Major MHA Speed Upgrade

[Damage3245]

Twice dodging Todoroki is proof that he's superhuman, Twice being able to fight the liberation army is also proof

Okay, but how is this support for using the fighter pilot figure for Twice's perception? I don't doubt that Twice has superhuman speed, in general, but trying to use the highest possible figure for Twice's perception speed to increase the value of the calc just sits wrong with me.

The current calc for Shoto's ice speed is also extremely generous since it assumes the ice was formed solely in the time it took Aizawa to blink. Really only a few meters of it could have formed in that time and that would be enough to shield Shoto from view allowing him to create the rest of the ice.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

If you agree with Twice being superhuman and you've provided a scan of him reacting to Todoroki's ice then why can't peak human perception be used on a superhuman character?

The ice calc is virtually irrelevant since Shouto scales to 5% Deku and Stain

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ask Therefir and anyone else that accepted the fighter pilot speed, they're the ones that think it's fine to use.

Todoroki's giant ice wall did in fact form before Aizawa could finish blinking, it was the center point of Momo's entire plan, and it's explicitly stated that the giant wall needed to be made in that interval of time. Only a couple meters forming to block Aizawa then making more sounds like headcanon, because it seemed quite clear he formed all of that ice in the time it took Aizawa to blink.

 

[Damage3245]

> Todoroki's giant ice wall did in fact form before Aizawa could finish blinking, it was the center point of Momo's entire plan, and it's explicitly stated that the giant wall needed to be made in that interval of time.

All they need is enough ice to be formed to block Aizawa's view before he can finish blinking, not the entrie thing to be created before he can finish blinking.

I didn't say it was only a couple of meters, I said that it would have only have taken a few.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

You're ignoring the context of what Momo is saying though. She's telling Todoroki to make the entire giant ice wall before Aizawa opens his eyes from blinking, an ice wall similar to what he did in the sports festival. The chapter and anime then frames it as Shoto making the entire wall before Aizawa opens his eyes from blinking. Yes, he could have blocked his view with less than what he did, but that doesn't matter because that isn't what he did. He made the giant ice wall the millisecond his quirk came back.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Bump

 

[Therefir]

Why is Todoroki's ice argument still being brought back? We have discussed it many times already.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Therefir, is there any reason that the fighter pilot perception speed specifically is used? Damage seems to think it's faulty and shouldn't be allowed, so I just want to clarify that it's actually ok to use.

 

[Therefir]

The reason Damage thinks that using this perception speed is wrong is because it was calculated by putting the fighter pilots under special conditions.

I think it can still be used not only because MHA characters are much, much superior to peak humans, but also because it is only a few times faster than the perception speed of a normal human, making the difference very similar to the peak human and normal human reaction speed, and I don't see anyone complaining about using the peak human reaction speed.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

If there are no other objections could the proposed changes be implemented?

 

[Damage3245]

Why is Todoroki's ice argument still being brought back? We have discussed it many times already.

Because it's now being used as the main support for Twice having 0.00454545454 second reactions.

 

[Spinoirr]

I agree with ther

 

[Damage3245]

Could we at least try calcing all of the feats with both versions of reaction speed and seeing what the results are?

 

[Sora_and_buff_riku]

I agree with ther too.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

This weekend I will calc the speed feats using both values and present the results here, then we can decide on the best route to go on.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Ok

 

[Therefir]

Could we at least try calcing all of the feats with both versions of reaction speed and seeing what the results are?

Nighteye's Throwing Speed (Low-End) = Mach 3.08, Supersonic+

Nighteye's Throwing Speed (High-End) = Mach 8.82, Hypersonic

Gran Torino's Casual Speed (Low-End) = Mach 1.17, Supersonic

Gran Torino's Casual Speed (High-End) = Mach 3.3, Supersonic+

As you can see, the results are more consistent using peak human perception speed. Although, not many people would be able to scale from Nighteye's feat, as his combat speed has proven to be much faster than Deku's at 8%. Nighteye's speed ratings and the people comparable/superior to him would be "At least Supersonic+ with Hypersonic reactions and combat", while Gran Torino should be just plain "Hypersonic" scaling from his own feat. Characters like 5%/8% Deku would be "Supersonic+/At least Supersonic+" respectively scaling from a casual Gran Torino.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think we can say he is much faster than 8% Deku; he has precognition in that scene.

