来、それは世界の形に等しいでしょう。 あなたの行い
は、世界と自分とどちらが先に滅ぶか比べようというも
の。 結論は火を見るよりも明らかでしょう」

TL:

'The <Crystal of the Future World> Kandakui Isolte is the first of the world's many
future, which will equal the shape of the world. Your deeds
is to compare who will perish first, the world or yourself.
the world or yourself. The conclusion will be clearer than fire."

Now this can also mean equally shape the world, I have asked a Jap speaking person for more TL on that

Raws:

「ナフタは宣誓します。 現在がここにある限り、未来は滅
びようとも何度でも蘇る。 <未来世水晶> を滅ぼすには、
あらゆる可能性を滅ぼすしかありません」
水晶の破片がみるみる数を増して、まるで輝く砂嵐のよ
うに、この場を包み込んでいく。
「其はあり得たかもしれぬ、 もう一つの世界の形。 咎人
よ、汝を、 限局世界の刑に処す｣

TL:

'Nafta takes an oath. As long as the present is here, the future will
'As long as the present is here, the future will rise again and again, no matter how many times it is destroyed. <To destroy the future crystal,
We have to destroy all possibilities.
The shards of crystal are growing in number and enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm.
The only way to destroy it is to destroy all possibilities.
It could have been, another form of the world. Iniquity
I sentence you to the punishment of a limited world.

Raws:

「神は秩序だ。代行者もまた同じ存在だろう。 未来神ナフ
タが見る数多の未来は、 その秩序によって構成されてい
る。 どれだけの力を持とうと秩序たる神には、秩序だった
未来を覆すことはできまい」

TL:

'God is order. The Delegate would be the same being. The future god Naphta sees many futures.
The many futures that Nafta sees are constructed by that order.
The future God Naphta sees is made up of that order. No matter how much power he has, the orderly God cannot overturn an ordered future.
The future of the orderly God cannot be overturned.

Raws:

「そんなわけがないさ。 飛べる未来が一つでもあれば、 そ
の未来は実現するからって、 この樹冠天球を飛べる未来な
んてあるわけが･･････」

Here is the translation

It can't be. If there is one future in which you can fly, you can fly.
"There is no such thing as a future in which you can fly through the canopy of the sky, because if there is one future in which you can fly, that future will come true.
There is no such thing as a future where we can fly in this canopy of the heavens. ・・・・・・"

Raws:

「未来はなに一つ決まってはいません。 ナフタの愛ととも
にそこには無限の可能性が広がり、人々は希望を胸に、 よ
りよい未来をつかみとる。 竜騎士団よ、 恐れることはあり
ません」

TL:

'Nothing is set in stone for the future. With Nafta's love, there are endless possibilities.
With Nafta's love there are endless possibilities, and with hope in their hearts, people will seize a better future.
With hope, people will seize a better future. The Dragon Knights, do not be afraid.
Do not be afraid."

 

[Georredannea15]

The reason MG was 6D in the first place was because the silver sea governed 99+ 5D layers. Even if the layers are 4D, then the silver sea will be 5D. Get it?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. And I would always defend 5D Silver sea, not 6D.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can you not read at all? we are here on you been semantic and I am being semantic in return
tag where I said "nafta created domains" what I said there was "It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain"
you said I claimed that nafta created domains, tag where I said it, you are not the only one who can be semantic about nonsense

I am not really understanding you?
Nafta can use the crystal to create a domain where the worst possible future comes to pass
and you are really on about that it was the crystal that can do that? the god of order of the future is the one who can use the crystal, and who is the god of order of the future? Na fing ta

So what is with the semantics whether it was nafta or the crystal when it was nafta using the crystal.
SMH

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Can you not read at all? we are here on you been semantic and I am being semantic in return
tag where I said "nafta created domains" what I said there was "It is one of nafta ability that allows her to create a domain"
you said I claimed that nafta created domains, tag where I said it, you are not the only one who can be semantic about nonsense

I am not really understanding you?
Nafta can use the crystal to create a domain where the worst possible future comes to pass
and you are really on about that it was the crystal that can do that? the god of order of the future is the one who can use the crystal, and who is the god of order of the future? Na fing ta

So what is with the semantics whether it was nafta or the crystal when it was nafta using the crystal.
SMH

If i can use a shotgun that doens't mean i created it. Both are different things. I already pointed out you claiming her ability makes her to create it which is wrong

 

[PrinceofPein]

If i can use a shotgun that doens't mean i created it. Both are different things. I already pointed out you claiming her ability makes her to create it which is wrong

oh false equivalence, a correct one will be
Using a rocket launcher and you destroyed a car.
And they asked who destroyed the car?
is the answer Rocket launcher or the person holding it?

Anyway dead the argument it is irrelevant here.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can we all concede she did not create it?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can we all concede she did not create it?

