Madara Uchiha vs Sosuke Aizen

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Anime4life202
And after madara is under KS, there isn't much he can do at all. He could try limbos etc but that would all be in his warped perception of reality.

Madara has only ever been shown to use Izanagi to revive himself, and you really think he's gonna sacrifice his sharingan just so Aizen can just use KS again, or get rekt by visual disadvantage?

@Uchihazinon

Aizen has never told anyone the effects of KS until he's already cast it on them, rendering them useless against it anyways. You can argue that he may be cocky, but he's not stupid.

No they wouldnt. Any clone thinks and acts independantly then that of the user, otherwise clones wouldnt have their knowledge be transfered back to the user like how Naruto and his clones do it. Besides that, even if the clones are under KS too its not like Aizen can manipulate them. They are all in a different plane and he cannot sense or see them at all. Thus his KS would only be able to work on the real Madara in his plane, not the Limbo clones.

Okay and? The Izanagi has never been stated to only work on death-related situations. Madara has only never had a reason to use the Izanagi besides reviving him from death and given that it sacrifices an eye he wouldnt just use it carelessly. Also no, like you said Aizen isnt an idiot. If Madara used Izanagi to escape the fate of being brought under KS, then Aizen would clearly see that his Perfect Hypnosis wouldnt work on him (and since Aizen doesnt know Madara needs to sacrifice an eye, Aizen would just assume Madara can spam it) and he wouldnt use it again he would change his tactics. Besides, whats stopping Madara from just using the Limbo clones to use Izanagi for him? They have the Sharingan as well and whatever the clone does effects the caster once the Jutsu on the specific clone wares off, like when Naruto used his clones to gather Nature Energy and have it transfered to himself to use Sage Mode more than once. I can see the same thing happening here with Izanagi.

Finally, IIRC, the Rinnegan allows the user to read minds. Ino herself admitted that the pain that read Shizune's mind was using a jutsu extremely similar to the Yamanaka Clan's jutsu only done at a much faster rate. If that's the case, then cant Madara just read Aizen's mind and discover he will use KS on him? Then Madara can set up a counter measure that way as well.

 

[Riptide240]

He has cancelled the spell on ks in the past when he had won fights. So why wouldn't he cancel the spell on a slashed up Madara. He cancelled a little while after he faked his death, he also cancelled after Toshiro stabbed Hinamori and after he thought Yhwach was dead. There are more but those are the ones that come to mind

The major thing wrong here is that Aizen is WAY smarter than you're giving him credit for. Aizen wasn't being arrogant at all until he became transcendent, he was just confident that nobody could beat him, and he was right. He had so many plans and countermeasures against everyone that he setup hundreds of years in advance that it really didn't matter if he released KS. Against a random opponent, Aizen wouldn't dare risk that.....he's too smart and has too much experience. Not to mention he'd be able to sense if he was still alive

 

[Riptide240]

Finally, IIRC, the Rinnegan allows the user to read minds. Ino herself admitted that the pain that read Shizune's mind was using a jutsu extremely similar to the Yamanaka Clan's jutsu only done at a much faster rate. If that's the case, then cant Madara just read Aizen's mind and discover he will use KS on him? Then Madara can set up a counter measure that way as well.

Then you don't remember correctly, because in order to use the Rinnegan to read minds, you have to extract their soul and absorb it. Considering Aizen 'is' a soul thats not even possible and he wouldnt just stand there as Madara puts his hand on him and does that. And btwbtw, KS doesnt work like that. IF its strong enough to work on someone who can see the future even when he was aware that he was under its power and still got fooled, then even if Madara knew and tried to use Izanagi or anything of the sort, it wouldnt change that he's now forever under Aizen's spell until he lifts it. His main power rests in his eyes and ability to see, even tho he's a capable fighter without his eyes, same with Yhwach. No matter what he uses, he's still under Aizen's comolete control

 

[Perilouss]

@Anime4life2020

I believe you misunderstood what I said. If Aizen uses KS at the start of the fight (which he will do because Aizen always casts KS upon meeting anyone on the first time except ichigo, he's done this countless times), then Madara may think that he is creating limbos when he's actually not. This is completely different from Aizen attempting to cast KS on different actual real life limbos.

