Magi massive Revision

[PrinceofPein]

I will reply tomorrow

 

[RatherClueless]

Arba

wait what? Arba was no god.

This is a huge assumption and I see no reason for it.

I gave reasons. At least twice. At least tell me why they dont apply instead of just saying they dont exist

Well he actually was affected as he was casted aside by Ugo using the SP

Well, that has a lot of issues. I've given them before, but I can give them again. If Ugo sees Il-Ilah as fiction, it'd be easy to extract the people in it. The specific example Alibaba used in regards to dimension conecting to which Ugo said it can't be done was magic that connects Il-Ilahs dimension and theirs. Regardless of whether Il-Ilah exists above, below, left or right, accessing it would be impossible without returning the world to the Rukh. We know that the darkspot is formed by gods that exist above them. So yeah, Ugo casting down the legit Il-Ilah makes no sense unles you can explain at least half of these and even then it's debatable.

Again the “it has space for one” is another assumption not needed tbh.

And the ascension you claim requires using the SP to sacrifice the lower world to ascend higher.

1. It's an assumption based on whats given
2. No? You can exceed a god within the SP without reaching the next layer.

but the SP can’t handle it.

It can't handle it because "like any tool it breaks when used too much too extensively", not because of hierarchical size or anything.

Do you understand this?

Yes? I am perfectly aware of that. My point was never that they kept transcending each other, but that that magic can be used for transcending gods. Basically, instead of using it to swap back and forth it can be used to add more gods. We know that if the sacred palace wasn't so "brittle" that that is technically something that can be done for eternity, meaning Il-Ilah's layer has enough space for that. Not to mention that adding any new god on top using this magic would never actually get you past this layer.

And besides it was literally referred to as “swapping” and “rearranging”

David became the guardian of the sacred palace and ugo became a god above gods. He didn't cast him down till after that. David later was stated to be a "god above Sinbad", rather than one that pushed him down. Even if you add 1, 2 or 3 gods to the Sacred Palace (above Ugo before becoming a god above gods), it doesn't actually change its size, which would be more evidence to that. Yes, Sinbad and David only swapped positions, but that is ignoring everything else leading up to that.

Not saying my interpretations are some WoG, but just smacking them down, even though they have evidence backing them up, as "unfounded" or "unneeded" without bothering to even explain why is pretty unfounded to be honest.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Yes, Sinbad and David only swapped positions, but that is ignoring everything else leading up to that

Exactly, ignoring everything. Well he said he has explanation.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well, that has a lot of issues. I've given them before, but I can give them again. If Ugo sees Il-Ilah as fiction, it'd be easy to extract the people in it. The specific example Alibaba used in regards to dimension conecting to which Ugo said it can't be done was magic that connects Il-Ilahs dimension and theirs. Regardless of whether Il-Ilah exists above, below, left or right, accessing it would be impossible without returning the world to the Rukh. We know that the darkspot is formed by gods that exist above them. So yeah, Ugo casting down the legit Il-Ilah makes no sense unles you can explain at least half of these and even then it's debatable.

Agree

 

[PrinceofPein]

i will make my reply tomorrow, please be patient

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. Please take your time.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Okay here is my reply, but first let me clear something up
1. I really do think and believe each God layers may have their own sub-layers even though it was not stated, but that is a fair assumption due to some things in verse

• I should note tho another fair assumption will be, the Illah layer allowed for such strictly because of the Sacred Palace, and the said hierarchy within Illah's layer is not really in the actual world but in the sacred palace

2. Each layers may be able to accomodate more than one god but again Illah’s layer that I used to make this assumption is an exception not the rule

• but what I won't agree to is well the claim there are countless layers in a single layer, that is an actual misinterpretation of what is said and strictly there is no proof for it.

3. Illah's layer is an exception and not the rule. (Especially David's statement about "One world, One God")
4. To support number 3, All the other gods that became a god was through the Sacred Palace.

