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Major Zelda revisions

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Okay, had another long day at work, but so too tired to right a longer post addressing every point in detail, but I'm still mostly in agreement with Triforce here. He mentioned something about a more accurate Italian translation debunking Zant's feat.

Also, I really need to point out that all the long quotes do serve to make the thread a lot messier.
 
It's ok take your time and rest

But if what the translation is saying is offical it's still contradicting literally the games description and logic as the Sword glowing disproves it being teleportation
 
>WW: Game mechanics or something similar to what Chandler does. Saying Ganon randomly moves the the sun everytime you get near the island is just ignoring any logic. Like, is Ganondorf stalking Link so that everytime he tries to approach the island the sun sets? Lol.

"True Night: Chandler's magic power is immense enough to shroud the entire region around him in darkness. Stars are visible in the sky and according to Merlin he brings "true night." This ability allows him to constantly benefit from the Demon Clan's increase in magic power at night."

>zant: B.
 
@Inverted Tempest and @Sixo Bullets, Triforce already addressed that tha Vaati's supposed 4-A feat and the Sol orbs being Star level were dismissed and should be dropped. Triforce already explained the latter in detail about it just being light rather than GBE, but for the former; there's no mention or proof that Vaati created space; or even a realm. It merely said he spread darkness across the "Castle"; it's not the same thing as other pocket reality feats. But let's move on from both of those.

Now back to you @Inverted about Demise, his High 4-C feat is legit and Triforce mentioned that he used the Triforce to kill the weakened Imprisoned. And he didn't have the True Master Sword at the time was the real reason as mentioned above, which was something he absolutely needed in order to even stand a chance against Demise. Me mentioning that Demise was overall below the complete Triforce doesn't contradict main point at all; but rather just sharing details on both sides. Both versions are High 4-C scaling from their own feats regardless of which character/force is superior.

As for the Master Sword @Konaguna, the Master Sword isn't just some ordinary sword that's solely dependant on its wielder, it's a magic sword that also enhances the weilder's strength. It's also got multiple forms where Skyward Sword and A Link to the Past are the only ones where the full potential are truly awakened.

Now back to debating with @Giver and @Inverted, In the ending of Skyward Sword, most of its power was pretty much depleted upon slaying Demise reverting back to it's 2nd strongest form at the time as opposed to the True form which is the same form seen in Ocarina and Twilight Princess. Now to debunk the Wind Waker incident, it the beginning, the Master Sword was basically weakened a 2nd time to be the Goddess Sword form; but the two temples basically enhance to become Goddess Longsword and than back to Master Sword (same one from OoT and TP, and not the True MS). And okay, Golden Sword was a more amped up Master Sword blessed by a Great Fairy meant to counter the Complete Triforce; and that's High 4-C to an overall greater extent than True Master Sword for reasons mentioned above; but there's no proof of either of them scaling to Triforce fragments or ToP Ganondorf.

Anyway, let's keep the focus on Zant's feat or ToP Ganondorf's feat. Ganondorf moving the sun around was agreed to be the most speculative and that either flipping the Earth or stopping the Earth's rotation are the two more likely possibilities. And as Triforce said, Nintendo of America has been known for making poor translations which includes the context behind Zant's feat in game. The European guidebook Triforce mentioned translates the original Japanese context of accurately about Zant's feat simply being teleportation rather than a Reality Warping feat/creation feat.
 
No offense DDM but your refute was mostly "triforce said this so you're wrong" even though they've both refuted triforce you didn't even attempt to refute their refutes.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Now back to debating with @Giver and @Inverted, In the ending of Skyward Sword, most of its power was pretty much depleted upon slaying Demise reverting back to it's 2nd strongest form at the time as opposed to the True form which is the same form seen in Ocarina and Twilight Princess. Now to debunk the Wind Waker incident, it the beginning, the Master Sword was basically weakened a 2nd time to be the Goddess Sword form; but the two temples basically enhance to become Goddess Longsword and than back to Master Sword (same one from OoT and TP, and not the True MS). And okay, Golden Sword was a more amped up Master Sword blessed by a Great Fairy meant to counter the Complete Triforce; and that's High 4-C to an overall greater extent than True Master Sword for reasons mentioned above; but there's no proof of either of them scaling to Triforce fragments or ToP Ganondorf.
Click to expand...
I don't get where your point even is here, again what proof is there inside of this entire paragraph that Demise is superior to ToP Ganondorf? That's still a baseless headcanon that's just been assumed.
 