Once Aizen puts Madara under KS, he basically has no other choice than to use izanagi. He may be somewhat more prepared the second time round (with just a single eye this time lmao) but the fact of the matter is it will still be hard for him to avoid being KSed a 2nd time since it is so simple to cast and for someone with no knowledge of how KS even works he will likely not even know what he's looking to avoid. Even Yhwach with 1000 years under his belt fell under KS influence so easily and he didn't even know it happened until Aizen told him. It appears Aizen doesn't even need to mention his shikai release command and you don't even need to look at his sword in order to activate it since he was strapped on a chair with everything surpressed and still easily placed Yhwach of all people under his KS. What on earth makes you think Aizen won't be able to easily place Madara under KS again??

The rinnegan does allow users to read minds, however you must affirmably place your hand on the victim's head and pull his soul out of his body. You know Madara could never do that to Aizen in a fight. Even Nagato willingly and was happy to sacrifice the mind-reading Human path in order to protect the animal path during his battle with naruto, which goes to show how practically useless it is in a fight.

 

[Riptide240]

^this

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Finally, IIRC, the Rinnegan allows the user to read minds. Ino herself admitted that the pain that read Shizune's mind was using a jutsu extremely similar to the Yamanaka Clan's jutsu only done at a much faster rate. If that's the case, then cant Madara just read Aizen's mind and discover he will use KS on him? Then Madara can set up a counter measure that way as well.

Then you don't remember correctly, because in order to use the Rinnegan to read minds, you have to extract their soul and absorb it. Considering Aizen 'is' a soul thats not even possible and he wouldnt just stand there as Madara puts his hand on him and does that. And btwbtw, KS doesnt work like that. IF its strong enough to work on someone who can see the future even when he was aware that he was under its power and still got fooled, then even if Madara knew and tried to use Izanagi or anything of the sort, it wouldnt change that he's now forever under Aizen's spell until he lifts it. His main power rests in his eyes and ability to see, even tho he's a capable fighter without his eyes, same with Yhwach. No matter what he uses, he's still under Aizen's comolete control

Im pretty sure Aizen used it on Ywhach when he wasnt using The Almighty to see into the future unless can Ywhach just see into the future without even activating it?

Just because Aizen 'is' a soul doesnt mean he cant still be absorbed by someone with decent or superior soul absorbing abilities. It's like saying a logia like Ace cant be absorbed by someone with Fire absorbing abilities. In this fight it would come down to who has the superior will or control and no one in Bleach has ever had to deal with soul absorbing abilities in the slightest considering they 'are' souls and thus they wouldnt ever have a need to counter it against similar beings. What suggests Aizen can stop Madara from absorbing him via the Rinnegan?

That just sounds like a massive No Limits Fallacy to one of the highest degrees. We can't just say Aizen's hypnosis will never go away until he "wills" it away. There's absolutely no evidence that something like fate manipulation or reality warping like the Izanagi can't get rid of his effects when Aizens hax has never dealt with such. That's like saying Gremmy's reality warping cant get rid of it.

Perilous that too also sounds like a NLF. Needing to look at his shikai was literally like the only notable limit to Aizen's hypnosis. We can't just assume that it can work on anyone even if they don't look at his KS being released. I dont even see how that's even possible. And as for the Limbo Clones and Izanagi, what if Madara summons them before Aizen releases his KS? He cant just unleash it instantly. Madara on the other hand can summon his clones very quickly so they can likely come out before the KS is released. And if Madara makes the effects of Aizen's hypnosis void via Izanagi then Aizen isnt going to just repeat the hypnosis again. He will clearly suspect that it might not work on Madara and will try another aproach. He is not an idiot or fool who would use the same trick again after seeing it fail the first time.

When did Nagato say he was fine with that? And it wouldnt really matter if they sacrificed any of them when they have the pain that could just bring them back to life at any time they could.

 

[Riptide240]

Ur forgetting the fact that both of those "NLFs" were both shown outright or stated. The first one was flat out said since no one has ever broken out of KS even when they knew they were in it and once you're hypnotized once, it lasts forever, as seen with the Visored. Even Yhwach when he had the Almighty and Soul King powers couldn't break out of it even tho he knew it was being used against him. The second one was flat out shown, he doesn't have KS anymore, he was bound to Chair-sama and still managed to place Yhwach under its power. How else would he have done it?

 

[RadicalMrR]

6 for Aizen (I also agree for reasons above)

3 Madara

 

[Riptide240]

what constitutes a win?

 

[RadicalMrR]

7-4 is the bare minimum in this case.

