Major Demonbane Downgrading

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I know, I know. It's discussed like every month. And basically every month, it's postponed because ALRF and Theo are supposed to like redo the justifications for all of the characters. Well, there probably comes a time when the justification is overdo, and then changes need to start being made regardless of what was supposed to be done. I propose that this thread be for showing needed justifications for the tiers, and characters become downgraded if there isn't proper justification with scans.

Liber Legis (Gunshin Kyoushuu), and Demonbane (Gunshin Kyoushuu) are 1-B with the justification of "transcending the multiversal totality", which is very vague.

Kurou Daijuuji literally has no justification for his tier. He's a 1-A with no justification. Demonbane Two Sword is another 1-A with literally no justification.

Al Azif is 1-A from powerscaling. The justification doesn't even say who she scales to.

Liber Legis (Zanma Taisei) scales to Nyarlathotep. So does Demonbane (Zanma Taisei). So does the Shining Trapezohedro. So does literally Elder God Demonbane. Yes. A High 1-A is considered High 1-A for literally failing to destroy a 1-A.

Nyarlathotep is 1-A for being able to create Klein Bottles which consist of infinite multiverses with infinite dimensions and infinite possibilities. This justification should only be really high-end High 1-B, because being above infinite higher dimensions, even an infinite number of times, will not make you 1-A. You must transcend the concept of dimensions.

So we have every other 1-A with an actual justification scaling to Nyarlathotep, and her justification only warrants her as a High 1-B.

So as a recap. A whole bunch of 1-As scale to someone who should be High 1-B. A High 1-A also scales to said High 1-B. Yog-Sothoth (Demonbane) also scales to Elder God Demonbane, who scales to someone who should be High 1-B.

I'm proposing that all who scale to Nyarlathotep be downgraded to High 1-B, and even Elder God Demonbane and Yog-Sothoth be downgraded to High 1-B, and then Azathoth (Demonbane) should be downgraded to being 1-A.

 

[Aeyu]

Antvasima has stated many times that these profiles may be more trouble than they're potentially worth. If they're in that bad of shape, and no one has worked on them even a bit (no blogs, nothing), then I vote for deleting them entirely.

 

[Ryukama]

I can't speak for the other stuff, however one of the primary reasons the verse is 1-A is this statement

"After this Infinite and Endless cycle of Infinities within Infinities, one finally transcends it reaching the boiling soul of Chaos outside."

You'll have to ask Matt or one of the other knowledgable members to find the source for that though.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Does that statement apply to Nyarlathotep? Considering it says "one", it seems to imply a single person.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm not sure. Either way it speaks for mostly the cosmology itself.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I see that, but that doesn't necessarily mean is scales to anyone. At best, that would just make Elder God Demonbane and Yog-Sothoth 1-A, but the only hole there is that Nyarlathotep survives his attack and her statements only imply that she's High 1-B. And if everyone, including infinitely weaker Demonbanes scale to Nyarlathotep, wouldn't Elder God Demonbane being 1-A at all just be outlier-ish?

 

[Ryukama]

Why wouldn't it just be an outlier for Nyar? I think Matt said that statement was for the Klein Bottles. Either way you have to ask him, not me.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I'll wait awhile and ask him if this gets no attention. If I weren't just lazy because of sleepiness, I would just ask him. XD

Uhm, but yeah, I suppose. But even so, Demonbane would be a 1-A, and Yog-Sothoth.

 

[Sera_EX]

The verse is under heavy revisions. Please ignore the profiles.

 

[The_Everlasting]

EGD fails to destroy Nyar because of their link to Azathoth. Nothing more.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

That same "profiles are currently under revisions" excuse has been used for every content revision thread, though. If there are justifications for everything, then why aren't they just added to the profiles?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I was told that some knowledgeable members (I think ALRF and another person that I cannot remember the username of) were going to revise and greatly improve upon the profiles, but nothing has happened since then.

 

[Aeyu]

@Ant

I think that the profiles should be removed until they are remade with higher quality, or else these misunderstandings will continue to be made.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, to start with I would prefer if somebody could ask ALRF to comment here.

