Magi 1-B Upgrade

[Zencha9]

Ok now im neutral kinda agreeing with @OriginFox though
But if it was stated that sinbad would transcend the gods shouldnt he be like oryx?
"would eventually Become 1-B" instead of potentially? Because potentially implies that we're not sure if he would transcend the gods or not
But as seen in the scans above sinbad was stated that he will transcend the gods multiple times thus eventually

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Ok now im neutral kinda agreeing with @OriginFox though
But if it was stated that sinbad would transcend the gods shouldnt he be like oryx?
"would eventually Become 1-B" instead of potentially? Because potentially implies that we're not sure if he would transcend the gods or not
But as seen in the scans above sinbad was stated that he will transcend the gods multiple times thus eventually

Yeah, I agree that potentially should be changed with "eventually". It's a situation akin to how Infinite Zamasu is being treated atm.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Sinbad required turning the entire world into rukh to ascend just one layer of reality higher than his own, if he could have done this by just flipping the hierarchy then there would have been no point in trying to turn the world into rukh. So their hierarchy flipping shenanigans don't actually make them higher dimensional than they already are.

First I have repeatedly stated that a character can't use the swap hierarchy to ascend to layers. They swap ranks with higher gods but are pretty much in their layer.

When they swap rankings they are they become infinitely superior to a god of same ranking and would stomp him how a higher god would. It is like 2D to 3D in comparison.

Gods have a ranking system, think of it a ranking of 1 2 3 4 5 in an ascending order and a swap happens between 3 and 4, rank 3 becomes rank 4 while rank 4 becomes rank 3. The only thing that doesn't change rank 3 tier completely to rank 4 is the fact that he is pretty still in a ranking 3 layer while he posses all that a rank 4 has. It is this simple.

 

[OriginFox]

First I have repeatedly stated that a character can't use the swap hierarchy to ascend to layers. They swap ranks with higher gods but are pretty much in their layer.

When they swap rankings they are they become infinitely superior to a god of same ranking and would stomp him how a higher god would. It is like 2D to 3D in comparison.

Gods have a ranking system, think of it a ranking of 1 2 3 4 5 in an ascending order and a swap happens between 3 and 4, rank 3 becomes rank 4 while rank 4 becomes rank 3. The only thing that doesn't change rank 3 tier completely to rank 4 is the fact that he is pretty still in a ranking 3 layer while he posses all that a rank 4 has. It is this simple.

And I already explained why that makes no sense. How are they a higher dimensional beings that still exists on a lower dimensional reality. Furthermore, when was it shown that a higher dimensional god can exists within a lower reality without using an avatar?

If rank 3 becomes rank 4 then why would it make sense for rank 3 to still only exists in rank 3 layer. Also want to mention that if rank 3 became rank 4 then they can enter rank 4's layer but Sinbad and David, despite swapping places couldn't enter a higher reality without turning the world into rukh.

 

[Lormac_CC]

And I already explained why that makes no sense. How are they a higher dimensional beings that still exists on a lower dimensional reality. Furthermore, when was it shown that a higher dimensional god can exists within a lower reality without using an avatar?

If rank 3 becomes rank 4 then why would it make sense for rank 3 to still only exists in rank 3 layer. Also want to mention that if rank 3 became rank 4 then they can enter rank 4's layer but Sinbad and David, despite swapping places couldn't enter a higher reality without turning the world into rukh.

Delta has told you several times in this CRT that it doesn't affect them physically but in hax.

At this point you are disregarding everything the manga has said about the ability with the plot and just going your own way. The manga explicitly states how the ability works and Ugo talks about it. In his own words he calls it trading of ranks. It also make sense that the ability works the way it is since it doesn't contradicts the plot of Sinbad going to higher dimensions to defeat gods

 

[OriginFox]

Delta has told you several times in this CRT that it doesn't affect them physically but in hax.

At this point you are disregarding everything the manga has said about the ability with the plot and just going your own way. The manga explicitly states how the ability works and Ugo talks about it. In his own words he calls it trading of ranks. It also make sense that the ability works the way it is since it doesn't contradicts the plot of Sinbad going to higher dimensions to defeat gods

Why would it not affect them physically. By trading ranks they become more powerful in all aspects or else the whole point of flipping the hierarchy would be pointless and irrelevant to the story. We see it when Ugo flips the hierarchy and instantly becomes far more powerful than Ugo.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Why would it not affect them physically. By trading ranks they become more powerful in all aspects or else the whole point of flipping the hierarchy would be pointless and irrelevant to the story. We see it when Ugo flips the hierarchy and instantly becomes far more powerful than Ugo.