Created it or not does not matter to my argument
the point of the ability is to create a domain of crystal and trap the person in the worst possible future.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

oh false equivalence, a correct one will be
Using a rocket launcher and you destroyed a car.
And they asked who destroyed the car?
is the answer Rocket launcher or the person holding it?

Anyway dead the argument it is irrelevant here.

Yours is false Equivalence because of verse mechanism.

We are debating about Futures already existing here not that they are created later onwards. So your example doesn't make sense.

My point is Limited World already Existed
NAFTA gets access to it. There are infinite possibilities and she can send a character there and spam those infinite possibilities on them. Additionally if you want to destroy the world you need to destroy infinite possibilities. Where futures will change one after another if one future gets destroyed.

 

[wwereymy235]

Raws

TL:


Raws:

TL:

Now this can also mean equally shape the world, I have asked a Jap speaking person for more TL on that

Raws:

TL:


Raws:

TL:


Raws:

Here is the translation


Raws:

TL:

For the last translation. Nothing is set in stone for the future could mean that the PRESENT isn’t set in stone, not the future. If it said Nothing is set in stone in the future, then that would make more sense as to the futures just being possibilities. With NAFTAS love, there being endless possibilities, it means that there are endless futures for the people and with hope, they will live the best one. Now since the verse mechanic for order already materializes, it will change those possibilities into actual futures. Just my interpretation

 

[ImmortalDread]

Created it or not does not matter to my argument
the point of the ability is to create a domain of crystal and trap the person in the worst possible future.

Just concede it and move on.

 

[Georredannea15]

For the last translation. Nothing is set in stone for the future could mean that the PRESENT isn’t set in stone, not the future. If it said Nothing is set in stone in the future, then that would make more sense as to the futures just being possibilities. With NAFTAS love, there being endless possibilities, it means that there are endless futures for the people and with hope, they will live the best one. Now since the verse mechanic for order already materializes, it will change those possibilities into actual futures. Just my interpretation

I still think it's not enough but I respect your opinion bro.

 

[Trihexa102]

Read through the thread, reasons stated in Op seems logical, I agree with Op.(unless there is better evidence)

 

[PrinceofPein]

For the last translation. Nothing is set in stone for the future could mean that the PRESENT isn’t set in stone, not the future. If it said Nothing is set in stone in the future, then that would make more sense as to the futures just being possibilities. With NAFTAS love, there being endless possibilities, it means that there are endless futures for the people and with hope, they will live the best one. Now since the verse mechanic for order already materializes, it will change those possibilities into actual futures. Just my interpretation

Yeah, and I am glad you added just your interpretation, I prefer to be literal about scans like this.
Especially when it says "nothing is set in stone for the future" and you turn it to mean "nothing is set in stone for the present"
Sorry but that is just off the mark, since the present is happening already and already set in stone once a moment pass, so your argument makes no sense sorry.

Just concede it and move on.

"she can create a domain of crystal" is not wrong, since again she controls the crystal.
it is like not scaling green latern to any of his feat because he uses a ring.
but anyway I will concede and say, "Using the crystal, she can create a domain"

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yeah, and I am glad you added just your interpretation, I prefer to be literal about scans like this.
Especially when it says "nothing is set in stone for the future" and you turn it to mean "nothing is set in stone for the present"
Sorry but that is just off the mark, since the present is happening already and already set in stone once a moment pass, so your argument makes no sense sorry.

"she can create a domain of crystal" is not wrong, since again she controls the crystal.
it is like not scaling green latern to any of his feat because he uses a ring.
but anyway I will concede and say, "Using the crystal, she can create a domain"

The thing is, the domain is already created, she only utilized. Just concede it because I don't know when did you even claim it, but whatever.

 

[Deagonx]

And NAFTA said that's a limited world because she was sentencing Anos to death.

You have a trend here of arbitrarily dictating what words mean even though nothing in the text remotely supports that interpretation. Why would that make it a limited world?

 

[wwereymy235]

Yeah, and I am glad you added just your interpretation, I prefer to be literal about scans like this.
Especially when it says "nothing is set in stone for the future" and you turn it to mean "nothing is set in stone for the present"
Sorry but that is just off the mark, since the present is happening already and already set in stone once a moment pass, so your argument makes no sense sorry.

"she can create a domain of crystal" is not wrong, since again she controls the crystal.
it is like not scaling green latern to any of his feat because he uses a ring.
but anyway I will concede and say, "Using the crystal, she can create a domain"

What I meant by using the future is that some people are forced to do something for the rest of their life and nothing changes. That’s why they’re rejoicing NAFTA because she can choose the best possible future for them. Even if my argument is just total BS, the set in stone future wouldn’t help your argument. Since NAFTA chooses the best future of the endless possibilities that exist. And all the possibilities are materialized by order making them real, it’s just that NAFTA chooses the best one for the people for their life.

 

[Maxeez]

OP makes sense. Count me in the agree section for now.