Madara meteors + Perfect Susanoo

[Rocker1189]

You do realize that logically, that makes no sense since the lone meteor shot that Gwyn uses comes before Onoki flies up to lighten it, regardless of the pillar sizes?

Unless you're suggesting the meteor reversed itself to give him more screen time.

I sdont get what the timing hase to do with the meteor's size. It is the same meteor.

 

[Rocker1189]

I guess that is that then.

 

[Golden_Void]

Now lets find some better pillar scaling with official translated scans






Being generous and assuming 18m, which is also what Gwyn got but higher than the average out of all of these scans-
1.52m = average male height

15.56px = pillar height

15.56px = 18m

1px = 1.156m

Height (1164.02px) = 1346.55m

 

[Rocker1189]

You are scaling further back pillars with much closer people and scaling the smallest pillars with the largest ones...

Some very obvious scaling mimstakes.

Even scaling pillar that you can not see their bottom...

Or top.

 

[Rocker1189]

Sorry but Keps is much more usable.

 

[Kepekley23]

Several scaling issues. People closer to the PoV, incomplete pillars, several layers of scaling just to get to one height, while my version is straightforward

That, and 15px for the final pic is untrue. Even 2px is generous.

 

[Golden_Void]

I literally scaled a pillar with people on it and you can see the bottom.

 

[CinCameron20]

Everything is being scaled out of perspective @Unite

 

[Rocker1189]

I literally scaled a pillar with people on it and you can see the bottom.

Except you cant see the bottom and even if you could. You are still scaling a clearly smaller pillar with the biggests ones. Not all pillar are the same size and the ones you would see would only be the biggest ones when the metoer is falling.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best if everybody involved please try to calm down, and ask the other calc group members, along with DontTalkDT and Kaltias to give input here instead.

 

[Kepekley23]

I agree with Ant. I'd prefer if we weren't smug and acted out of emotion.

Also, I won't argue too much with the Susano'o feat since it's just a bit feat and Madara already scales above what it yields. But the Tengai Shinsei is indeed Low 6-B.

 

[Golden_Void]

No scaling is going to be perfect then.

Here, the Mizukage is directly against a pillar, which is definitely not greater than 10x the visible height just glancing at the other pillars. Gwyn's calc shows that some pillars aren't even 30 meters in height.

And yeah, I got 18 pixels for the pillar height. Even if we used Kep's scaling, the height of the meteor only goes to the 6000 range.

Going to bed though, didn't expect an all-nighter

 

[Rocker1189]

issue is the 18 meter height is still wrong.. and you can not see the top of the Mizukage one..

 

[Kepekley23]

Only 2 pixels, and it visibly exceeds the actual height, so below that.

 

[RavenSupreme]

The pillars are all more or less the same size from what I observed. As such finding several panels where the visibility allows for scaling (e.g. in comparison to a human) would allow us to find the more likely size.

If we have several panels and scalings which tip into one direction in size and only few / one or two pointing in the other direction we know what is the author intended size and more likely to be used for scaling the Meteor.

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As such it less boils down into pure estimates and more into a task requiring great dilligence, as you have to go through several panels, chapter etc. to gather all the shots with the pillars and the scalings.

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I would recommend that as a baseline.

If no one likes to do it I will do it myself. But seeing how both, UMR and Kep are invested in the Calc, they should likely do it first.

 

[Kepekley23]

UMR is getting 18px because he is scaling from an image with non-standard height and width (the standard height of a panel is 480px)

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, the vast majority of panels that are being used against it are panels where the characters are several meters closer to the PoV, making them much bigger than they'd really be right next to the pillars

 

[RavenSupreme]

I have not checked the panels as it is, like I said, a bothersome work. Whether the things we scale the pillars to are more in the front or back of our readers POV however should only matter in a limited way, unless we are talking about giant sized drawn Pillars and ink-dot drawn humans. Differences like these are common in most pixel calcs and are something we usually deal with. Several meters will have a result in the overal size of the scaled pillars, yes. But they are not automatically inflating or deflating the result to such an extent that we should invalid the entire thing.

Not to mention there also are other things we potentially can scale off.

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Everything is, in my eyes, better than simply using 1-2 selected panels which confirm our narrative and ending in an endless, hundreds post long debate where we lose our cool.

 

[Kepekley23]

"At least Large Island level, likely Country level" via Tengai Shinsei is the only thing I can really agree with, in tht case.

 

[Antvasima]

Has anybody asked some other calc group members to comment here?

 

[Kepekley23]

UMR has invited a few.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good.