They become infinitely superior to their past self. To the 5D being existing in a 5D layer you are a 6D being. You would stomp him how he would stomp a 4D being

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Ok now im neutral kinda agreeing with @OriginFox though
But if it was stated that sinbad would transcend the gods shouldnt he be like oryx?
"would eventually Become 1-B" instead of potentially? Because potentially implies that we're not sure if he would transcend the gods or not
But as seen in the scans above sinbad was stated that he will transcend the gods multiple times thus eventually

Because he doesn't. His whole plan of transcendence hinges on whether his plan of returning the world to Rukh succeeds or not (It fails). The whole key is just for a hypothetical scenario.

 

[AshMcXuelan23]

isn't a sacred place can change the position of the god hierarchy as ugo said here. So it's legitimate if sinbad, ugo, and david can go to a higher level because they are guardians of sacred place

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Sacred Palace can swap the places between two Gods, yes. But it is treated as just swapping positions rather than layer itself in here. Plus, Sacred Palace itself has a limited number of times of Ascending it can handle. So, 1B from sacred palace will take a lot of assumption.

 

[Zencha9]

Because he doesn't. His whole plan of transcendence hinges on whether his plan of returning the world to Rukh succeeds or not (It fails). The whole key is just for a hypothetical scenario.

Alot of characters have been tiered with hypothetical scenario i don't see why not with sinbad as long as it's possible within the rules of said series

 

[Delta333]

But it is treated as just swapping positions rather than layer itself in here

by swapping hierarchy users can have the position(power) of higher layer gods while they can still exist in their own layer

 

[Lormac_CC]

Sacred Palace can swap the places between two Gods, yes. But it is treated as just swapping positions rather than layer itself in here. Plus, Sacred Palace itself has a limited number of times of Ascending it can handle. So, 1B from sacred palace will take a lot of assumption.

I, don't see why this should affect the agurment. 1-B SP isn't an assumption

 

[PhantomØ4]

Alot of characters have been tiered with hypothetical scenario i don't see why not with sinbad as long as it's possible within the rules of said series

Two wrongs don’t make one right.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

I, don't see why this should affect the agurment. 1-B SP isn't an assumption

It is. You do realize that canonically SP has limited usage when it comes to swapping the positions right? We see David and Sinbad ascending a few times before the palace overloads. You could argue that they ascended numerous times when Aladdin and others were dealing with the Angels but we don't know the number and this is where assumption comes to play. The whole Hierarchy busting plan comes from Sinbad and David, who didn't even know about it the Hierarchy a chapter ago. Which is refuted by Ugo numerous times. Ugo says it would take a God's entire Rukh to break a single layer over them. So, 1B SP is very much an assumption.

 

[Delta333]

we don't know exactly how many times they ascended so it should be varies,potentially up to 1-B

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Tbh, even after ascending past Ugo Sinbad still considered Solomon a higher layered God than himself while Ugo says that Solomon was only able to interfere with one level of dimensions. So, one could argue that swapping isn't really giving them actual Transcendence like the Gods of the Hierarchy possess. But meh

 

[Lormac_CC]

Tbh, even after ascending past Ugo Sinbad still considered Solomon a higher layered God than himself while Ugo says that Solomon was only able to interfere with one level of dimensions. So, one could argue that swapping isn't really giving them actual Transcendence like the Gods of the Hierarchy possess. But meh

Don't understand a thing you said here. Solomon was shown to be with the higher gods. Gods that Ugo trade rankings with, of course he is a higher god.
Anyways I will reply this thread later

 

[Zencha9]

Two wrongs don’t make one right.

I don't see what makes it necessarily wrong but whatever

 

[Delta333]

Tbh, even after ascending past Ugo Sinbad still considered Solomon a higher layered God than himself while Ugo says that Solomon was only able to interfere with one level of dimensions. So, one could argue that swapping isn't really giving them actual Transcendence like the Gods of the Hierarchy possess. But meh

What are you trying to argue?Solomon exists in higher layer than them so it's normal for them to call Solomon as higher god
Again,sacred palace doesn't give the user any ability to access to higher layer,why no one here understand it

 

[Lormac_CC]

What are you trying to argue?Solomon exists in higher layer than them so it's normal for them to call Solomon as higher god
Again,sacred palace doesn't give the user any ability to access to higher layer,why no one here understand it

Don't know, the explanation I gave them using the ranking illustration should be sufficient for any one to understand what I mean. Many people are just after the transcending of layer stuff due to it being the main plot of the series without understanding what I am saying.

 

[Antvasima]

@OriginFox

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well I have been waiting for him so that we can conclude.

