Utsuho Reiuji vs. Asriel Dreemur

[StrymULTRA]

To be fair, Frisk being able to still move was more a game mechanic, as in both Undertale and Deltarune it's clear that both body and soul move.

 

[ShionAH]

Utsuho / Asriel
- Azzy is in his Full Power key.
- Speed is equalized
- Both start 20 meters away
- Battle takes place at The Barrier (Undertale)

I voted Asriel and @StrymULTRA as well I believe

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I voted Asriel and @StrymULTRA as well I believe

Nah, he think Asriel can't do much here afaik so no vote from him

 

[Robo432343]

incon??

 

[StrymULTRA]

I voted Asriel and @StrymULTRA as well I believe

I didn't

 

[ShionAH]

I didn't

Then I did only

 

[ShionAH]

incon??

Asriel can win with his passive

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Pretty sure Frisk broke free. They couldnt reset or save which is done with the soul

Broke free only to get paralysed again? And they cant reset or save in battle mode regardless.

To be fair, Frisk being able to still move was more a game mechanic, as in both Undertale and Deltarune it's clear that both body and soul move.

Flowey forcefully shrieked the bullet board making Frisk's soul unable to move +undodgeable danmaku is still a thing. If Toby really wanted to emphasize that Frisk couldn't move, he could have used the same excuse.

Yes, soul and body can be used interchangeably but they can separate and be independent (kina? idk).
Best example in deltarune is the Susie vs Lancer fight.

 

[ShionAH]

Yes, soul and body can be used interchangeably but they can separate and be independent (kina? idk).
Best example in deltarune is the Susie vs Lancer fight.

They can be separate? It thought that was disagreed with.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

They can be separate? It thought that was disagreed with.

Im guessing it was disagreed within undertale cus i remember toby stating that soul coming from the cornor of the screen was intentional.
Also when Undyne impales Frisk, they can get away unharmed if they manage to dodge bullets with their soul.
This happens with colored laser attacks in the overworld too (but tbh this is more likely to be game mechanics)

 

[ShionAH]

Im guessing it was disagreed within undertale cus i remember toby stating that soul coming from the cornor of the screen was intentional.
Also when Undyne impales Frisk, they can get away unharmed if they manage to dodge bullets with their soul.

With that logic all the monsters can rip out the enemies soul then? You do know that would give Undertale a big upgrade right

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Incon FRA

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

With that logic all the monsters can rip out the enemies soul then? You do know that would give Undertale a big upgrade right

That second part about Undyne was to further support the idea that effecting body may not be necessarily effecting the soul (its still likely a game mechnich)

 

[ShionAH]

Incon FRA

It might be a stomp or a win for asriel depending on how his paralysis works.

That second part about Undyne was to further support the idea that effecting body may not necessarily effecting the soul (its still likely a game mechnics)

No what I mean is the thing you are defending means monsters actually grab your soul and rip it out to fight with you leaving your body nearby. That is a huge upgrade that I disagree with

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It might be a stomp or a win for asriel depending on how his paralysis works.

Not convinced by the argument for it tbh. But aight I'll wait, still voting incon now

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

It might be a stomp or a win for asriel depending on how his paralysis works.

No what I mean is the thing you are defending means monsters actually grab your soul and rip it out to fight with you leaving your body nearby. That is a huge upgrade that I disagree with

This is the scene Im talking about:

 

[ShionAH]

Not convinced by the argument for it tbh

By the argument for what? If paralysis works on the soul its a stomp or a decisive win for Asriel if it does not its an incon

 

[ShionAH]

This is the scene Im talking about:

Uh thats what I am saying. By your logic every fight scene the monsters just grab our soul and attack it while our body just stays there

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Uh thats what I am saying. By your logic every fight scene the monsters just grab our soul and attack it while our body just stays there

waiwha-
Where did the grabbing part came from?
Frisk automatically enters battle mode, no need for a monster grabbing it to work.

 

[ShionAH]

waiwha-
Where did the grabbing part came from?
Frisk automatically enters battle mode, no need for a monster grabbing it to work.