> Completely ignoring the scientific details given. And it wasn't just him but also Dark649 and Azathoth said on other threads. As well as other details I have given. Not to mention those counter refutes never had weight to begin with it was just repeating what what already refuted.

Don't create a strawman. Also, the word Headcanon needs to stop; especially since ToP Ganon nor Zant ever demonstrated feats on Demise's level either.
 
"Triforce already addressed that tha Vaati's supposed 4-A feat and the Sol orbs being Star level were dismissed and should be dropped. Triforce already explained the latter in detail about it just being light rather than GBE, but for the former; there's no mention or proof that Vaati created space; or even a realm. It merely said he spread darkness across the "Castle"; it's not the same thing as other pocket reality feats. But let's move on from both of those."

41/81 of your words was relevant "triforce already addressssed this/triforce already explained this. So as I said, your reply to them was mostly "triforce said this". How did they not have weight when they didn't repeat what's already been refuted and triforce outright strawmanned at one point and completely missed one of Sixo's scans referring to the sols.


Wherre here did i strawman? This is objectively a headcanon unless you can show in-verse where it's stated Demise is superior to ToP, it's a headcanon.

"headcano. Noun. (uncountable) (fandom slang) Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official cano."

There's already discussion on Zant's feat possibly being at Demise's level.
 
ToP Ganon ain't as strong or stronger than Demise, and Zant isn't even near tier 4, that's absolute wank.

Demise did fodorrize a goddess so badly she became thicc meat And he's the source of evil for crying out loud.

He has a stellar feat while ToP Ganon has only Planetary feats, that's the reality.

Plus Demise has a master sword of his own so you might even be abel to ay he is powered by it as well
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
There's already discussion on Zant's feat possibly being at Demise's level.
Click to expand...
So a guy powered by a dude who's liek Planetary is supposed to be equal to a star level feat?

SEEMS LEGIT
 
Konaguna said:
So a guy powered by a dude who's liek Planetary is supposed to be equal to a star level feat?

SEEMS LEGIT
Click to expand...
What even is this refutation? You realize the planetary feat is done casually correct?
 
Konaguna said:
ToP Ganon ain't as strong or stronger than Demise, and Zant isn't even near tier 4, that's absolute wank.
Demise did fodorrize a goddess so badly she became thicc meat And he's the source of evil for crying out loud.

He has a stellar feat while ToP Ganon has only Planetary feats, that's the reality.

Plus Demise has a master sword of his own so you might even be abel to ay he is powered by it as well
Click to expand...
Demise didn't fodderize the golden goddeses, so this isn't even relevant. Why is this least bit relevant? Ganondorf with ToP has Nayru who is the source of power.

ToP Ganon's planet feats are done casually so this doesn't debunk anything. Zant has a tier 4 feat done and he borrows Ganon's powers.

Prove that sword is an actual legitimate master sword. This is once again pure headcanon.
 
Konaguna said:
Doesn't matter when he has no higher feats than Planetary
Click to expand...
It actually does, casually does not mitigate him to being only planetary, that's just a feat he can do casually. This doesn't debunk anything and is pure foolishness.
 
I never said he fodorized the GGs I said he fodorizzed Hylia.

Nayru? Triforce of Power? What the **** have you been smoking?

Those are the only feats he has my guy, anything higher is an assumption

It's the exact dark copy of it, and it acts the same way as fi does, it is just its darker version.
 
It actually does, casually does not mitigate him to being only planetary, that's just a feat he can do casually. This doesn't debunk anything and is pure foolishness.

Aight bruh, show me scans of higher feats or make his stats up for all I care
 
Alright again, how is this relevant? ToP shares a small portion of goddess Din's essence.

Mb meant Din, mixed them up.

You're repeating yourself like a broken record and are ignoring the very existence of powerscaling. The lower end feats he's done are once again casual nothing you've said here disproves anything.

Again, that doesn't prove it's a master sword of it's own. Where does it even act the same way Fi does? I don't see Girihiam giving Demise probability statistics for how a fight will work.
 
A small portion my guy, thisnportion is dictated by the Planetary feats he's shown.