I had to go and look and look for the raws for this.In chapter 324, When the Ugo first introduced illah multiple structure, he first started by saying he was a god above gods, David asked him what he meant. Ugo told him that God(illah) had a multi structure and it was possible to change their order. Ugo exclusively refered to it as illah multiple structure. Now if you are reading the Viz translation for the first, you might even this say structure is contained in illah. I originally interpreted it as a Hierachy containing god like illah but this looking at it again, this is somewhat contradicted by the same manga panel and the entire series. The second time Ugo describe it. He just say there are many worlds and that he changed the order of gods. Based on him mentioning changing the order of gods, well can tell he is referring to the structure he described above. In chapter 329, Sinbad gave the description.

Now you posted the same scans over an over again with diff TL, the major take here is that
Ugo said he is God above Gods to David's disbelieve of Ugo retaking the SP from him
1. this statement is absolutely correct, He is a God above Illah and David
Nothing in this post states he meant the entire Magi Hierarchy as he himself said he is omnipotent only in solomon's world and that it meant there are countless layers within Illah's layer without further context, is something that well you will need more context for, something that was not given in the verse

The interpretation of Sinbad description is the main problem. Now normally I will assume that he was referring to the entire verse but that might wrong and he might be referring to the World Ugo governs. One god governed this world , that role was played by Ugo. Alibaba, do you want to know how this world is structured, there are many worlds in this world and Ugo has obtained the formidable power to shit their order.

I feel like you are being purposely disingenous and ignoring the context in-verse.
but before I address the way you took a single statement without accounting for the rest of Sinbad's goals and words, let us analyse this statement
There are countless worlds each with its own GOD, yes a singular god remember what I said about Illah's layer being the exception and not the rule?
Anyway you may want to bring up Sinbad saying "Do you know how this World works?" prior to the statement above and that would mean he was referring that to the world having countless gods. That will be wrong and its just english, let me give an example here.

Do you know how this Universe works? One God rules it............ There are countless Universes each with its own God

Does this say there are countless universes within that universe?
Nope, it was a general term. while this should be enough to say this statement was never talking about there being countless layers in a single world. It means there are countless worlds different from this one and each world has a single God
Secondly, why I said you are ignoring context on purpose?
So he said Ugo has acquired the power to re-arrange this hierarchy, then he was said, why didn't Ugo rearrange the hierarchy?
He gave a cocky reply about how Ugo has no ambition e.t.c. and how he has one, and also said he will keep surpassing higher gods. (These literally mean his statement about countless worlds and a god in each world means he was referring to higher worlds)
then he gave the condition needed to re-arrange the hierarchy, which is to return the whole world to Rukh.

So when he was talking about the countless worlds, he was in no way referring to Illah's layer having countless worlds, thats ignoring the context he said it. So please stop bringing up that statement

If Ugo sees Il-Ilah as fiction, it'd be easy to extract the people in it.

This was already answered in verse, you must have missed it. whoever controls the SP in illah's world will be the one on top of any other god in the verse.
And Ugo said what they are proposing is difficult cause it will require a lot of magic, and even said it took a whole lot to create the dimensions at first. you dont need to return the world to rukh to break the horizontal dimensions, it just requires a whole of magic, something that will require returning the entire solomon's world to rukh(a single dimension). He was saying to how to be able to merge Illah's dimension with the current world they need to undo solomon's world since that was the amount of magic that was required to create the Illah's dimension, so undoing it would require the same amount of power which is all of Illah's magoi. the amount of magic required relies totally on the size of the hole that wants to be opened

but none of this is really what I am arguing

Ugo casting down the legit Il-Ilah makes no sense unles you can explain at least half of these and even then it's debatable.

What do you need me to explain exactly? It was stated Ugo got control of the SP then he casted Illah down, what else need to be said?, Illah's power was stolen and then the world was remade simple
Tbh if you have a problem with it not making sense, I see why i have to be the one to answer that, it does not affect any of my claims.
But if you want an elaborate explanation, I can try and elaborate, so let me know although it has nothing to do with my claims.

but that that magic can be used for transcending gods.

absolutely by sacrificing the lower worlds rukh except when it is done within the confines of the SP i.e. when it is just a struggle for who becomes the guardian

stuffs

stuffs

Now I think the other contention here is, David and Sinbad struggle.
So @Lormac_CC said it was not a struggle of power and Sinbad never got the SP but was only trying to gain control from David.
That will be wrong, It was literally said that the hierarchy has changed again the first time Sinbad tore David apart. I dont see where you are seeing he never got it back, it was a tug of war, they kept changing the guardian of the SP over and over and over again and that's what caused the destruction of the SP
and also Ugo statement here also.
Sinbad needs to gain total control of the SP, before the spell can be stopped and thats the context of the statement you are using to claim "Sinbad never became the guardian of the SP during the struggle".
That said, please stop taking a single statement or panel and ignoring the context in which it was made.