I only counted votes that gave an answer instead of just implying it and had valid reasoning.

Also due to these threads being a relative shitstorm I might have miscounted 1 or 2 votes.

 

[Riptide240]

Fair enough

 

[RadicalMrR]

Yep miscounted it's 7-3 it can be added.

 

[Riptide240]

Welp, it's protected so f**k that. Guess we're just gonna have to wait

 

[RadicalMrR]

Want me to request it?

 

[Riptide240]

Want me to request it?

Sure, thanks bruh

 

[Perilouss]

@Anime4Life2020

If you're seriously trying to argue that madara can release limbo clones faster than aizen can cast KS then I really don't know what to do with you.

Aizen strapped up and power restricted in a chair was effortlessly able to place yhwach (strongest character in the bleachverse by far) under KS without even saying anything what on EARTH is making you think that madara will somehow figure out or avoid aizen putting him under KS, he wont even know what is happening. And how will madara even know that aizen is trying to KS him and immediately start off by spamming limbo clones wtf??

Even if NLF, we can already reasonably extrapolate that KS should work on Madara as explained multiuple times above already.

Nagato sacrificing human path to save animal path clearly indicates human path isn't high in his priorities. And its clear as day he couldn't bring them back to life at any point/it would be a very inefficient move. And if your really suggesting that Madara would be able to affirmably hold Aizens head and rip his soul out before he can even react just shows your running out of arguments.

It seems to me like you are in heavy denial of Aizen's power.

 

[Riptide240]

@Anime4Life2020
If you're seriously trying to argue that madara can release limbo clones faster than aizen can cast KS then I really don't know what to do with you.

Aizen strapped up and power restricted in a chair was effortlessly able to place yhwach (strongest character in the bleachverse by far) under KS without even saying anything what on EARTH is making you think that madara will somehow figure out or avoid aizen putting him under KS, he wont even know what is happening. And how will madara even know that aizen is trying to KS him and immediately start off by spamming limbo clones wtf??

Even if NLF, we can already reasonably extrapolate that KS should work on Madara as explained multiuple times above already.

Nagato sacrificing human path to save animal path clearly indicates human path isn't high in his priorities. And its clear as day he couldn't bring them back to life at any point/it would be a very inefficient move. And if your really suggesting that Madara would be able to affirmably hold Aizens head and rip his soul out before he can even react just shows your running out of arguments.

It seems to me like you are in heavy denial of Aizen's power.

Don't worry, Aizen already took the victory m8

 

[BruceTheBatman]

This is pretty tricky. Madara solidly outclasses Aizen in almost every catagory except for a sizeable speed disadvantage. I also think Madra's regen and clones, along iwth solid hax give him a huge advantage. In the end I see Madara winning with high-difficulty.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Also BFR is not K.O.

 

[Riptide240]

This is pretty tricky. Madara solidly outclasses Aizen in almost every catagory except for a sizeable speed disadvantage. I also think Madra's regen and clones, along iwth solid hax give him a huge advantage. In the end I see Madara winning with high-difficulty.

Well to be fair, Aizen's hax would render all of Madara's just about useless and Aizen has regeneragtion and immortality as well

 

[Perilouss]

Madara solidly outclasses Aizen in almost every catagory

Lmao.

Btw does anyone know if Aizen actually has adaptive evolution? I keep hearing it being mentioned but can't seem to remember him using it in his fights, also its not on his profile page.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

I honestly think both of their hax kinda sux, but putting that aside: I'm also fairly certain Madara's regen is weaker but faster, which is more practical in a fight like this. Madara is still 20x more powerful than Aizen going by the charts, and while Aizen may be around 15x faster and could slightly injure and chip away Madara due to his relatively shoddy durability, Madara has a crapton of clones that are all capable of KOing Aizen in one hit, though they cannot kill him outright. Plus Madara getting hurt by Gai is PIS. He could've killed him instantly at any point he desired. Aizen's eventually gonna get hit and when he does it's game over since Madara won't let him regenerate. Madara can still send Aizen into space to BFR him while Aizen has been severely damaged and is incapacitated by taking a hit 5x stronger than himself (which would knock out anybody in real life, which by extension gives Madara the win), since Aizen can only teleport short distances and to my knowledge can't fly or move in space.