He has been able to prove that they don't change their actual Dimensionality to which I agree even though I kind of mentioned that in the blog and it doesn't affect the main agurment

But he hasn't been able to debunk them actually switching places with higher gods and changing their ranks which makes infinitely superior to their mate of same ranking.

Personally the changing of ranks shouldn't only affect a character hax but it should affect AP as well and no this does not contradicts the plot of the main story. Let's wait for him to get here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Honestly reading through this, I am agreeing with OriginFox's takeaway here.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Honestly reading through this, I am agreeing with OriginFox's takeaway here.

Well the agurment isn't over.

 

[Delta333]

let me be honest,OriginFox argument makes totally no sense,he keeps avoid almost others arguments by saying"Sinbad can't ascend to higher layer with sacred palace"and it's completely irrelevant because me and Lormac have never said that they use this ability to ascend to higher layer at all,I mean,wtf

 

[Lormac_CC]

Let me summarize this

Gods have a ranking system, higher dimensional ranking system. Ugo has the ability to swap them. Think of it as a ranking of 1 2 3 4 5 in an ascending order and a swap happens between 3 and 4, rank 3 becomes rank 4 while rank 4 becomes rank 3. The only thing that doesn't change is Higher Dimensional Existence or rather their actual Dimensionality as they are pretty much still in their layers. But things like stat and hax changes. A rank 3 basically becomes a rank 4 in a ranked 3 layer or reality becoming infinitely superior to other rank 3 gods, more like a 2D 3D relationship.

It is this simple, the ability can't be used to ascend the layers. The ability doesn't go against the plot of the story. It only changes your stats and hax to that of a higher D god.

Originfox hasn't really debunked any of this except the fact that it doesn't change their actual Dimensionality

 

[OriginFox]

My bad, been busy with school work. So far I'm still against the upgrades, the most I would agree on would be possibly 1-B via haxs.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well, they should increase in both stat and hax when they swap ranks

 

[Lormac_CC]

My bad, been busy with school work. So far I'm still against the upgrades, the most I would agree on would be possibly 1-B via haxs.

Personally it should affect them both stat and hax. Changing the ranking system should affect everything in a character's tier Including AP. The only thing that isn't changed should be the character's actual Dimensionality, they are basically higher gods with suppressed dimensionality and no it doesn't change the plot and that I can explain.

 

[OriginFox]

How can they become a higher god by flipping the hierarchy but still remain in the same dimensionality? I'm pretty sure that breaks like the very basis of dimensional scaling.

Currently that's my biggest issue, they are higher D but aren't actually higher D???

 

[Lormac_CC]

How can they become a higher god by flipping the hierarchy but still remain in the same dimensionality? I'm pretty sure that breaks like the very basis of dimensional scaling.

Currently that's my biggest issue, they are higher D but aren't actually higher D???

That question was also one the reason why I agured for hax only, then I asked DontTalkDT if it was possible for a higher D entity to exists in a lower reality, he replied and I quote

"No. Although it could use magical powers to reduce its dimensionality while keeping its stats intact."

This statement pretty much explain everything that happens during the swap except one gains the stat and transdence of a higher D entity without actually being actual higher D themselves. They become more like higher D gods with reduced dimensionality

 

[Zencha9]

@OriginFox yes they exist TTGL has a 3D mech that has 11D ap

 

[OriginFox]

Okay so after looking back I think I can come to an agreement. They remain the same dimensionality but get higher D stats and haxs. So Sinbad, David, and Ugo (idk about Solomon) should be at least low 1-C | Varies up to 1-B via haxs.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Okay so after looking back I think I can come to an agreement. They remain the same dimensionality but get higher D stats and haxs. So Sinbad, David, and Ugo (idk about Solomon) should be at least low 1-C | Varies up to 1-B via haxs.

Yes. Agreed. It only affects Ugo, Sinbad and David

 

[Lormac_CC]

Sinbad third key would be changed to "eventually" 1-B rather than potentially due to this reason

Ok now im neutral kinda agreeing with @OriginFox though
But if it was stated that sinbad would transcend the gods shouldnt he be like oryx?
"would eventually Become 1-B" instead of potentially? Because potentially implies that we're not sure if he would transcend the gods or not
But as seen in the scans above sinbad was stated that he will transcend the gods multiple times thus eventually

 

[Elizhaa]

Varies up to 1-B via haxs.
Coupled with the hax and since they scaled physically, then it is solid 1-B; just removed the hax part for the tier and just mentioned that Ugo, Sinbad, and David can ascend to a higher layer with the Sacred Palace in the Attack Potency.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Then it should be something like this

at least low 1-C | Varies up to 1-B

 

[SupremeNiva]

Well this is great, we finally come to an agreement

 

[Lormac_CC]

I am trying to come up with the justification. Could need help