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Madoka Kaname (PMMM) VS Asriel Dreemurr (Undertale)

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KingPin0422

KingPin0422

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Round 1: Madoka is in her Ultimate/Goddess form. Asriel has the 6 Human SOULs and all the Monster SOULs, and is using a small fraction of his power.

Round 2: Same as above, but Asriel is at full power.

Battle takes place in Madoka's realm.

Who wins?
 
>Using a small fraction of his power

Why? Asriel can't hit Madoka either way due to conceptual, and Madoka could probably take care of him easily.
 
Madoka takes this.

Well, if she doesn´t bring Asriel to her realm that is.


And if she still has the "Meguca saving" omnipotence and omnipresence powers.


She is cute tho.
Madoka
 
Added a second round where Asriel goes all out, and prevented Madoka from bringing Asriel to her realm.
 
So...How would they even meet?


I mean...Homura could touch Madokami because she was in her closed realm dimention thingy.


This is like an old man trying to kill the word "Hope" from the dictionary.


It just can´t happen dude.
 
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
So...How would they even meet?

I mean...Homura could touch Madokami because she was in her closed realm dimention thingy.


This is like an old man trying to kill the word "Hope" from the dictionary.


It just can´t happen dude.
Click to expand...
Your talking about the battle or something?

Because it's like every vs threads that can have any character fight each other.
 
Madoka has speed advantage. Madoka rewrote infinite universes so his full power doesn't mean a whole lot they are both still the same tier.

Madoka wins due to speed advantage. (probably better feats too)
 
Asriel gets powerscalling from Chara and Flowey. Both destroyed the reality of the game and both are dwarfs compare to Asriel. And to be honest. If Asriel didn't rewrote infinite universes was because he had Frisk in front of him.
 
Chara and Flowley are both rated lower than Madoka, I'm not quite sure how that gives him an advantage lol. Both Asriel and Madoka have the same tier but Madoka should win due to speed advantage nigh omnispresence > immeasurable within the same teir
 
Aurasuke said:
Chara and Flowley are both rated lower than Madoka, I'm not quite sure how that gives him an advantage lol. Both Asriel and Madoka have the same tier but Madoka should win due to speed advantage nigh omnispresence > immeasurable within the same teir
Click to expand...
I'll equalize speed, then.
 
KingPin0422 said:
Aurasuke said:
Chara and Flowley are both rated lower than Madoka, I'm not quite sure how that gives him an advantage lol. Both Asriel and Madoka have the same tier but Madoka should win due to speed advantage nigh omnispresence > immeasurable within the same teir
Click to expand...
I'll equalize speed, then.
Click to expand...
Lol that's like saying touma kamjiou vs the flash speed is equalized. It would be a tie if we're going by tiers or Madoka wins due to feats if speed is equalized. Either way for it to be considered a real match that can be submitted both parties have to have unrestricted power.
 
Pretty sure the both on even terms in strength, if not Asriel being slightly stronger.

But he can't exactly hit her due to her having a huge speed advantage and due to being a conceptual entity, not sure if his Full Power ability can even affect her.

I'd say a draw.
 
The way I see it Madoka being High 2-A means she can rewrote reality for infinite universes. Asriel is more like power scaling and statements. But since they are both High 2-A even if we assume they have the same AP, Madoka has a higher speed.

The thing is you can't really say he's slightly stronger because he isn't tier 1-C. Infinite means infinite, you can't be slightly stronger than infinite unless you have a higher degree of infinity which would be 1-C. Even Asirel was quantifiable in terms of universes and his full power means he can destroy more, then Madoka would win in AP as well due to having already rewritten ALL universes which they are infinite of them.
 
Aurasuke said:
The way I see it Madoka being High 2-A means she can rewrote reality for infinite universes. Asriel is more like power scaling and statements. But since they are both High 2-A even if we assume they have the same AP, Madoka has a higher speed.
The thing is you can't really say he's slightly stronger because he isn't tier 1-C. Infinite means infinite, you can't be slightly stronger than infinite unless you have a higher degree of infinity which would be 1-C. Even Asirel was quantifiable in terms of universes and his full power means he can destroy more, then Madoka would win in AP as well due to having already rewritten ALL universes which they are infinite of them.
Click to expand...
Just because they are both High 2-A doesn't mean they are even in strength.

Asriel matches Madoka's tier while messing around, and him serious >>>> him playing with Frisk, that's my reasoning for him being stronger than Madoka, he doesn't have to exceed another dimension (resulting in 1-C) to be superior in output.

