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Major Zelda revisions

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Why don't we don't we scale them to a third of Tier 0 since the ToP is 1/3 of the omnipotent Triforce ovo

Has anyone checked the Hyrule Historia for any information that could help with the Zant and Light Spirits stuff? I would do it myself but I'm gonna be way too busy for most of the day to try and find anything.
 
We honestly shouldn't be using the Light Spirits as very little is known about them and what people are saying about their power is just assumptions and to state that together they're stronger than the Triforce of Power without any feasible solid proof is ridiculous

Just because they're power made the Light Arrows and that the Light Arrows can harm Ganondorf doesn't mean they're stronger than the TOP.The only person stronger than Zant and Ganondorf in TP is Link
 
They stun him while the master sword outright seals/kills him,so I don't see why that would suddenly make the light spirits stronger then Ganon merely due to being able to stun him.
 
If I remember correctly, Hylia used to guard the Triforce, so doesnt that imply that her power should be comparable?

Edit: Fused Shadow obliterated Zant after he got exhausted with his battle with Link. Dont think that should count.
 
Just to quickly say I don't think that Young Link should scale to King Dodongo. I mean the way you fight him is like how Toothless defeated the Red Death which I like how Luke Skywalker destroyed the Death Star. They didn't do any external damage to detroy them but instead exploited a weak-point.
 
?

Even ignoring that this isn't the place to talk about that, starting bosses in general scale to High 7-A in general. Also even if he exploited a weak poin,t that needed High 7-A Energy to exploit, so it doesn't even matter.
 
@Hagane, that's a complete derailment; plus they directly scale from the bombs that have the High 7-A calc. Which Young Link can also those same bombs.

Also, in Twilight Princess phase 3 for Ganondorf, the light arrows do legitimately harm Ganondorf and not just stun him. Also, Zant literally had to sneak attack Midna in order to take her out is another note. Fused Shadows also obliterate Zant when it was in turn obliterated by ToP Ganon. Also, it's still absurd for Light Arrows to have more power than Hylia, when it's heavily implied to be way weaker. Demise was also able to force Hylia to a near death state where she had to reincarnate herself as a mortal form where as he lived. And Light Arrows stunning Ganondorf is still harming someone even if it's non fatal; which the same thing could be said about Hylia vs Demise.

Anyway, the comparison between Demise and ToP is become to much of a circular argument.

Edit: Cal also said it below; everyone and everything in the Zelda Universe that isn't the Complete Triforce, certain Links, or Demise are mere specs of Hylia's power. Triforce fragments are specs of the Complete Triforce's power, which the Complete Triforce isn't too much stronger than Hylia or Demise, and Ganondorf is a spec of Demise's power.
 
Hylia's directly a servant to the Golden Goddesses themselves. The reason that gods can't use the TF is because it gives humans a fighting chance or something like that, which is why Hylia incarnated herself into Zelda. There's no way in heck anything short of the full TP is above her.
 
Except Demise. But yeah, Hylia should still be above by a wide margin of the Light Spirits, which are only comparable to ToP Ganon.

The Light Spirits are in no way comparable other than the fact that they made the Light Arrows which stun Ganondorf in the game as it is Link with the MS who kills/damaged him
 
Doesn't make him stronger? What! WHAT?

Demise has a stellar feat while ToP Ganon has Planetary ones. Saying they are causal and is hence stronger makes no difference. That's like saying Saitamas a star buster because he's always joking around
 
Zant was destroyed by Midna after he took a lot of attacks from Light Empowered MS Link.
 
Konaguna said:
Doesn't make him stronger? What! WHAT?
Demise has a stellar feat while ToP Ganon has Planetary ones. Saying they are causal and is hence stronger makes no difference. That's like saying Saitamas a star buster because he's always joking around
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Except that's not the implication whatsoever nor what I've stated. You've once again completely misconcepted what I've been stating. I'm saying that those planet feats don't suddenly make him weaker then Demise as their done casually not because he can do casual planet feats therefore he's star. Also that analogy makes no sense, Saitama has no star feats, Ganon has someone using his powers that did a star feat.
 