 

[Riptide240]

Aizen, just like every soul repaer can most certainly fly lmaooo. Aizen tanked hits from Yhwach who is by far superior to Madara and Kyoka Suigetsu would take Madara out from the start.....none of your point make any sense

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Aizen is 5-C, Madara is Low 5-B

Madara has been training longer to my knowledge, so even if Aizen is older he's got less experience. Correct me if I'm wrong however.

Madara's regen may be weaker, but it's similar in speed therefore just as practical since one hit from Madara would Obliterate Aizen since he's considerably stronger, while Aizen would need time to chip away one clone of Madara. A hit that will come since Madara has god knows how many clones.

With regards to intelligence, their profiles indicate that both are tactical geniuses. However, Madara is credited as a combative genius. Aizen is not.

Additionally sealing or the like isn't in-character for either.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Aizen, just like every soul repaer can most certainly fly lmaooo. Aizen tanked hits from Yhwach who is by far superior to Madara and Kyoka Suigetsu would take Madara out from the start.....none of your point make any sense

Flight in space isn't the same as in the atmosphere.

That's a good point, but Ywhach is kinda PIS TBH.

And I suppose you're right, I just wanted to argue a case for Madara :/


Anyway, not a perfect expert on either series, so I'll back out now.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Aizen is 5-C, Madara is Low 5-B
Madara has been training longer to my knowledge, so even if Aizen is older he's got less experience. Correct me if I'm wrong however.

Madara's regen may be weaker, but it's similar in speed therefore just as practical since one hit from Madara would Obliterate Aizen since he's considerably stronger, while Aizen would need time to chip away one clone of Madara. A hit that will come since Madara has god knows how many clones.

With regards to intelligence, their profiles indicate that both are tactical geniuses. However, Madara is credited as a combative genius. Aizen is not.

Additionally sealing or the like isn't in-character for either.

1. Yes, Aizen has trainingfor 100+ years as a Shingami

2. If he could hit him under KS that is the question.......

3. I don't know if soloing the Gotei 13 which has numerous power houses and genius in there own right dosen't make Aizen the same level if not greater then madara in cambative then i don't know what does....

 

[BruceTheBatman]

1) Alright then.

3) So did the people Madara fought in the great Shinobi War.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

1) Alright then.
3) So did the people Madara fought in the great Shinobi War.

3) They were mostly fodder expect for Team 7 (expect Sakura)

 

[Riptide240]

With Peter's vote solidifying it even more so, Aizen already won based on vote count guys

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Anime4Life2020
If you're seriously trying to argue that madara can release limbo clones faster than aizen can cast KS then I really don't know what to do with you.

Aizen strapped up and power restricted in a chair was effortlessly able to place yhwach (strongest character in the bleachverse by far) under KS without even saying anything what on EARTH is making you think that madara will somehow figure out or avoid aizen putting him under KS, he wont even know what is happening. And how will madara even know that aizen is trying to KS him and immediately start off by spamming limbo clones wtf??

Even if NLF, we can already reasonably extrapolate that KS should work on Madara as explained multiuple times above already.

Nagato sacrificing human path to save animal path clearly indicates human path isn't high in his priorities. And its clear as day he couldn't bring them back to life at any point/it would be a very inefficient move. And if your really suggesting that Madara would be able to affirmably hold Aizens head and rip his soul out before he can even react just shows your running out of arguments.

It seems to me like you are in heavy denial of Aizen's power.

Just rechecked and saw speed was equalized. My fault on that one.

Ywhach being stronger than anyone in bleach doesnt have to do with Aizen's hax if i recall. His Hypnosis ignores AP unless im getting something mixed up. And I already told you Madara's sharingan gives him precog and his rinnegan gives him mind reading which is why I said that. Dont tell me you forgot that fast. And in any case, in this fight, even if Aizen can unleash KS without having to saying anything or unleash anything, he wouldnt do so here. What would be the point in even having the Zanpakto if he could call it out without saying anything? Aizen only did it without using KS was because he was strapped down in his chair, thus he was forced to use it that way. I highly doubt Aizen would go to such a tactic when he not only has his KS with him as his weapon, in his hand, unstrapped, he's also facing an opponent who he thinks wouldnt require or force him to use his Hypnosis in that way. Aizen in character in general would be to unleash KS in the old fashoned way so theres more that points to Aizen actually activaitng his KS with his Shikai release then it does with him not using his Shikai release.