David became the guardian of the sacred palace and ugo became a god above gods. He didn't cast him down till after that. David later was stated to be a "god above Sinbad", rather than one that pushed him down.

David became the guardian of the palace, and then Ugo thwarted him by saying he knows all his plans and took control of the SP back from him.
or can you try sending the scans of the progression of events, and also the entire context of David a god above Sinbad and well the scans and preferably chapter number, as I dont really understand your point here well enough

 

[Antvasima]

Pain_to12 still makes good sense to me. Thank you very much for helping out.

 

[Lormac_CC]

I really do think and believe each God layers may have their own sub-layers even though it was not stated, but that is a fair assumption due to some things in verse

• I should note tho another fair assumption will be, the Illah layer allowed for such strictly because of the Sacred Palace, and the said hierarchy within Illah's layer is not really in the actual world

I think we should stop using layers. It is brings a lot of misinterpretation, the raws never used layers. It used order, Hierarchy, structure. Check the definition of those world and you won't see anything like layers. More like a ranking system

Each layers may be able to accomodate more than one god but again Illah’s layer that I used to make this assumption is an exception not the rule

• but what I won't agree to is well the claim there are countless layers in a single layer, that is an actual misinterpretation of what is said and strictly there is no proof for it.

Again, this is still the cause of Viz using layers.

Illah's layer is an exception and not the rule. (Especially David's statement about "One world, One God")

Agree

All the other gods that became a god was through the Sacred Palace

So the Sacred palace governs only Solomon's world and the Same time it circulates the energy of illah's world. This is likely due to its position. David became illah, Sinbad was made a god, Infact only Ugo became a god through the SP

He is a God above Illah and David

That would mean he casted illah David-illah down while moving up. Again, there are countless worlds and gods

Nothing in this post states he meant the entire Magi Hierarchy as he himself said he is omnipotent only in solomon's world

He never refered to the main Magi Hierarchy. He was referring to the gods in illah world. Secondly when he said he was Omnipotent, his ranking was normal.

I feel like you are being purposely disingenous and ignoring the context in-verse.

I actually agree to this but it doesn't really change much

Does this say there are countless universes within that universe?

This is why I brought the raws. There are countless worlds in this world each with it's own god. After looking at things again. Ugo only govern the Aladdin world, but it wouldn't change the fact that there are countless worlds/gods in illah layer. Infact this is basic knowledge. Aladdin told us that they where countless worlds earlier in the series. Yes this worlds weren't explored but it doesn't change the fact that they exists. I don't know why we are even debating on this

Anyway you may want to bring up Sinbad saying "Do you know how this World works?" prior to the statement above and that would mean he was referring that to the world having countless gods.

I brought it

Nope, it was a general term. while this should be enough to say this statement was never talking about there being countless layers in a single world.

Personally, I don't believe that there are layers, there are countless worlds with gods in them. The gods have a ranking between themselves. Hence why it is called the Hierarchy of gods not the Hierarchy of worlds

So he said Ugo has acquired the power to re-arrange this hierarchy, then he was said

Yes

said, why didn't Ugo rearrange the hierarchy?

No, why did he try to get rid of illah of with the action of humans, very different from he didn't rearrange the Hierarchy. You are also contradict this your interpretation by agreeing that illah was casted down the Hierarchy.

He gave a cocky reply about how Ugo has no ambition e.t.c. and how he has one, and also said he will keep surpassing higher gods

Yes

These literally mean his statement about countless worlds and a god in each world means he was referring to higher worlds

Could also mean that he is different from Ugo who has no ambition to surpass any god and that if there is a god, he would surpass.

