Mamma mia, that's a lewd game (Mario vs Luka)

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Sleep incaps people and Mario can dominate people's wills with the Music Keys. He also use Empathic Manipulation and Reality Warping with them and he constantly uses these powers ina agme, so he'll definitely do it in-character.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Sleep incaps people and Mario can dominate people's wills with the Music Keys. He also use Empathic Manipulation and Reality Warping with them and he constantly uses these powers ina agme, so he'll definitely do it in-character.

The Baahammer isn't going to put someone to sleep for an entire day. So it's not an incap. He does it one game. One obscure game. It's not in character. Again, I'd like to see him using mind control with the music keys.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

He does it throughout the game. It being random for the franchise means nothing.

 

[Sptflcrw]

How is it not? Goku uses the Rock-Paper-Scissors thoughout Dragon Ball. Do we assume that DBS Goku is gonna use Rock-Paper-Scissors in character?

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

That's an older version of Goku with a different personality. Bad analogy.

 

[Sptflcrw]

That's an older version of Goku with a different personality. Bad analogy.

They both did something a few times a long time ago, and have never done it since. I don't see how it's a bad analogy.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Also, Luka doesn't really have much ways to win either.

His Void Manipulation is useless as Mario resists it and Sealing only works after an opponent has been defeated with Void Manipulation.

Mid-Low Regenerationn doesn't really do much as Mario easily bypasses it. His soul absorption only works on defeated foes.

And Mario basically has all of his other abilities, save Precognition and Beserk Mode.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

But it hasn't been a long time ago according to Mario lore. The same cannot be said for Kid Goku and Goku.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You're just saying that Luka can't hax him from the start. That doesn't mean he can't win.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Luka doesn't really have hax that works. And he has to beat Mario before he can use those things.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And? It doesn't matter. It's not an instant hax fight.

 

[Sptflcrw]

But it hasn't been a long time ago according to Mario lore. The same cannot be said for Kid Goku and Goku.

What do you mean? There is no Mario "lore." It was a long time ago, and it was in one game. And Luka has literally all the time in the world to think of a game plan. This is pretty unfair.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"He has to beat Mario before he uses those things"

Not impossible. Therefore, he can do it, due to Type 8 immortality resetting till he gets it right.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

A long time has passed between DB and DBS. Nothing in Mario claims that game was a long time ago. All the time in the world? He only reacts to things, but he can't dodge mental attacks such as all of Mario's star powers, which he uses throughout the Paper Mario series.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

"He has to beat Mario before he uses those things"
Not impossible. Therefore, he can do it, due to Type 8 immortality resetting till he gets it right.

Mario can incap him just by puching him so many times. Mario isn't bloodlusted and he never kills people in character.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It doesn't matter if Mario uses a specific power a lot in one game. He has tons of things he can use. And only a handful can actually incap Luka. Which is what he'd need to use to win.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Mario never kills people in character"

Except all those generic enemies getting stomped. Bowser being sent into lava or into the sun when he gets defeated or otherwise gets dealt with means that'd be lethal otherwise.

 

[Sptflcrw]

A long time has passed between DB and DBS. Nothing in Mario claims that game was a long time ago. All the time in the world? He only reacts to things, but he can't dodge mental attacks such as all of Mario's star powers, which he uses throughout the Paper Mario series.

It was made in 2005. Countless games have been made from then to now. Yeah, all the time in the world, considering that Mario can't kill him. Those star attacks are dodgable, and only sometimes work.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Luka's wincons also imply him icapacitating Mario, which is also unlikely. Mario consistenly uses his Star Powers in battle during the Paper Mario series. This includes Up & Away which BFRs and Lullaby which puts people to sleep.

 

[Jackythejack]

So have we got any votes so far or nah?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Luka incapcitating Mario is easy. Or even just outright killing him. Angel Halo automatically incaps when it defeats someone or even just outright erases them (The kind of erasure that ignores resistance and mid-godly).

Also again, Mario has tons of abilities to use. It's unlikely that he'd use the one that can incap instead of the lethal ones.

 

[Bobsican]

I think Mario can also time rewind like Luka.

Oh wait, that´s Bowser...

 

[Bobsican]

Also again, Mario has tons of abilities to use. It's unlikely that he'd use the one that can incap instead of the lethal ones.

Well, Mario doesn´t go around being bloodlusted, so he´ll lead with more minor stuff obviously.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Mario can incap him just by puching him so many times. Mario isn't bloodlusted and he never kills people in character.