And that's exactly why im calling it out as NLF. We cant just magically assume Aizen can just use Perfect Hypnosis on anyone in any fight without needing to use his shikai release when it was only a one time only thing he was forced to do in the predicament he was in (something he wouldnt even do in character). What would be the range of it? Limitations of it? Exactly why im calling it as a huge NLF. Otherwise we would have to treat Kaguya the same way as she was able to place everyone under the IT when the moon wasnt even a thought yet. Does that mean she can use it on anyone either? Its not denying Aizens abilities and i know what he's capable of. His hax is definitely OP but saying it can automatically work without needing to use his shikai release when theres no exact range or limit to it is ridiculous.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ur forgetting the fact that both of those "NLFs" were both shown outright or stated. The first one was flat out said since no one has ever broken out of KS even when they knew they were in it and once you're hypnotized once, it lasts forever, as seen with the Visored. Even Yhwach when he had the Almighty and Soul King powers couldn't break out of it even tho he knew it was being used against him. The second one was flat out shown, he doesn't have KS anymore, he was bound to Chair-sama and still managed to place Yhwach under its power. How else would he have done it?

Okay and does that mean people like Galactus, Superman, Thor and tons of other characters tiers above Aizen cant either? And that it lasts forever on them as well?

That's why im calling it as NLF but you can see my later comment about why. And even then, you need to prove something like Izanagi, which is fate manipulation or reality warping, cant beat somthing that is just mere illusions, especially when Aizen has never fought anyone with these kinds of abilities.

 

[Riptide240]

You're missing the point. It's a hax, doesn't matter if someone's stronger than him, it bypasses that. And even if Madara could escape it using KS he has no idea what's going on. U still haven't disproven both the things I just said. No one has EVER broken out of KS before, even someone who can not only see every future, but rewrite them. That beats Izanagi by a long shot in terms of reality warping. Even if Madara escapes it the first time, he still won't have a clue as to what's going on and wouldn't even know how he did it, so what's stopping him from doing it again. Also, if Izanami can nullify someone using Izanagi, then why wouldn't KS? It's just an infinite genjustu. Plus, no ones assuming anything, it's an aspect of KS's hax that once ur hypnotized even just one time, it won't go away. That's the whole reason why it's dangerous, he hypnotized half the people in Bleach years ago and they're still getting shat on by it

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You're missing the point. It's a hax, doesn't matter if someone's stronger than him, it bypasses that. And even if Madara could escape it using KS he has no idea what's going on. U still haven't disproven both the things I just said. No one has EVER broken out of KS before, even someone who can not only see every future, but rewrite them. That beats Izanagi by a long shot in terms of reality warping. Even if Madara escapes it the first time, he still won't have a clue as to what's going on and wouldn't even know how he did it, so what's stopping him from doing it again. Also, if Izanami can nullify someone using Izanagi, then why wouldn't KS? It's just an infinite genjustu. Plus, no ones assuming anything, it's an aspect of KS's hax that once ur hypnotized even just one time, it won't go away. That's the whole reason why it's dangerous, he hypnotized half the people in Bleach years ago and they're still getting shat on by it

So your telling me that KS is capable of bypassing Multiversal beings in tiers 2 or 1 or even 0 now? What??

To be perfectly honest Madara isnt some dumbass when it comes to illusions. After all, he's a prodegy among the Uchiua, a clan that specializes in illusion based techniques on a daily basis. Not saying its anything like KS, but saying Madara would be 100% clueless in an illusion, now that im thinking about it, is kinda ludicris.

Yea and your using a verse with a bunch of fodders compared to that of beings who would roflstomp them and the verse horribly in general. Hence its a massive NLF.

Yeaa no. Ywhach may "rewrite the future" but its much more NLF and vague then Izanagi is because this is assuming Ywhach is automatically able to overcome whatever future threat that comes in front of him and THAT is what is what is unbelievebly NLF here, espeicially when Ywhach is featless in changing "every future" or incoming threat. Izanagi has actual limits and real reality warping which is why its much more understandable and acceptable.

Because why would Aizen do KS again if Madara broke out of it the first time? Like its been said before, Aizen isnt an idiot in the slightest and he clearly wouldnt do something that has failed a first time a second time. Adding to that, Aizen has no idea on whether or not Madara can either use Izanagi a certain number of times or as much as he wants so why would Aizen keep risking something that was already shown as ineffective just to prove a point? It makes absolutely no sense. This isnt like Goku or someone whos idiotic to do something over and over again, leaving him or herself a bunch of openings and disadvantages, until it works.