So when he was talking about the countless worlds, he was in no way referring to Illah's layer having countless worlds, thats ignoring the context he said it

No, this is something that the series first pointed out.

if you have a problem with it not making sense, I see why i have to be the one to answer that, it does not affect any of my claims

It does affect you claim as both David illah and the OG illah are treated completely differently. Arba reacts to them differently to. Honestly this is series fault. Anyways I very do agree with the fact that OG illah was casted down. David is illah with a different personality. David illah and illah should have the same ranking and changing David illah ranking should affect OG illah

whoever controls the SP in illah's world will be the one on top of any other god in the verse.

Nah, the Sacred palace is powerful, infact you could agure that it scales to illah as it was created using his magoi. Gods who control the SP don't have their ranking changed. Ugo control the Sacred for an unknown amount of time but it didn't change the fact that he was below illah till he casted him down. If anything the SP scales below illah, with good agurment, it scales to him.

And Ugo said what they are proposing is difficult cause it will require a lot of magic, and even said it took a whole lot to create the dimensions at first

They never created any dimension, they interfered with a single dimension. Do you mean magoi ?

you dont need to return the world to rukh to break the horizontal dimensions, it just requires a whole of magic, something that will require returning the entire solomon's world to rukh(a single dimension)

You mean Magoi right

He was saying to how to be able to merge Illah's dimension with the current world they need to undo solomon's world since that was the amount of magic that was required to create the Illah's dimension, so undoing it would require the same amount of power which is all of Illah's magoi

First, no dimension was created. It takes a lot of magoi to connect dimension

the amount of magic required relies totally on the size of the hole that wants to be opened

Magoi,

That will be wrong, It was literally said that the hierarchy has changed again the first time Sinbad tore David apart. I dont see where you are seeing he never got it back, it was a tug of war, they kept changing the guardian of the SP over and over and over again and that's what caused the destruction of the SP
and also Ugo statement here also.
Sinbad needs to gain total control of the SP

Every single scan here, nothing shows that the Guardian of the SP is changing, all it shows is that the Hierarchy of gods is changing. Anyways, I don't want stay on it as I did find a scan that supports the idea that they fought for control.

 

[Lormac_CC]

David became the guardian of the palace, and then Ugo thwarted him by saying he knows all his plans and took control of the SP back from him.

Neutral on this

can you try sending the scans of the progression of events

You don't even have those scans so what is the need of asking

 

[PrinceofPein]

I think we should stop using layers. It is brings a lot of misinterpretation, the raws never used layers. It used order, Hierarchy, structure. Check the definition of those world and you won't see anything like layers. More like a ranking system

Again, this is still the cause of Viz using layers.

Agree

So the Sacred palace governs only Solomon's world and the Same time it circulates the energy of illah's world. This is likely due to its position. David became illah, Sinbad was made a god, Infact only Ugo became a god through the SP

That would mean he casted illah David-illah down while moving up. Again, there are countless worlds and gods

He never refered to the main Magi Hierarchy. He was referring to the gods in illah world. Secondly when he said he was Omnipotent, his ranking was normal.

I actually agree to this but it doesn't really change much

This is why I brought the raws. There are countless worlds in this world each with it's own god. After looking at things again. Ugo only govern the Aladdin world, but it wouldn't change the fact that there are countless worlds/gods in illah layer. Infact this is basic knowledge. Aladdin told us that they where countless worlds earlier in the series. Yes this worlds weren't explored but it doesn't change the fact that they exists. I don't know why we are even debating on this

I brought it

Personally, I don't believe that there are layers, there are countless worlds with gods in them. The gods have a ranking between themselves. Hence why it is called the Hierarchy of gods not the Hierarchy of worlds

Yes

No, why did he try to get rid of illah of with the action of humans, very different from he didn't rearrange the Hierarchy. You are also contradict this your interpretation by agreeing that illah was casted down the Hierarchy.

Yes

Could also mean that he is different from Ugo who has no ambition to surpass any god and that if there is a god, he would surpass.

No, this is something that the series first pointed out.