They don't make him as strong as him either lmao. You're the one constantly pulling some non sequitur by mindlessly scaling shit that makes no sense.

You don't get it that those planet feats are the best he has, because when Zant get all of his powers? Sounds like rubbish, I want scans or too can drop that. Also considered an outlier? Because someone who constantly has pkanetary feats and now someone that with just a bit of hispower is now several times stronger than him makes no sense my guy.

Not my point, my point was that your putting a character higher because of one already weak factor and because you think the word casually gives you free selection on the scale.
 
Except Demise. But yeah, Hylia should still be above by a wide margin of the Light Spirits, which are only comparable to ToP Ganon.

The Light Spirits are in no way comparable other than the fact that they made the Light Arrows which stun Ganondorf in the game as it is Link with the MS who kills/damaged him.Also Link is above Demise and Hylia and he did not use the Full Triforce to defeat Demise and Hylia was mortally wounded in her battle with him while as we see with Link in the ending cutscenes he's perfectly fine and not injured at all.Also the Light Spirits stomped Zant's whole race before Zant ever had the Triforce of Power so that's wrong too.Midna also killed Zant with the Fused Shadow's only after getting beaten by Link and even then Fused Shadow Midna fought Ganondorf and lost.There's no outlier here

I'm just saying outright that I see no feats or evidence that shows that Demise is above the Triforce of Power as I would say they're relatively equal due to Zant's feat
 
Regarding as few things Cal said because his arguments weren't even that great.

1.) Zant literally blows back both Lanayru and Link just by standing there. Please tell me how the Light Spirits > Ganon > Zant when Zant can just knock one back to that degree effortlessly.

2.) Zant getting killed by Midna with the Fused Shadow was him incredibly weakened from fighting Link already. You can clearly see this as well so this refute was no offense, but incredibly garbage as it ignores the context.

3.) Hylia being above Light Spirits is something confirmed in canon? No, not really. Even then, Light Spirits being above aren't even too impressive considering Zant sent normal minions to take care of them and it's obvious he's already above them. You're not really even giving any sufficient refutes as to why single Triforce piece wielders shouldn't be on par or superior. It's as simple as you seem to be denying it via doubt rather than actual evidence for the notio.
 
Again, read the specific details. No one said Light Spirits were stronger than Ganon, only that they were a threat to him. Also, altogether they are, not separately. Light Spirits are around 6-B individually but High 5-A together. Zant knocked away Lanaryu when Lanaryu didn't have help from other Spirits so that's not a counter argument. Link was also a lot weaker back than as he didn't have Master Sword or training from Hero's Shade.

Hylia is the literal source the Light Force's power; that's a tiny spec of Hylia's power. While at the same time, the Light Spirits aren't really above the Light Force either, and if anything, their just a fraction of the Light Force as well.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Again, read the specific details. No one said Light Spirits were stronger than Ganon, only that they were a threat to him. Also, altogether they are, not separately. Light Spirits are around 6-B individually but High 5-A together. Zant knocked away Lanaryu when Lanaryu didn't have help from other Spirits so that's not a counter argument. Link was also a lot weaker back than as he didn't have Master Sword or training from Hero's Shade.

Hylia is the literal source the Light Force's power; that's a tiny spec of Hylia's power. While at the same time, the Light Spirits aren't really above the Light Force either, and if anything, their just a fraction of the Light Force as well.
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Still no feasible proof

Being a threat to doesn't mean equal to in power and nothing has shown that the Light Spirits are on the same level as The Triforce of Power other than Light Arrows that only STUN Ganondorf the Light Spirits should be dropped from the equation as they're very mysterious and all of these stagings with them are assumptions which is stretching for an outlier to counter the feat

Again your wrong,Zant's feat of casually stomping a Light spirit without doing anything is clearly showing that he dominated Laynuru.Its honestly a much larger stretch to say that together they would threaten Zant then all of them being stomped as the Light spirits greatest feat altogether is only capable of stunning Ganondorf.Again we should drop the Light Spirit stuff as all of this is just theories and assumptions that is honestly just trying to stretch and create a counter to the feat.