Because Izanami is the explict equal to the Izanagi? Something made totally to counter it? It's like saying Palkia would tie to any time manipulator because Dialga is its complete equal, like how time and space are equals when Palkia can be in a much higher or lower tier than the said time manipulator.

And again, we cannot assume that just because Aizen has used that on mostly fodders, it means he can use it on people who would stomp him in an instant. Its the very reason why his powers are full of No Limit Fallacies to the highest degree, equal to that of Ywhach. Im not even specifically arguing this for Madara im more arguing this for in general now. Its nonsense to say KS would work and stay working on characters who surpass Aizen in every single way to an unbelieveable degree.

 

[Riptide240]

Ok ur fighting a losing battle here. Everything you're saying is speculation or opinion on your part. Do you not know how a hax works? Unless ur specifically immune to that power or can counter it, it will indeed work on anyone. That's why it's a hax. Also, Aizen was able to place Yhwach under hypnosis with no indication, no sword and no release. U still haven't explained that.

Also you saying the Bleachverse is full of fodders in comparison to the Narutoverse is hypocrisy to the worst level. Almost every character has some sort of hax in Bleach, since most Bankais are OP as hell. Every one of your points is you saying how something seems or what you feel. I'm just stating what's there. And what's stopping Aizen from noticing that after escaping from his illusion, his eye is sealed/blind/gone? Aizen would definitely take notice that something happened. Plus, Wizen is a master at various different kinds of Kido, each with their own has, and stop referring to Madara as if he's completely our of Aizen's league, he could easily succumb to KS just like Yhwach did.

And say what you will (opinions) about The Almighty but he demonstrated numerous times that he can definitely see the future and rewrite with enough power that whatever he does can't be rejected or undone. Even with that ability Wizen STILL managed to screw with him and troll the sh** out of him even tho Yhwach clearly knew he was being trolled.....that's at least Level 10 trolling right there

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ok ur fighting a losing battle here. Everything you're saying is speculation or opinion on your part. Do you not know how a hax works? Unless ur specifically immune to that power or can counter it, it will indeed work on anyone. That's why it's a hax. Also, Aizen was able to place Yhwach under hypnosis with no indication, no sword and no release. U still haven't explained that.
Also you saying the Bleachverse is full of fodders in comparison to the Narutoverse is hypocrisy to the worst level. Almost every character has some sort of hax in Bleach, since most Bankais are OP as hell. Every one of your points is you saying how something seems or what you feel. I'm just stating what's there. And what's stopping Aizen from noticing that after escaping from his illusion, his eye is sealed/blind/gone? Aizen would definitely take notice that something happened. Plus, Wizen is a master at various different kinds of Kido, each with their own has, and stop referring to Madara as if he's completely our of Aizen's league, he could easily succumb to KS just like Yhwach did.

And say what you will (opinions) about The Almighty but he demonstrated numerous times that he can definitely see the future and rewrite with enough power that whatever he does can't be rejected or undone. Even with that ability Wizen STILL managed to screw with him and troll the sh** out of him even tho Yhwach clearly knew he was being trolled.....that's at least Level 10 trolling right there

It isnt speculation because its fact that Aizen has a bunch of people severly outclassing him.......unless your magically assuming im talking about specifically Narutoverse. And not all hax is like that from what im told only specific stuff like conceptual manipulation or reality warping can work on anyone without resistance to it. Hypnosis thath has nothing to do with either......I dont believe so. And its because there's no explanation to how Aizen did that without his sword or release that its an even bigger NLF. i'll repeat my questions: Whats the limitations of it? Whats the range of it? How does it even work without his KS? Nothing of the sort is explained, shown or specificed. He just magically did it to Ywhach while he was strapped down, which is why that using it here is pointless. Otherwise, Kaguya's IT is getting treated the same way.

Quote me one instance i brought in Narutoverse when saying Bleach is fodder please. Because im positive i only said its fodder to people who can stomp it horrbily. When did Narutoverse even get mentioned in that? And now your assuming he'll notice Madara's eye becoming like that and then automatically assume he's become blind? Kido i never took into account and you should also stop acting like Madara doesnt have counters for his KS, like Izanagi, Kamui or Limbo Clones, which one out of the 3 at least is definitely something Aizen's hax hasnt encountered and thus we cannot automatically assume it'll beat.