It does affect you claim as both David illah and the OG illah are treated completely differently. Arba reacts to them differently to. Honestly this is series fault. Anyways I very do agree with the fact that OG illah was casted down. David is illah with a different personality. David illah and illah should have the same ranking and changing David illah ranking should affect OG illah

Nah, the Sacred palace is powerful, infact you could agure that it scales to illah as it was created using his magoi. Gods who control the SP don't have their ranking changed. Ugo control the Sacred for an unknown amount of time but it didn't change the fact that he was below illah till he casted him down. If anything the SP scales below illah, with good agurment, it scales to him.

They never created any dimension, they interfered with a single dimension. Do you mean magoi ?

You mean Magoi right

First, no dimension was created. It takes a lot of magoi to connect dimension

Magoi,

Every single scan here, nothing shows that the Guardian of the SP is changing, all it shows is that the Hierarchy of gods is changing. Anyways, I don't want stay on it as I did find a scan that supports the idea that they fought for control.

All your take here still Puts them at low 1-c to 1-C
And does not say anything about my claims
1. I never disputed multiple worlds been in Illah’s layer
2. The upper layers to Illah are the only one with R>F not the ones within the worlds and also between gods and worlds

3. try and read to context when I say magic I mean magoi


Is there anything else you want to address?

 

[Lormac_CC]

The upper layers to Illah are the only one with R>F not the ones within the worlds and also between gods and worlds

You should bring scans of you want to say that. Infact there isn't a single scan for that. The difference between a Creator and it's creation is the difference between gods. So if you want to say the order of gods in illah layer don't posses such difference and only gods above illah can have such, you need scans

. I never disputed multiple worlds been in Illah’s layer

So do agree that there a countless worlds and gods in illah layer?

All your take here still Puts them at low 1-c to 1-C

Nope, it changes things.

 

[Lormac_CC]

And does not say anything about my

Which part of your claim isn't addressed

 

[PrinceofPein]

Stuffs

Please you can call in staffs now to evaluate the threads
It will just keep going in circles and I’m also tired of arguing

Plan to make a thread after that this too, so it can be concluded faster no matter the outcome

 

[Lormac_CC]

Please you can call in staffs now to evaluate the threads
It will just keep going in circles and I’m also tired of arguing

Plan to make a thread after that this too, so it can be concluded faster no matter the outcome

I would prefer you respond to my post above, especially the part where you claimed that upper layers are the only ones with reality fiction

 

[PrinceofPein]

I would prefer you respond to my post above, especially the part where you claimed that upper layers are the only ones with reality fiction

I already answered it in my first big post
Check that part
R>F exists between a god and the world they govern
And also gods on the actual hierarchy

 

[Lormac_CC]

And also gods on the actual hierarchy

There isn't a scan for this. The difference between a Creator and it's creation is what exists between gods.

 

[PrinceofPein]

There isn't a scan for this. The difference between a Creator and it's creation is what exists between gods.

Sigh
You really should read my posts again
Like all of them, cause I really don’t know where you are coming from again.
Countless worlds = horizontal barriers
Countless layers/hierarchy/orders = vertical barriers

Now sometimes the vertical ones are called worlds but that’s where the context of where it was said comes in

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Pain_to12 makes sense above.

I would appreciate if you write up a rational scaling structure for the characters if you are able.

 

[Xyra]

Saya hanya menyimak saja

 

[Antvasima]

No problem, but please use Egnlish in this forum. Thank you.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I think that Pain_to12 makes sense above.

I would appreciate if you write up a rational scaling structure for the characters if you are able.

I will do that tomorrow in the night

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out. It is very appreciated.

 

[Lormac_CC]

I believe the main problem here is the Hierarchy of gods(what Ugo Plays with). While Pain says it is affects only vertical, I say the Hierarchy of gods is within illah layer. Anyway what ever is applied is fine by me at this point but there are few things I do want to point out.
Pain_to12 You said that horizontal Dimensions have no transdence between themselves. Well the Dimensions are likely equal but the gods within have. Ugo illah relationship is the perfect example of this. Till illah was casted down the Hierarchy, he was superior to Ugo and Solomon in every aspect with Ugo being nothing more than a character in his story. illah was in a horizontal dimension. Another thing I want to point out is that gods make themselves, just as there are king vessels, there are also also god vessels. Just as illah made Solomon, Ugo God by controlling the Narrative, Ugo could do same to his creation and he would be superior the way illah was to him.