Vader:There's no OUTLEIR
 
Quote from Cal, "Demise=Hylia>>>>Light Spirits (combined)=Light Arrows=ToP Ganondorf>Zant"

They're not a threat to him, Light Arrows quite literally only stun Ganondorf and the reason for such is because he's literally pure darkness and evil versus the holy, divine, and light based properties of the area so it's logical they harm him based on exploited weakness, not because of AP like you're trying to misrepresent right now.

Also, there doesn't seem to be much actually even supporting Combined Light Spirits > Zant. Zant already blew back Lanayru casually, it realistically shouldn't make a difference with the four of them with general logic. Even then, this is pure unsubstantiated headcanon otherwise.

No... He had training from Hero's Shade like WAY before that. I really am doubting you've played Twilight Princess if you don't know that sequential order of events. I like how you're trashing my refutes as garbage, then go on to use similar logic that's hypocritical to what you're saying.

That's still not proof Hylia > Triforce of Power/Courage/Wisdom. The Light Force doesn't have a legitimate comparison to any Triforce piece, that in of itself needs to be removed from the profile. And we've already been over Zant should be massively superior to them already.

The scaling doesn't work like that and you're siding with wilfully ignorant statements to make a point. Even if the High 4-C feats are legitimate, I see absolutely no reason why Demise doing a High 4-C feat should automatically mean this is an outlier. He did that casually, meaning it wasn't even his best showing. We have no reason to assume this as an outlier whatsoever, the points being made against it are honestly weak when Demise and Hylia would be like At least High 4-C regardless.
 
Lanaryu was still on his own, and Light Spirits are portrayed as being astronomically stronger when together as seen during the battle with Ganon.

Anyway, stunning Ganondorf would still be threatening in a technical sense. And we didn't mean to say that Zelda's Light Arrows are quite on par with Ganon, only that they are within the same Tier as him and Zant. Also, again, look at examples such as the The Elder Gods from Mortal Kombat; they got casual Low 6-B feats and despite that, they were able to defeat a Low 2-C character with their combined might. Light Spirits are the same scenario.

You'd have to ask Dark649 about the Light Force scaling, some of us a while back did propose a downgrade for the Minish Cap cast, but he was the one said they were fair game with the details provided.

I've played through Twilight Princess multiple times; including a 100% and a three heart challenge. Anyway, Link has only had basic training from Hero's shade; he did not complete his training. And as mentioned above, Link doesn't officially become as strong as the main villains of various Zelda games until the end game; his power gradually grows as the story progresses. But that's beside the point.

There's still little to no validity to Zant's supposed High 4-C feat other than him merely teleporting Link to either the places themselves or mirror locations resembling those locations. Scaling from in depth lore or mentioning that literal avatars are weaker than the original god forms is legit scaling. ToP Ganon or ToW Zelda still lack the feats to compare to their true forms.
 
What!? Where is it shown that they scared off Zant he never was scared your just making things up to support your claim and Midna never helped Lanaryu it was Zant FORCING Lanaryu to bring Midna to the light world to kill her he was never scared off

The Arrows don't damage Ganondorf so they wouldn't scale to him as he shrugs off the hit like nothing the Master Sword actually is one that would scale as it can harm Ganondorf it's not debatable.

For the millionth time it can't be illusions as all the things Zant makes in the realm are physical which includes the water,Twilight Barriers,Pots,items in the pots it would be more of a stretch to say they're illusions at that point.Its not teleportation as the Master Sword is still glowing during the Boss fight which means they must be in the Twilight Realm which it only glows in the Twilight Realm.Unless you have actual proof to debunk it don't bring up it being illusions or BFR
 
This scene, Zant outright mentions that he "needs her". I'm going to go my bad on misremembered as it's been a few years, but don't accuse a staff member of false crimes. Okay, Lanaryu didn't over power Zant on his own, but he still failed to kill Midna.