Low End seems just as consistent to me.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Nighteye is notably faster than Deku though he could contend with Overhaul while 8% Deku nearly died on the first attack

 

[Damage3245]

@Insert; Nighteye also used precognition on Chisaki to be fair.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

He was able to dodge and tag Overhaul though and Nighteye being Mach 8 isn't too big since 5% Deku scales to Mach 3.3 while inexperienced and 8% is a lot faster

 

[Therefir]

I don't think we can say he is much faster than 8% Deku; he has precognition in that scene.

Low End seems just as consistent to me.

His Precognition has nothing to do with how fast his arms can move, Deku's hand was almost at point-blank of reaching Nighteye's fist, yet he was unable to catch the seal.

Deku getting blitzed by Gran Torino moving as fast as Todoroki's ice is not consistent at all.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I think we should continue using the high end. I mean, Mach 1.17 Torino? That's barely faster than Todoroki's ice, which even Base Deku could react to.

The ratings make sense as well, but I think 20% needs either a calc revision or to just change him to "At Least Hypersonic." Blitzing Chisaki isn't possible at Mach 5 with these calcs.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I'd push for hypersonic+ 20% Deku tbh

 

[Damage3245]

@Kingofwolves999; I already mentioned that we could be overrating Todoroki's ice speed.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

And I argued against that. Heavily. You never responded to my last post about it.

 

[Therefir]

Yaoyorozu's statement should carry more weight than Damage's interpretation of the scene.

 

[Damage3245]

@Therefir; you mean your interpretation of Yaoyorozu's statement?

@Kingofwolves; I'll respond to you on it tomorrow when I have time.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

What interpretation of her statement? She tells Todoroki to make an ice wall, the giant ice wall from the sports festival, in the instant their quirks come back, when Aizawa has closed his eyes from blinking. In the timeframe from when Aizawa has his eyes completely closed, to when he opened them again, Todoroki creates the giant ice wall. That is what Momo was planning for and what happened. What other interpretation from Yaoyorozu is there where Todoroki only made "some" of the ice, and finished it after Aizawa's eyes opened again?

 

[Damage3245]

All she says is he needs to fire it off the moment his ice powers retur. There's nothing about it needing to reach its full size before Aizawa's eyes open.

The calc for the ice speed shouldn't be used.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

No, she does not refer to his ice powers. She is referring specifically, directly to his giant ice wall. In the very instant that his quirk is back, in the very moment Aizawa has closed his eyes, and before those eyes can reopen, she wants Todoroki to make the Giant ice wall.

Not use his ice powers to begin to make the ice wall, not obscure their view somewhat, no.

She wants the giant ice wall. The one he made at the sports festival. Specifically that and only that.

And he does it.

You forgot the very next panel where she refers to only the ice wall btw.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

"You can fire it off in that instant, right, Todoroki? What you did in the sports festival... That Giant Ice Wall!!"

> very next panel is the ice wall completely formed

Where are you assuming it was still being made by the time Aizawa opened his eyes?

 

[Damage3245]

What do you think I'm referring to when I said he needs to fire it off? I know she's referring to the giant ice wall, that doesn't refute my point at all.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Todoroki formed the giant ice wall before Aizawa opened his eyes from the blink. He formed it so fast that Aizawa's capture tape, which he threw before he closed his eyes, was already beginning to completely freeze over.

No where is it referenced or implied it took Todoroki more time than the instant before Aizawa reopened his eyes to create this ice wall.

Where are you getting the assumption that it took more time than the instant Aizawa closed his eyes to when he reopened them to make the giant ice wall?

 

[Damage3245]

Because there is no reason to assume it was fully compete in the time it took Aizawa to blink. All she said was that he needed to fire it off in the instant he got his powers back which we saw him do.

Do you have any evidence aside from that statement that it took the exact amount of time that it took Aizawa to blink for it to be fully formed?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

She did say he could fire it off in the instant before Aizawa opens his eye

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It was fully formed and already beginning to freeze Aizawa himself the very next moment we see it.

 

[Damage3245]

She did say he could fire it off in the instant before Aizawa opens his eye

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Doesn't that established time frame and statement mean she believes he can fire his HPIW in the literal blink of an eye?