I didnt mean grab in an actual way. When they fight frisk by your logic frisks soul leaves their body and fights right? Is that what you mean?

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

I didnt mean grab in an actual way. When they fight frisk by your logic frisks soul leaves their body and fights right? Is that what you mean?

Oh sorry, I thought we were arguing about the grabbing part... (English is not my native language :C )
I also disagree that Frisk just standing while their soul does all the dodging.
Papyrus' date also proves you right (when you interact Papyrus' hand with your soul, Frisk is holding hands with Papyrus).
The point I'm making is that even though soul and body can be used interchangeably, there can be exceptions (like here with Asriel).

 

[ShionAH]

Oh sorry, I thought we were arguing about the grabbing part... (English is not my native language :C )

Me too lol

I also disagree that Frisk just standing while their soul does all the dodging.
Papyrus' date also proves you right (when you interact Papyrus' hand with your soul, Frisk is holding hands with Papyrus).

Papyrus date isnt really a fight though so it is a different case I guess.

The point I'm making is that even though soul and body can be used interchangeably, there can be exceptions (like here with Asriel).

Not convinced tbh. That is extremely weird and unreliable as we will never know when Frisk's body is in the battle and when its not. Voting Asriel because of paralysis

 

[ShionAH]

Also from frisks page.


Resistances to Paralysis Inducement (Seemingly was able to break themselves from asriel's paralyzing influence[6])

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Not convinced tbh. That is extremely weird and unreliable as we will never know when Frisk's body is in the battle and when its not. Voting Asriel because of paralysis

Deltarune shows that Kris' soul can float outside their body, the examples I can think of are these:
Kris's soul sealing the fountain, soul floating in front of Spamton to enter yellow mode, and of course Soul breaking out of prison to interfere with Susie fighting Lancer.
I know linking Undertale and Deltarune is unreliable but, this acts as a supportive evidence

Resistances to Paralysis Inducement (Seemingly was able to break themselves from asriel's paralyzing influence[6])

Frisk broke out of paralysis only when they gained high amounts of determination (when the SAVE option appeared) they were still paralyzed before that, except their soul.

 

[ShionAH]

Deltarune shows that Kris' soul can float outside their body, the examples I can think of are these:
Kris's soul sealing the fountain, soul floating in front of Spamton to enter yellow mode, and of course Soul breaking out of prison to interfere with Susie fighting Lancer.
I know linking Undertale and Deltarune is unreliable but, this acts as a supportive evidence

Really unreliable like I said. This means we have no idea when the body and soul are together and when they are apart in undertale because theres no visual

Frisk broke out of paralysis only when they gained high amounts of determination (when the SAVE option appeared) they were still paralyzed before that, except their soul.

They couldn't save and load which is done with the soul though.

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'm voting utsohu, mostly cause this spirit Manipulation might turn this into a bleach situation since most of this is all soul based.

Spirit Manipulation (Touhou Project)

Spirit, also referred to as Spirit Power, Spirit Energy, Temperament, and so on, is a power source commonly found throughout the Touhou Project series. It functions as the power-up system in the bullet hell titles, while it is a character's special meter in the fighting games. Spirit does not...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[ShionAH]

I'm voting utsohu, mostly cause this spirit Manipulation might turn this into a bleach situation since most of this is all soul based.

Spirit Manipulation (Touhou Project)

Spirit, also referred to as Spirit Power, Spirit Energy, Temperament, and so on, is a power source commonly found throughout the Touhou Project series. It functions as the power-up system in the bullet hell titles, while it is a character's special meter in the fighting games. Spirit does not...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shit if she has that she stomps I think. She has resistance to soul manipulation which is all there is to undertale lol

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Really unreliable like I said. This means we have no idea when the body and soul are together and when they are apart in undertale because theres no visual

There is some implying, but not outright confirmed, like:

• Mettaton's soul/heart floating out of his PP to fight "heart to heart".
• When Frisk is stuck in Muffet's web they are still able to move their soul.
• Flowey commenting on how souls are struggling inside him after he absorbed the 6 human souls.
• When Undyne turns your soul green and making Frisk unable to escape, Frisk presumably can get close enough to FIGHT.
• When Madgic "confuses" Frisk's soul starting to drift.
• And lastly but most importantly, Frisk's soul being able to move even when their body is paralyzed.