They do damage him, as it's still shocking/burning him. Even if it doesn't kill him, the fact is they still hurt him. He's literally knocked off his horse after 4 shots.

I said mirrors, pots being solid or physical doesn't mean doesn't mean anything about it having a real sun. And considering those are all areas that were previously withing the Twilight warped regions of Hyrule, it makes sense for mirror image locations to exist in the twilight Realm. But once again, no High 4-C feat was seen in the battle what so ever.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
This scene, Zant outright mentions that he "needs her". I'm going to go my bad on misremembered as it's been a few years, but don't accuse a staff member of false crimes. Okay, Lanaryu didn't over power Zant on his own, but he still failed to kill Midna,and remeber Zant is more powerful than Zelda as shown at the beginning of the game where he forced her to submit at the beginning of the game and it's stated that the Triforce of Power is stronger than the Triforce of Wisdom.

They do damage him, as it's still shocking/burning him. Even if it doesn't kill him, the fact is they still hurt him. He's literally knocked off his horse after 4 shots.

I said mirrors, pots being solid or physical doesn't mean doesn't mean anything about it having a real sun. And considering those are all areas that were previously withing the Twilight warped regions of Hyrule, it makes sense for mirror image locations to exist in the twilight Realm. But once again, no High 4-C feat was seen in the battle what so ever.
Click to expand...
Yes,Zant fails to kill Midna but not because he can't it's because Zant forced Lanaryu to bring Midna to the Light World which is like poison to a twili.Lanayru was able to BFR Link and Midna to Hyrule Castle and tells Link that the Princess is the only one who can save Midna and return Link to his Human form.Its also implied that the Princess with the Triforce of Wisdom should be superior to the Light spirits as Zelda was stated to be the only one who could save her.Zant only brought her to the Light World to kill her and she would have died without the aid of Zelda

Again the Light Arrows don't hurt him they just stun him.In the fight you can spend the whole fight just shooting Light Arrows at him and you would never move on to the next phase as its Link with the Master Sword who hits Ganondorf and knocks him off not the arrows themselves

It's very odd that an illusion would heal Link in the pots and it's more of a stretch to say It's all an illusion when several physical items and aspects in the fight prove otherwise and even then Pocet dimension revisions would count this as an offical feat

I'm not accusing you of anything I just feel that if your opposing the feat you should'nt use fabricated evidence as it only slows down the progression of the thread
 
This too much denial of a feat. Zant hasn't even shown illusion creation on this scale and it takes far more assumptions to assume it's an illusionary world rather then just him warping it.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
This too much denial of a feat. Zant hasn't even shown illusion creation on this scale and it takes far more assumptions to assume it's an illusionary world rather then just him warping it.
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Yeah I feel like the arguments against Zant's feat being an outleir and a stretch are far greater assumptions and stretches than the plausibility of the feat itself
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I've played through Twilight Princess multiple times; including a 100% and a three heart challenge. Anyway, Link has only had basic training from Hero's shade; he did not complete his training. And as mentioned above, Link doesn't officially become as strong as the main villains of various Zelda games until the end game; his power gradually grows as the story progresses. But that's beside the point.
Click to expand...
"Basic training" all the training Hero's Shade give sLInk is abilities and skills that no other swordsman of Link's era knows about since he couldn't convey his teachings. None of that is "basic training".
 
And again, Zant has never shown to create a Sun, and just because the pots that contains healing hearts or the water is real, doesn't mean the sky is real. Not to mention healing hearts are more so game mechanics. Also, it is loosely stated that the Twilight Realm is around the same size as Hyrule is. It doesn't even have a real sun and instead just has two little tiny orbs that generate light; and as others said, it they would at best be High 6-A since the orbs or Twilight Realms "Sun" lacks any calcs higher than that.

And again, Link still only learned some of the basics from Hero's Shade; advanced for soldier standards yes, but basic for Hero of Time standards still. But more important, he still doesn't scale from him till end game.
 
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