That's why I said it's a draw, Madoka won't likely be able to put Asriel down because he could just reset to a point where he's less injured and he won't be able to hit Madoka.
 
Your tier 1-C output is contradictory to the profiles which show high-2A for both of them.

Asriels page

(Dwarfs God Flowey in power by an infinite amount, who was able to effortlessly create and destroy numerous timelines in his fight against Frisk) | Multiverse level+ (Superior to his previous self by an immense amount, though to the exact degree is unknown)

Therefore his attack potency at best is same as Madokas. This was taken from his page.

This is madoka's page

High Multiverse level+ (destroyed the concept of witches in every universe before ascending to a higher level of existence to become a conceptual entity, her multiverse was later confirmed to have infinite universes in Puella Magi Homura Tamura)

Multiverse level+ vs High Multiverse+ I think enough is said
 
R1: Madoka, probably. I'd say her abilities are likely better and she could probably pull out a win with those, alone. Plus speed advantage.

R2: Asriel, probably. Being nigh-omnipresent isn't going to help if your opponent is so much vastly stronger than you are.

@Saikou

>implying Asriel couldn't ROFLstomp a conceptual being like Chara
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
R1: Madoka, probably. I'd say her abilities are likely better and she could probably pull out a win with those, alone. Plus speed advantage.
R2: Asriel, probably. Being nigh-omnipresent isn't going to help if your opponent is so much vastly stronger than you are.

@Saikou

>implying Asriel couldn't ROFLstomp a conceptual being like Chara
Click to expand...
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Asriel_Dreemurr

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Madoka_Kaname

There's no real proof that Asriel is vastly stronger than Madoka though. Madoka pretty much has the highest end feat for a tier 2 without heading into tier 1.

I think Asriels being of tier 2 was due to his numbers being read as infinity or something? Either way he isn't tier 1 so he can't actually be stronger than Madoka who rewrote infinite universes.
 
Aurasuke said:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Asriel_Dreemurr

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Madoka_Kaname

There's no real proof that Asriel is vastly stronger than Madoka though. Madoka pretty much has the highest end feat for a tier 2 without heading into tier 1.

I think Asriels being of tier 2 was due to his numbers being read as infinity or something? Either way he isn't tier 1 so he can't actually be stronger than Madoka who rewrote infinite universes.
Click to expand...
Untrue. Infinity is not always equal.

Kagutsuchi is High 2-A. Demi-Fiend is also High 2-A, but is superior to Kagutsuchi. At full power, Demi-Fiend is even stronger than that, but still High 2-A.

Asriel is casually High 2-A, but also High 2-A when serious. This does not mean serious Asriel = casual Asriel.
 
Even so there's no real proof that one inifnity from on verse is bigger than another simply because they defeated a being of similar power.

For instance I could have 1000 times infinity=infinity

or I could have infinity*infinity=infinity=infinity as well

Yet there's no way to tell apart which one is higher in math because the final answer is the same. Since Madoka never really fights another being tier High 2-A, we don't have anything to compare her too. However we do have that she managed to rewrite infinite universes.

In short simply if we treat Asriel casual as infinity and Asriel serious as Infinity * 100=Infinity, we still won't know that he's above Madoka who is Infinity in her world as her infinity could be anything from 2*Infinity to infinity*infinity.

In any case Madoka at least has feats of rewriting infinite universes which means she is at the highest possible measurement of what is required of being High 2-A and not Low 1-C.

However Asriel is basically by powerscaling to himself.

Thus the only way we can really have a proper battle from different series is to treat High 2-A=High 2-A in AP
 
Yes, we don't know which infinity is bigger, but as you said, we can use feats.

Madoka rewrote the laws in infinite universes.

Asriel while messing around is infinitely stronger than someone who casually one-shot countless universes.

Asriel while being serious is an unfathomable number of times stronger than that, and his transformation alone completely froze someone who could previously tank his attacks without trouble.

He then proceeded to kill them multiple times, each time having them slowly get closer and closer to non-existence despite the fact they basically had an ability which could overwrite such things, which it could not, in this case.

Asriel then proceeded to take no damage whatsoever from said foe and only "lost" the battle because he willingly stopped and returned everyone's souls to their rightful owners.

To me, this is far more impressive than Madoka erasing witches throughout the multiverse.

Also, Asriel isn't "powerscaled to himself", unless you're referring to his second form, which makes sense. His first form is powerscaled to guys like Chara and Flowey.
 