 

[RatherClueless]

This was already answered in verse

Idk if it's just me, but the first link isn't working. I did see that second one. This isn't what I am referring to however. I am more so referring to Alibaba specifically saying that getting rid of the sacred palace has no effect on Il-Illah.

He was saying to how to be able to merge Illah's dimension with the current world they need to undo solomon's world since that was the amount of magic that was required to create the Illah's dimension, so undoing it would require the same amount of power which is all of Illah's magoi.

I am confused. Are or aren't you agreeing that Il-Illah exists separate from the Sacred Palace? I seriously can't follow what exactly you are arguing here and what exact parts of the manga you are even basing this on what so ever.

except when it is done within the confines of the SP i.e. when it is just a struggle for who becomes the guardian

so you agree? great.

context of David a god above Sinbad and well the scans and preferably chapter number, as I dont really understand your point here well enough

Talking about ch 351 Pg 10 here, when Ugo says "But what if there is a god ranked even higher than Sinbad." Anyways, when Ugo transcended David he very specifically became a god transcending David who became the legitimate guardian. He didn't cast him down at that point. He went on top. Same with David later on.

But if you want an elaborate explanation

I 100% do. I specifically asked for one after all.

David is illah with a different personality. David illah and illah should have the same ranking and changing David illah ranking should affect OG illah

Are you saying that because of a connection between David and Il-Illah, Il-Illah, who was in a completely different world above the rest of the world, was casted down too? That . . . I'd like to see what exactly that's based on.

 

[Jibz]

Idk if it's just me, but the first link isn't working.

doesnt work for me either

 

[Antvasima]

Idk if it's just me, but the first link isn't working.

doesnt work for me either

@Pain_to12

 

[Lormac_CC]

Are you saying that because of a connection between David and Il-Illah, Il-Illah, who was in a completely different world above the rest of the world, was casted down too? That . . . I'd like to see what exactly that's based on

Yes, that what I am saying and I have reasons to believe that. First, there is no connection between David and illah because David is illah. illah developed a personality rather a different personality took hold of him. Now Araba reacts to both different asking Alibaba what the OG illah say about her while he was in the dimension, and the same time she refers to David as her creator even going on to say his methods are the same. This should show that they are same individuals with different personality. Now I have established that David is indeed illah with a different personality, next is the fact that everyone agrees that illah had been taken down by Ugo Magic.
Another thing, the dimension illah was sealed isn't above, it is among countless Dimensions in illah world/layer, but that doesn't mean illah isn't above Ugo/Solomon.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Idk if it's just me, but the first link isn't working. I did see that second one. This isn't what I am referring to however. I am more so referring to Alibaba specifically saying that getting rid of the sacred palace has no effect on Il-Illah.


I am confused. Are or aren't you agreeing that Il-Illah exists separate from the Sacred Palace? I seriously can't follow what exactly you are arguing here and what exact parts of the manga you are even basing this on what so ever.


so you agree? great.


Talking about ch 351 Pg 10 here, when Ugo says "But what if there is a god ranked even higher than Sinbad." Anyways, when Ugo transcended David he very specifically became a god transcending David who became the legitimate guardian. He didn't cast him down at that point. He went on top. Same with David later on.


I 100% do. I specifically asked for one after all.





Are you saying that because of a connection between David and Il-Illah, Il-Illah, who was in a completely different world above the rest of the world, was casted down too? That . . . I'd like to see what exactly that's based on.

I will try addressing you later I’m sorry for the delay

@Pain_to12

Doesn’t work for me either, I will fix it soon, must have been a mix up from my side.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem, and thank you for helping out.

 

[Lormac_CC]

You know what, I change my mind on the Hierarchy gods, nothing really debunks that it is within illah layer, the agurment that Horizontal dimensions aren't transcendent to each other is correct, but that doesn't mean gods can't the transcend each other. Anyway, I believe it should be rated as possibly

Next, I want to point something out, it has been discussed before but Ratherclueless brought it up. The idea that fate does indeed have an end.