And I said give me fears they r above Planetary

You realize fi is the spirit of the sword as well as Ghirahim is? They are built in the exact same way, Fi just doesn't fight and analyzes shit unlike Ghirahim who's perhaps even more impressive than her
 
That's not even my point, my point is that how is him defeating Hylia relevant or make him stronger then Ganon with the ToP when he shares Din essence regardless?

You can repeat this all day, it's not going to suddenly change basic powerscaling. Zant has a High 4-C warping feat and shares Ganondorf's power, his planetary feats are done superbly casual that wouldn't disclose Ganondorf coming higher.

How is this relevant? You realize the master sword took a bunch of items along with fi to made correct? You need to objectively prove Ghirahim's sword is a master sword.

You have also still yet to prove how Demise is stronger then ToP Ganondorf then mentioning that Demise has a higher feat which is irrelevant when both feats were done casually and doesn't give them a definite placement. This is pure headcano.
 
I'm honestly tired of saying this but the guide was debunked as it contradicts the Master Sword mechanic in game. The guide is not a feasible counter to Zant's feat and I do not really see any possible counters that haven't been debunked against Zant and feel that an upgrade is in order
 
"B: Zant is simply teleporting you and himself to the actual areas in Hyrule rather than warping the Twilight Realm and creating a sun or he's using high level illusion creation to make his throne room look like these areas."

Also: Kaguya Ōtsutsuki and her dimensions want a word with everyone wanting to upgrade Zant.
 
Oh boy gotta post this again... Anyway it's not teleportation as Link's Sword is still glowing in the fight which it only does when in the Twilight Realm

In the Palace of Twilight, Link fuses the Master Sword with the power of the Sols. This Light-Infused Master Sword enables Link to defeat most monsters of Twilight in a single blow. The sword is also capable of clearing away the Dark Fog that causes Link to revert back to wolf form.[33] This upgrade is only usable while in the Twilight Realm.

It's quite the stretch to say it's illusions when everything else in the realm like the pots,the items in said pots,barriers that Zant surrounds you with are all physical
 
@PaChi2

We both know Kaguya's feat wasn't accepted because it was way above everything else in the entire series. This is not the case here, as we're discussing the ratings of the High Tiers here. And yeah, game confirms you're still in the Twilight Realm.

"Light filled the Master Sword! Its blade glows with a golden light in the Twilight Realm. With it, you can cut through dark fog!" — N/A (Twilight Princess)

Illusions don't immediately create lakebeds filled with water though.
 
Even if Zant warped the realm a random sun in the sky doesnt hold up a tier 4 upgrade. Same case as Kaguya and her dimensions.
 
@Oblivion

Don't quote statements from the Zelda Wiki as it's not accepted as proof as it's not canon. You have to quote the game itself. Anyway, I'm neutral leaning on agreeing about Zant's feat. Basically everything points out to it being legit, the only remaining thing is whatever it's an outlier or not.
 
It does if there is consistency behind said feats. Kaguya's feat is a massive outlier in of itself, it's not remotely the same thing here. Ganon already does what we regard as a potentially 4-C feat in Wind Waker, it's not the same case whatsoever and is rendered as a false equivalency. Or else, we might as well discount Lumine's feat by similar merit.
 
Most of your refutes are just saying "no he's not higher than Planetary," rather than presenting an actual argumentative basis, so this should be ignored.
 
It does if there is consistency behind said feats. Kaguya's feat is a massive outlier in of itself, it's not remotely the same thing here. Ganon already does what we regard as a potentially 4-C feat in Wind Waker, it's not the same case whatsoever and is rendered as a false equivalency. Or else, we might as well discount Lumine's feat by similar merit.

...sigh.

Anyway, I dont care.
 
Because Planetary feats are the best he's shown? You can say he's done them casually all you want, that doesn't make shit higher if he had no feats to back them up.

Ghirahim is the dark master sword are you a dumbass? It made Demise on par with link who had the sword in the first place. They are both he only swords that have a living essence bound to them what more proof do you want? They even both have the ability to use Skyward strike.

You're entire argument is basically: He did those feats casually so that gives me the right to set them higher than a definite higher feat.

The actual feats are Planetary, if you have any feat that puts him higher then be my guest and show it otherwise sit down and zip it, because you obviously don't realize a pure feat is the most major indicator of one's strength.
 
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