 

[Golden_Void]

Found a few more decent shots. The perspective difference is minimal. If you were to make these characters appear closer to the source, the pillars would actually be measured smaller.
That's why Kep's sca with Onoki has a 70 meter+ pillar, because he looks like a literal dot on the screen, and he's viewed as extremely far away from the screen.

Most of the scaling done between Gwyn and I have the pillars consistently under 30 meters.

 

[Golden_Void]

For reference, this is what 10 meters looks like, and this is what 70 meters looks like.

The tops of the pillars would never be visible in scans unless it was extremely zoomed out.

Also, there's no such thing as a standard 480px panel, especially for calculations. The picture of the meteor that Gwyn calculated takes up at least half of an entire page in the manga chapter.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Going by my initial suggestion of not focusing on 1 or 2 panels but searching through the manga to find more consistent panels to indicate a specific size, this appears to be a valid approach.

Given your scalings, how large would the meteor be, and in what way would it change the result?

 

[Kepekley23]

Since Madara's 2nd Tengai Shinsei traveled from the atmosphere to the battlefield within seconds, it'd compensate for whatever approach you think.

 

[Golden_Void]

Given your scalings, how large would the meteor be, and in what way would it change the result?

It would be nearly the exact same as Gwyn's calc, I only got 100 or so more meters for the height of the meteor than he did, any change would be minimal.

 

[Kepekley23]

Thermosphere height is 1000km. Absolute minimum height for that meteor to exist in.

Assuming Madara took 10 seconds to pull down the 2nd Tengai Shinsei, the speed is 100000m/s

Using Gwyn's mass:

• 0.5*0.5*2.42e12*100000^2 = 1.21e+22 joules, 2.9 teratons (Low 6-B)

 

[Golden_Void]

Where does 1000km come from?

"Most meteors occur in the region of the atmosphere called the thermosphere. This "meteoric region" lies between about 80 km and 120 km (50 to 75 miles) in altitude."

https://www.amsmeteors.org/meteor-showers/meteor-faq/

 

[Kepekley23]

"Meteor" there is being used in the sense of a meteoroid. Madara's Tengai Shinsei is an asteroid, and is therefore coming from low Earth orbit at least.

 

[Golden_Void]

Source?

 

[Golden_Void]

Plus how would that be accurate in the context of the feat? Onoki used his jutsu to lessen the mass of the meteor a considerable amount, and Gaara helped to slow its velocity, to the point where the meteor was safely resting on top of the rock pillars.

The second meteor came in at full speed and only split the first one down the middle while cracking itself in half. At 1e5m/s the first meteor should've been obliterated, unless it was slowed down considerably in Earth's atmosphere, which looks to be the case in both forms of the series. There would be a crater for tens of thousands of meters, plus Onoki took a direct transfer of energy from the second crashing into the first one.

Yeah, obviously it makes sense for the meteor to come from space to Earth and that is what yields the 6-B, but the impact doesn't add up at all.

 

[Kepekley23]

> Source

From the same link you posted and this, meteors that form on the Earth's atmosphere have a limited size cap. Meteors bigger than a few dozen meters can't form on the lower thermosphere, because they are just fragments of large asteroids (which Madara's Tengai Shinsei is)

 

[Golden_Void]

That addresses the first part ovo

 

[Kepekley23]

Energy required to fragment the asteroid (going by Gwyn's calc):

• 722388059701000*8 = 1.4 megatons (Small City level)

Speed required for the second asteroid to exceed that energy: 70 meters per second

Which in itself requires Madara and the Shinobi Alliance to be frozen in time for 25 minutes, which was obviously not the case.

Since the second Tengai Shinsei barely damaged the first one, it'd need to be moving slower than a human.

More likely alternatives:

1. It was PIS, since Onoki would have been crushed

2. The meteors actually scale to each other

 

[Kepekley23]

> At 1e5m/s the first meteor should've been obliterated, unless it was slowed down considerably in Earth's atmosphere, which looks to be the case in both forms of the series.

The problem with this approach is that the second one came down at full speed

 

[Golden_Void]

Well he was away from the crash site despite being directly underneath them, so he was really saved by plot. The first meteor also had its gravity lessened.

 

[Rocker1189]

I wish we got better information on how his weight reducing/ gravity reducing ability worked.

 

[Golden_Void]

Here you go, scroll up a bit for the other one:

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/databook-iv-collection-thread.1012315/page-4#post-52398551

 

[Rocker1189]

Huh.. that is surprisingly haxed.