Even though David can see his destiny of fighting all these gods, he does not know who chose him what what lies beyond destiny, implying that whoever or whatever gave him this destiny ranks above the infinite hierarchy.

I had to check the raws especially the part talks about seeing beyond destiny. This point has already been covered by Ratherclueless.

The next point is the one that has been dropped on the wiki before. The scan is self explanatory, we will fight till the very end of fate that spreads out beyond the infinite battle/gods. This scan has been discussed before but it wasn't rejected as I don't remember making CRT on it, it was on General discussion. Please don't try debunking saying David doesn't mean it or that David doesn't know who chose him so he can't be credible.

The third point is similar to what Ratherclueless pointed but just that it is what holds the agurment together. Singularities sees Faith from the perspective of who is controlling it. This simply mean who ever had chosen David is one beyond the Hierarchy as the destiny affects the entire Hierarchy

 

[Antvasima]

So what tiering solutions do you currently suggest and why, Lormac?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I had to check the raws especially the part talks about seeing beyond destiny. This point has already been covered by Ratherclueless.

The next point is the one that has been dropped on the wiki before. The scan is self explanatory, we will fight till the very end of fate that spreads out beyond the infinite battle/gods. This scan has been discussed before but it wasn't rejected as I don't remember making CRT on it, it was on General discussion. Please don't try debunking saying David doesn't mean it or that David doesn't know who chose him so he can't be credible.

The third point is similar to what Ratherclueless pointed but just that it is what holds the agurment together. Singularities sees Faith from the perspective of who is controlling it. This simply mean who ever had chosen David is one beyond the Hierarchy as the destiny affects the entire

I will address this when you make a CRT on it, as it’s clearly pointless to talk about it here and this is really funny you know and like I said start reading to context

So what tiering solutions do you currently suggest and why, Lormac?

Tier 0 from his message above

Possibly the strongest one ever

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway my proposed scaling chain goes like this for the EOS keys

Sinbad ~ David > Ugo > Illah

For the keys before Sinbad became a god

Ugo > Illah >~< David.

Then I don’t know how we will treat them after the SP destruction but I don’t think they need a key for a single chapter of showing.

Lastly for their tiers, “at least low 1-C, likely 1-C, possibly far higher”

I will write out the justification but not quite sure how to word it, since we need to explain how we can’t be sure how they are placed or how the SP and the gods within Illah layers work. Especially since the showing within the layer did not show transcendence.

But I’d think of something

 

[Jibz]

Tier 0 from his message above

Possibly the strongest one ever

Tier 0 Magi?

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway my proposed scaling chain goes like this for the EOS keys

Sinbad ~ David > Ugo > Illah

For the keys before Sinbad became a god

Ugo > Illah >~< David.

Then I don’t know how we will treat them after the SP destruction but I don’t think they need a key for a single chapter of showing.

Lastly for their tiers, “at least low 1-C, likely 1-C, possibly far higher”

I will write out the justification but not quite sure how to word it, since we need to explain how we can’t be sure how they are placed or how the SP and the gods within Illah layers work. Especially since the showing within the layer did not show transcendence.

But I’d think of something

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Antvasima]

Tier 0 Magi?

The upgrade hunger has been turning increasingly outlandish lately at least.

 

[Lormac_CC]

So what tiering solutions do you currently suggest and why, Lormac?

Low 1-C Ugo, Sinbad, 1-C David, illah. illah, David gets possibly 1-B as the Hierarchy Ugo messes with is within illah layer. Then the cosmology of the verse moves from High 1-B to Low 1-A considering that who ever chose David has to be beyond the infinite Hierarchy and is very well the end of faith

 

[Jibz]

So where on Earth did tier 0 come from guys?

 

[Antvasima]

Low 1-C Ugo, Sinbad, 1-C David, illah. illah, David gets possibly 1-B as the Hierarchy Ugo messes with is within illah layer. Then the cosmology of the verse moves from High 1-B to Low 1-A considering that who ever chose David has to be beyond the infinite Hierarchy

Okay. That doesn't seem nearly as outlandish as previously in this thread. What do you think, Pain_to12?

So where on Earth did tier 0 come from guys?

I think there was an argument for High 1-A going on previously in this thread.