I have probably missed some other scans but these were enough to convince me.

They couldn't save and load which is done with the soul though.

They couldn't save and load, cus Asriel with 6 (+1) human souls was more determined than frisk.
Also I didn't refer to "save" as in quick saving a game, but rather the option to [SAVE] our friends.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Shit if she has that she stomps I think. She has resistance to soul manipulation which is all there is to undertale lol

Wouldn't paralysis still work tho?

 

[ShionAH]

There is some implying, but not outright confirmed, like:

• Mettaton's soul/heart floating out of his PP to fight "heart to heart".
• When Frisk is stuck in Muffet's web they are still able to move their soul.
• Flowey commenting on how souls are struggling inside him after he absorbed the 6 human souls.
• When Undyne turns your soul green and making Frisk unable to escape, Frisk presumably can get close enough to FIGHT.
• When Madgic "confuses" Frisk's soul starting to drift.
• And lastly but most importantly, Frisk's soul being able to move even when their body is paralyzed.

I have probably missed some other scans but these were enough to convince me.

So what are you suggesting? Soul can move without the body? Do monsters always fight the soul when the body is standing there? Its illogical to think both of those things happen in the same situations

They couldn't save and load, cus Asriel with 6 (+1) human souls was more determined than frisk.
Also I didn't refer to "save" as in quick saving a game, but rather the option to [SAVE] our friends.

They couldnt reach it

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

I'm voting utsohu, mostly cause this spirit Manipulation might turn this into a bleach situation since most of this is all soul based.

Spirit Manipulation (Touhou Project)

Spirit, also referred to as Spirit Power, Spirit Energy, Temperament, and so on, is a power source commonly found throughout the Touhou Project series. It functions as the power-up system in the bullet hell titles, while it is a character's special meter in the fighting games. Spirit does not...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shit if she has that she stomps I think. She has resistance to soul manipulation which is all there is to undertale lol

Wouldn't paralysis still work tho?

 

[ShionAH]

Wouldn't paralysis still work tho?

Wouldn't paralysis still work tho?

How? You just said it work and help asriel win this match??

Anyways if asriel paralysis the body and the soul she probably resists it and wins or if asriel only paralysis the body she uses a thoughtbased hax or something from that wall of text

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

So what are you suggesting? Soul can move without the body? Do monsters always fight the soul when the body is standing there? Its illogical to think both of those things happen in the same situations

Im guessing their soul moves with their body but in certain situations, this could change.

They couldnt reach it

Because Asriel has more determination :v

 

[ShionAH]

Im guessing their soul moves with their body but in certain situations, this could change.

Theres literally no way to tell them apart.

Because Asriel has more determination :v

Then frisk would press it and it wont work, frisk just couldnt reach it as they are paralyzed

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Theres literally no way to tell them apart.

But we know that they CAN.

Then frisk would press it and it wont work, frisk just couldnt reach it as they are paralyzed

Saving the game (save file), is different from saving your friends (SAVE)
They couldn't reach it not because they were paralyzed (isn't saving and loading thought based anyway)
but because Asriel was more determined.
"But with what little power you have, maybe you can SAVE something else..."

 

[ShionAH]

But we know that they CAN.

Doesnt matter when we have no idea when they can what they can do or anything

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Doesnt matter when we have no idea when they can what they can do or anything

Then what could be the reason for Frisk's soul being able to move even when paralyzed (Also when in purple mode)?

 

[ShionAH]

Then what could be the reason for Frisk's soul being able to move even when paralyzed (Also when in purple mode)?

Welp I guess we will never know

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Welp I guess we will never know

 

[ShionAH]