In what way is that incap? Oh, so Mario would never kill someone, but he's perfectly fine with taking control of someone's mind. Besides, he does kill people. He's even killed Bowser before. Luka has plenty of winconditions, including just ******* manhandling Mario, consider he's more than twice as strong. Again, Mario does that in one game.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Bob I wouldn't consider instant win hax to be "minor". If anything, he'd lead with stuff like regular attacks with power ups or Cappy (which is dodgeable and lethal in the end)

 

[Bobsican]

Mario can also stat amp himself if he notices a notable gap in strength, and can also stat reduce Luka in the same fashion.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

He can also decrease Luka's stats (Via Chill Out or Battle Cards, which are used consistently), heal himself (Via Battle Cards, Mushrooms, Refresh, and Smooch), and stop time (Via Stop Watch, Battle Cards, and Time Out).

 

[Sptflcrw]

He can also decrease Luka's stats (Via Chill Out or Battle Cards, which are used consistently), heal himself (Via Battle Cards, Mushrooms, Refresh, and Smooch), and stop time (Via Stop Watch, Battle Cards, and Time Out).

Okay, so? What does any of that lead to? Luka just rewinds time if he dies.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And?

It doesn't incap Luka nor prevents him from eventually winning the war of attrition. Incap is Mario's only victory condition. I need proof that he'd use it before Luka defeats him once.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Mario never killed Bowser, except maybe for the original SMG. And Luka isn't an obvious bad guy in Mario's eyes. Mario is consistently portrayed as a good-natured hero. It wouldn't be in character for him to just keep punching someon until they're dead when they're already knocked out. And since when is Cappy fatal? Mario can easily amp his strength by two.

 

[Jackythejack]

Cappy has never killed anyone and...well, Mario is definitely no stranger to using Cappy a lot

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It doesn't matter how he's portrayed. He still casually kills tons of enemies and battles here are willing to kill anyway. Was there any time where he explictly held back to simply knock out his enemies? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

Cappy isn't lethal by itself, but it's not incap and won't lead anywhere unless Mario kills off Luka.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Yet again, those enemies are willing to help Bowser conquer the Mushroom Kingdom and even the universe. And I'm pretty sure that only happens in the platformers, in which case it all decides on if the player wants to kill or not. Can you show me an instance where Mario kills a KO'd opponent?

Or he could just get Luka to knock himself out. He doesn't need to kill him.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Mario never killed Bowser, except maybe for the original SMG. And Luka isn't an obvious bad guy in Mario's eyes. Mario is consistently portrayed as a good-natured hero. It wouldn't be in character for him to just keep punching someon until they're dead when they're already knocked out. And since when is Cappy fatal? Mario can easily amp his strength by two.

That's a lie. He does it NSMB. Bro, Mario ******* watched Bowser have his skin burn off and then pops off seconds afterward.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Mario could just use time stop (miracle badge) and repeat it since luka cant really counter time manipulation

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Doesn't mean that they deserve death. Hell I'm pretty sure a lot of the enemies are basically wild animals just attacking for food rather than being minions of pure evil.

Don't you dare imply that Mario would not kill a single enemy "canonically" even though killing enemies is a normal part of the games and is encouraged.

I can't show you an example. Because he just kills them on the spot instead.

See above. Characters are willing to kill by default here. Also if Mario is boosted 2x like you claim, he won't just be knocking out Luka.

Aaand that logic only works if Mario uses normal, non-hax attacks, in which case Luka probably has chances to win normally anyway.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Like I said before, Bowser's clearly a villain who won't stop at anything to achieve his goals. Luka has no idea who Luka is and won't automatically assume he's very evil.

 

[Jackythejack]

This is the most debate I've gotten on a thread

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't."

-SBA page

You can't get more explicit. Mario will kill.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

What do you mean it's encouraged? The only thing that even remotely implies that is that you get points. But that's just a way to get more points.

Probably because the enemies are like, millions of times weaker than him. When would a Goomba ever survive an attack from Mario?

If he amplifies his stats by 2, he'll be equal to Luka, not on the verge of killing him with two blows.

And possession can work without KOing or killing Luka. There is no limit to how long you can possess someone with Cappy. So Mario can just walk around possessing Luka for 24 hours.

And he'll probably do that if he accidentally kills Luka. Mario is an expert combat strategist and wouldn't just go for the same thing over and over agian.