Major Zelda revisions

[Oblivion_Lightning]

All I can really prove is that i took a screenshot of it in my phone

And that's where I found it on my phone

 

[Dust_Collector]

Listen dude it's fine, I'm pretty sure most of us believe you simply found a photoshopped image without knowing it. In any case at this point High 4-C looks to be out of the question as we don't see a sun and there's no reason for scaling between Ganon and Demise due to lack of comparisons we can make between them besides the obvious ALTTP Ganon >> Demise.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Thanks and yeah Zant stuff can be dropped unless there's a legit pic of the sun in the realm

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I'll follow up to DDM in a second, but I'm going to download some Zant fights and analyze frame by frame to see if the image is legit as a perspective. If it is, I think the point can still be addressed and discussed but this is going to probably take a couple hours, but I'll try to report my results back to the thread. The idea the image might be fake really didn't cross my mind and it wouldn't be much of a warranted topic to discuss this if the basis is fundamentally wrong.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I'm going to point this out right now, there is background progression in this fight:

No clouds - https://youtu.be/h3aQP0jIC10?t=1038

Some clouds - https://youtu.be/h3aQP0jIC10?t=1063

More clouds- https://youtu.be/h3aQP0jIC10?t=1099

What we're trying to assume here is some random zelda fan decided "Hm, I feel like randomly placing a sun in this background of zant and putting it in so perfectly that it doesn't look like a photosshopped image". Which is just silly.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There was coding behind it to actually proved that it was photoshopped as downloading the image opens up to photoshop coding. And yes, the clouds do move, but does't change the fact that the sky is yellow, and even in the third link, you can see what's sort of a ball shaped yellow, that's circled by clouds and mountains.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Where is the proof it is coded exactly?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Giver

Yet the image used was published as a file that can be manipulated to look like any other file (that's what a octet file does) to mask the fact that it had gone through photoshop as my capture proved. Anyway, will take a look at the videos in a moment.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

But practically can't any image be digitally manipulated? Adobe Photoshop, Fireworks, Pixlr, or even MS Paint can allow you to do such things. Just because it could be manipulated in such a way doesn't mean it objectively is.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Inverted, Right here, Lephyr was the one who checked the image and found this info.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Again, what is this supposed to tell me?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Inverted

Couple with the fact that in the video we can't see such an object, searching the image on google brings no result, that whoever uploaded it tried to hide it's original file designation, and seeing that it had gone through photoshop, the conclusion is quite clear.

 

[Dust_Collector]

So I have no idea how true this is, but my friend said that apparently the Hero Mode of the HD remaster makes minor graphical changes to the game and there's a visible sun in the Zant fight only in that mode. Would be worth looking into that and might explain why the image Oblivion posted was edited, could have been simply flipped to match the regular game.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I was searching through online playthroughs and there was a sun in one of the HD ones, I think it was also in a Hero Mode one like Dust implied above. So yeah, you'd be correct in assuming that it's not in the GameCube/Wii release.

I'm asking for you to still give proof it was photoshopped, you didn't explain how. Secondly, reverse image search can sometimes be awful. That's not me trying to ignore the point either, the web is just generally a big place and it makes sense that they aren't going to find every photo result. And when you see the text alteration, that can literally come from changing the name or converting to a different file format.

And if we're assuming it's correct, what reason do we have to assume the edit was done for if it wasn't used to falsely upgrade a verse?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah I just checked Vinesauces playthough of the game since I remembered he did hero mode and sure enough there was a sun. So I guess it really is a detail they added in for Hero Mode, I still can't find a single video or image showing a sun in the normal mode even with the visible progression of the background but the second I looked at Hero Mode, instant glowy ball. This also means that Oblivions image was likely taken from Hero Mode and for whatever reason was flipped to match the regular game.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

If there's a sun then I'm for the upgrade


This sky looks far more different than the one in the fight

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Here's a fight for Hero Mode and it really looks no different and still has a bright yellow sky and dark clouds where you sometimes just see small open circles of sky in the clouds. Also, that image above has a lot more clouds yes, but the clouds and sky are individually similar color to the ones seen in Zant's fight; only the clouds look darker due to being thicker.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Also just checked another Hero Mode playthough (This time by TetraNinja) and yeah again large orange circle. It's so weird how they seemingly added a sun just for the hard mode of the remaster, still for the life of me can't find anything reassembling a sun in that fight in anything else other than that mode.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Inverted

I could care less about the intentions. The image used showed sketchy stuff that let to the conclusion that it was most likely edited. I reported that. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, if there is indeed evidence otherwise, such as what Dust exposed, then all I can give is an apology for assuming the alternative, as I was led to believe that based on what was presented.

Edit: Btw, I go back on being neutral on Zant stuff. I will let others discuss if it's an outlier. Just saying that Demise nor Hylia should be used to argue that, as has been heavily debated in the thread.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Occam's Razor yet again, you're just taking every assumption against this feat at this point. If the cloud are moving, we have no reason to not assume something the sun didn't descend. All of the light in the sky would similarly prove this is a sun. We see a sunset and the light we see in the sky was not spherical like the object we see. To say it's not a sun is ridiculous at this point.

 

[Mephistus]

https://youtu.be/I6bLYN-fUs4?t=6701

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, I finally do see a sun here. @Inverted, you were already told countless times to stop assuming that I'm assuming. It was really like that until Hero Mode, but it's still and odd graphics.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

This isn't to amp my argument by the way I'm not saying this to make more right cause it's in practice a fallacy, but what I basically want to point out is I asked several friends, associates, zelda fans, non-zelda fans, etc. and they've all said the same thing with the two images that both Oblivion and Dust showed. "Yes that is a sun" or "It looks like a sun to me" again, it's not to amp my argument, it's just to point out this isn't just some random thing we're assuming from just me, oblivion, sixo, and inverted.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Would anyone mind making a new thread? This one keeps lagging and has trouble loading comments for me due to having nearly 400 replies.

Also would still like input from Azzy.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I just want to point this out one last time as well because people keep complaining about the scaling. I want to note to all of what the "At least" rating means.

"Should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate." - https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Potency

This doesn't mess up the scaling whatsoever. It would imply that singular Triforce users are just a solid High 4-C, nothing higher or less. We already give Hylia and Demise both "At least High 4-C," meaning they are likely even above the tier, but we just can't give a determinant value consider Demise's feat was done casually. This means that the scaling would still be fine.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I made a new thread here

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do agree that we may need Azathoth's approval before making the changes though as he's usually the one that debunks much of the massive upgrades for Zelda. But maybe this one might be different. Anyway, I will close this thread and continue there.