So again, if someone from tier 2 came up as a future threat for Ywhach, someone in tier 5, your saying he will overcome it no matter what? When all the future's he's rewritten were far far weaker than what im asking you in this question right now? This is wanking an NLF to a whole new level now.

 

[Riptide240]

@Anime4Life2020

Ok first of all, minor tweak, Madara doesn't have Kamui. That was only when he took Obito's eye. Moving on, the reason why the range doesn't get mentioned is because it was early said that you only have to see it once and he can hypnotize you whenever and wherever you are. The reason why Aizen was so OP in the show was because Kyoka Suigetsu was unbeatable, even after he explained it everyone was helpless and even scared of it. Obviously I'm sure it has some limit but it's just as obviously not all that exploitable. And after his fight with Ichigo he merged with KS, hence why he doesn't need the sword to use its abilities. Just one of the perks of once being transcendent. Also, other than Izanagi, almost nothing Madara has can permanently put down Aizen. Also, you REALLY don't know how hax works do you? For someone like Aizen and KS, it's unlikely to work against someone of a super high tier because they're usually immune to it, but them being of a high tier means nothing against has since u can be a tier 1A based purely on AP.

Anything related to BFR isn't taking him out of the fight, genjustus definitely working on him for very long, if not at all, and him having a habit of using KS at the very start of the fight puts him at a huge advantage against any clones or techniques in the first place since in all honesty, he may not even have a chance to use Izanagi to get out of it since by that time he may have gotten killed already. Aizen usually only makes minor changes and offsets to play mind games, but nothing big enough to arouse suspicion. Yhwach's power to see and rewrite the future doesn't give a damn about tier since, like I said, you can be a top tier for one reason only yet not be able to defend against The Almighty. Plz look up how a has works, it's meant to be an ability that exceeds the person's normal limits. Orihime for example is weak af, but her has ability to change the past is OP as hell if used correctly. Same thing with Tsukishima. Book of The End is him literally changing the targets individual past with no regards for what actually happened. He countered The Almighty with that crap despite him being a normal fodder human. It doesn't matter anyways since Madara isn't in a different league, so that whole debate is pointless to make

 

[KuuIchigo]

I don't know if this has already been said (since I just skimmed through this thread), but Aizen's KS works by looking at him now. Case in point when Yhwach went to talk to Aizen and got his senses distorted.

Edit: And please don't quote large block of text. You can use the @Username.

 

[Riptide240]

I don't know if this has already been said (since I just skimmed through this thread), but Aizen's KS works by looking at him now. Case in point when Yhwach went to talk to Aizen and got his senses distorted.
Edit: And please don't quote large block of text. You can use the @Username.

Yea sorry about that. And yea I mentioned it (whether or not it's being heeded is another thing). Also, since we took a score count and it's about 8-4 now. Since noone new is contributing a vote what's the limit?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It takes 7 votes in favor of one character to lend them the victory. If there's a certain number of votes another character has in relation to the other, there then has to be at least a 3 vote difference.

I presume that Aizen is the 8 and Madara the 4? If so, then it should be alright or something to have added or whatever...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

~Snip
Yes Madara has Kamui. Remember he took Kakashis eye and then took Obito's eye. Either way he has it, its even written on his profile. Anyways, i know that when he uses his KS im talking about what he did to Ywhach. Tho KuuIchigo already answered it so nvm.

BFR i agree wouldnt work but Kamui can also be used to just blow Aizens head off, like how Kakashi has done with Deidra's arm and tried to do to the Ten Tails. Also im talking about him using Izanagi before Aizen's KS gets activated and gets him under hypnosis. Or like he has done use it to survive death. Basically only use it when absolutely needed. And no the Limbo Clones wouldnt be effected because they act independantly and since limbo acts on a different plane, Aizen cant sense, see or manipulate them, even if they were somehow under KS.

Okay but what about the other half of tier 1 or 2's who are in that tier for all their overal hax? Aizens hax wouldnt work on them. Maybe the ones who are only that tier for AP but not the other ones.

So if it works by looking at Aizen then can't Madara just NOT look at him then? Otherwise if both are staring at each other until the battle begins then how is this even fair to Aizen's opponent? Everyone would literally just fall under it the moment the battle starts then. If thats the case then now i agree this matchup is pointless.