Asriel while messing around is infinitely stronger than someone who casually one-shot countless universes.

So that's infinite*x where x is a big number, but countless doesn't really equal infinite. But you said that he required time to kill them multiple times. Madoka rewrote the all those universes at the same time, and is technically beyond the concept of time.

Yes, I was reffering to his second form, but either way, even with all of this considered there's no way to prove that he is stronger than Madoka simply because he defeated stronger people and is countless times stronger than himself in his first form.

Simply stated, if we have an inifnite 2-D plane, we can multiple that by let's say 1000 but the resulting number will still be infinite. The only possible way we can get a higher degree of infinity is if we have a perpendicular axis that is adjacent to the 2-D plane.

Even if he's above others who have destroyed 'countless' (seems like a relative term here, could be something like 1000 or 10^1000 but anyways) by an infinite degree, and his stronger form is 100 times his weaker form, there's no proof that his weaker form was the same degree of infinity of Madoka's to begin with.

Basically what I'm saying is that you believe that in his weaker form and Madoka's God form, both of their infinity can be represented by x=x. Then in Asriels stronger form his x becomes 100x which is greater than Madoka's x.

However at the same time it could be the other way around. Since we don't know.

Madoka's x could be 1000x in all forms and thus

x<1000x and 100x<1000x.

We can't just say that because he defeated let's say someone who was 0.5x which is half of infinity, but still that he could defeat someone with an unknown value before X.

It's one of those ideas in calclus where you don't know either function for each character as X approaches infinity.

If x is infinity

Madoka's function could be X in her god form or it could be X^X or X^10000

Basically infinity cannot equal infinity in math, it's called an indeterminant state.
 
No, I never said countless = infinity. That's why Chara is 2-B. However, being infinite compared to a 2-B is High 2-A, just as being infinite next to a 2-C or 2-A is.

Um, no. He didn't require "time". He'd already destroyed our basic 3-D perception of time. Higher dimensional versions of time are not the same as ours, and Madoka only exists beyond ours, just as Asriel does.

Never said it was proof. I said Asriel's serious feats are more impressive than Madoka's, but I don't think his casual feats are. You suggested we compare feats, which is what I was doing.

The bottom half of your comment is correct, which is why, again, we compare feats, which I did.
 
Yeah but even those feats aren't really enough to prove that he's stronger.

Let me give a mathematically explanation of why that is.

Your assumption

Let x=infinity

madoka=x

Asriel=x

However Asriel's serious mode is 100x

Let's say whowever Asriel beat had only 20x so Asriel beat him (this is probably false, they probably be a large number but not infinite by your statement btw but this is just to prove my point)

Thus Asriel wins and beats madoka

However if I turn around the chessboard

Possible assumption

Let x=infinity

Madoka = 1000x

Asriel=x

Asriel serious=100x

Madoka wins.

Basically you assume because he defeated others who are close to infinite he is more powerful than Madoka who hasn't defeated those close to infinite. You believe that defeating higher dimensional being and being an unknown perhaps large number of times stronger than yourself at infinity, you are stronger than someone at another infinity.

However both of those feats are ranked HIgh 2-A, thus mathematically it cannot be proven.

Basically you're saying that his feats are better when they have the same tier. Another may also argue that rewriting infinite universes is more impressive, it's impossible reality to quantify.
 
I've already been over this. You said we should compare feats becaue one cannot determine how strong two High 2-A characters from across franchises are compared to each other.

I did exactly that, and said that in my personal opinion, Asriel's serious feats are far, far more impressive.

You can disagree, but if you truly believe there is no way to discern which of these feats is better, then you have no reason to say Madoka wins other than saying "I like Madoka, more".

Also, I kinda doubt now that Madoka has a speed advantage. Because if we're basing her nigh-omnipresence off the fact she's a concept present everywhere in the multiverse, so is Chara, and Asriel's vastly superior to them. In fact, Asriel is also likely omnipresent through the game.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
In fact, Asriel is also likely omnipresent through the game.
Click to expand...
Perhaps even out of it, too? Silly flower. Fourth wall break wasn't good enough, so he had to go for the fifth wall.
 
Drac32Drac said:
Perhaps even out of it, too? Silly flower. Fourth wall break wasn't good enough, so he had to go for the fifth wall.
Click to expand...
Heh, true. He does seem to know of the player's existence (and even directly speak to them after the true ending).
 
He's apparently aware of his YouTube audience as well via let's play style broadcasting, hence the fifth wall break.
 
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