 

[Zensum]

I'm in agreement with aeyu, profiles looking like a hassle

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree with Aeyu, that seems to be a good solution.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

If the justifications for Demonbane aren't proper, or without any sufficient evidence for their ratings, they would be better off being deleted from the wiki unless more info about the verse/their ratings could be found.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody ask ALRF and Matthew to comment here?

 

[Sera_EX]

If the justifications for Demonbane aren't proper, or without any sufficient evidence for their ratings, they would be better off being deleted from the wiki unless more info about the verse/their ratings could be found.

I beg to differ.

 

[VenomElite]

I mean, I did say I was going to finish the explanation blog and fix the entire verse but others kept meddling in those affairs (no offense to those who just want to help). It makes it harder for me to actually get things done. Then private life stuff happened, had to leave for a few months, and now here we are. If you want justifications on the profile all you had to do was ask. No need to delete the pages though.

 

[Kaltias]

Can somebody ask ALRF and Matthew to comment here?

I did it

 

[Sera_EX]

How about I write a better explanation page?

 

[VenomElite]

How about I write a better explanation page?

That would make my day, please do.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Alright, Venom. Thanks. The justifications don't have to be like absolute and profound just yet, I just want justifications that accurately reflect their tier and explain certain things I addressed, like Nyarlathotep only surviving because of her connection to Azathoth. Later, when you finish the blog and whatnot, the justifications can be revised to show how powerful they are as 1-A/High 1-A characters. It's just that the idea of 1-As existing with literally not justification kind of doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Aeyu]

The profiles themselves need to be corrected as well though. Currently, they are horribly structured and provide shallow, egregious reasonings for their tiering. Misunderstandings will continue to happen unless these pages are addressed immediately.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Aeyu

Yes, of course. Although drastic changes should never be rushed regardless of such misunderstandings. I mean, I made a content revision for explaining the tier of Akemi Nakajima that no one but Reppuzan replied to, and his page needs justifications for his tier. However I'm not rushing, it's not that urgent honestly.

We try to be as patient with people as we possibly can, because they have other wiki stuff to worry about (especially administrators) and their private lives on top of that.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's first wait for ALRF, and then you can come to an agreement about who should do what regarding the Demonbane pages.

I can always use my script to temporarily unlock the pages for editing after that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Venom and ALRF will probably be revising the verse soon. They are 1-A via Nyarlathotep's feats and stuff about the Outer Gods in general.

Mars Demonbane's feat is probably High 1-B since he is literally described as existing in a "Hyper-Hyperspace-time continuum" (Sounds super cringy, I know) above all the Higher Dimensions.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It seems unnecessary to delete the pages then.

 

[ALRF]

The problem with pages?

Have fun trying to improve the verse without getting into japanese stuff like this shit

Also my school life takes priority and you mostly see me inactive during the week and then only active for an hour or so. So there is that

Also Demonbane is a big verse, it's not something short so expecting me and two other people to finish it fast is kinda stupid

 

[Ryukama]

"Hyper-Hyperspace-time continuum"

Not as cringy as "beyond beyond infinite" ovo

Do you still have the source for "After this Infinite and Endless cycle of Infinities within Infinities, one finally transcends it reaching the boiling soul of Chaos outside."? That's like one of the most blatantly 1-A things ever.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Probably a mistranslation of the end here

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is the most blatant 1-A statement in Demonbane tho

 

[Ryukama]

You quoted that line in this thread. Does the line exist or was it a mistranslation? Either way I'm pretty sure Demonbane has some other 1-A stuff.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It doesn't exist it was just an interpretation.

 

[Ryukama]

Alright.

 

[Antvasima]

@ALRF

Okay. No problem. When you find the time, you can coordinate with Sera and the other member who was going to help you out.

 

[ALRF]

It's all fine.

I'm now waiting to get the sequel game which in japanese while getting the LNs too

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[Antvasima]

Should we close this thread then?