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Luffy fights a giant ship

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Since the fight takes place in an oxygenated area of space then why wouldn't Luffy's flight work? (Since his flight's apparently just kicking off of air)
 
It would work inside the area, but he can't use it to come back to the area if Peridot throws him out of it. His flight not working was a response to someone saying he could fly back after being thrown into space.
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
2. You're arguing that "a character not being willing to do something should exclude it as a wincon for them" by using an example of someone's OOC action being a wincon for the other guy. That's a flawed argument at launch.
3. It's not treated as "OOC in general is not a stomp", and whoever's telling you that needs a slap in the head. We recurrently decide based on how unlikely something is to happen, to the point that I can recall more than one occasion where an admin had to make that known because someone was trying to farm a win based on "wincons" a character isn't even smart enough to think of on their own.

And yes, one of the admins in those situations was me.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong. But supporting your argument by using an example unfathomably more ludicrous than the situation posed in this thread is not making your case look good.
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My argument was, and is, "OOC actions are not automatically grounds to call something not a stomp, especially if unlikely."

Unfortunately, since the time of us starting this discussion-

MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
If OoC characters are considered a stomp, then all of Medaka's losses should be removed because she always let the enemy take the first move. But I agree that OoC matches are not stomps because they still have options to win
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I don't know shit about Medaka, but it's the last line that concerns me, along with the rest of this debate. I've seen it thrown around that "Well, Peridot can do it, so she's fine, it's not a stomp" with less discussion of "Alright, but how reasonable is it for her to do it?"

If it's a wiki standard to decide based on how unlikely, well, good. But, perhaps it's a personal opinion, but that's felt lost on me as of late. As if any remotely possible way to win is treated as a way for it to be fair. Just as you mentioned- someone actually tried to farm a win based on wincons. And I imagine that isn't the only time it's happened. And I feel like it's too common.

It's about the polarization- the unfathomable certainty that there, without a doubt, has to be a line. When faced with opinions of "OOC wincons means no stomp", an extreme (albeit very extreme) example is fitting for showing how no, it's not always that way, and very unfortunately, there is a sizable enough portion that believe in such for it to influence various matches.

(Admittedly, there was some light discussion before of how likely it is for Peridot to do such, but that's kinda taking place halfway through grace and the match is probably going to be added before a proper conclusion is reached.)
 
Yes, it would work inside the oxygenated area, but not when Luffy is thrown out of the area. There is no oxygen outside of the area, it's just normal space, so he can't use it to fly back inside the area.
 
Yes, alright but how big is it? Is it just a small bubble that barely extends around the ship? Or is much larger then the ship?
 
Moritzva said:
If it's a wiki standard to decide based on how unlikely, well, good. But, perhaps it's a personal opinion, but that's felt lost on me as of late. As if any remotely possible way to win is treated as a way for it to be fair. Just as you mentioned- someone actually tried to farm a win based on wincons. And I imagine that isn't the only time it's happened. And I feel like it's too common.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, if you feel like it's too common, that's because it is.

It's about the polarization- the unfathomable certainty that there, without a doubt, has to be a line. When faced with opinions of "OOC wincons means no stomp", an extreme (albeit very extreme) example is fitting for showing how no, it's not always that way, and very unfortunately, there is a sizable enough portion that believe in such for it to influence various matches.
And if you think this happens so often because people actually believe that "wincons automatically mean the match isn't a stomp", then I hate to burst your bubble, but you're wrong.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, people on this site are spiteful to one another, and VS threads are used as a means for that more times than I enjoy admitting. Pigsticking a stomp into a character's Notable Losses section under the pretense of "it's totally a fair match, really" is something people do constantly, either as a means of getting one in on a character they don't like, or getting one in on a person who supports that character. I assume it started in response to the fact that several people here like to call "stomp" in order to prevent their favorite characters from getting losses (or perhaps things happened vice-versa), but it's gradually been developing into its own problem for quite some time now.

And if you aren't happy with that, I don't know what to tell you, because I've been unhappy with it for as long as I can remember and I'm no closer to figuring out how to fix it than I was when I first recognized it for what it was. But the one thing I ca say is that it's not how we're supposed to be doing things, and that these "well the losing character has a wincon" scenarios are supposed to be analyzed case-by-case, not written off as a reason a match should be added.
 
@Negativity

All I can say is-

I agree completely. I am aware spite and competition, subconscious or deliberate, plays a massive role. And we share the same points. It's ridiculous how quick stomps are called or not called, often with intent to add an unfair match or remove a fair match.

I would like to belive that the conflict is over people truly believing in a flawed perception of stomps, but it's unfortunately more often not the case.

However, if it can be improved, just a bit, that would be nice. And revisions to stomp rules can't hurt.

Since this isn't the place for such a discussion- I wouldn't mind briefly discussing the matter on your wall, if you're up for it. I do feel as if the official Stomp Thread definition is a bit short and lacking, and better definition could save us a lot of debating.
 
We can do it after I get back home. I have real-life business I'm about to take care of, and I'll be gone for the next few hours.
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
We can do it after I get back home. I have real-life business I'm about to take care of, and I'll be gone for the next few hours.
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I'm at school anyways, and I'll be working today, so that'll be fine by me.

Sometime tomorrow, maybe?
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
Sure. I'll be much more free then.
Click to expand...
Alright.

Apologies for cluttering the thread, everyone.
 
Aldo, this is still a stomp as reasoning for why Luffy wouldnt be affected by the Tractor Beam were brought up
 
People caught in the tractor beam are still capable of thought, he can still use Conqueror's Haki as a result
 
I already debunked my claim of that, i'd appreciate it if you didnt ignore that. Gems can and have been knocked out.
 
The Calaca said:
I'm sorry but I don't get the reasoning behind your self-debunk. May you elaborate, please?
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Gems have been knocked out and have both willingly and unwillingly fallen unconscious, therefore Luffy can knock peridot out.
 
Right before it happened, she literally said "I'll show you how it's done" after hearing the others Gems we're having trouble sleeping. She was showing them how to fall asleep quickly.

Heck, Gems aren't even capable of passing out due to exhaustion, they have limitless stamina.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Seeing as the issues with the arguments are still being debated this cannot be added
Click to expand...
This is not how grace works, and you know it.

In fact, you yourself have closed threads while people were still arguing, specifically because grace was over and it was time to add the match.
 
And ive already said that if this is added i will immediately take it to the removal thread and post the same arguments, which i will
 
Despite that you're deliberately ignoring the arguments just so you can still insist with your debunked claims.

So the only argument you want to hear is yours.
 
Im not ignoring any arguments, im debunking the false arguments i made earlier in the thread because theyre factually incorrect
 
WeeklyBattles said:
And ive already said that if this is added i will immediately take it to the removal thread and post the same arguments, which i will
Click to expand...
Then do that. If everyone else has to run through the same rigmarole, you can as well.

Or, alternatively, you can stop closing threads while others are doing the exact same thing you're doing right now. It's up to you.
 
While ignoring the counterargument that Gems can't be knocked out or the argument that Peridot outlasts or could throw Luffy into outer space.
 
The only example you gave of Gems being knocked out was Garnet showing the others that she can fall asleep whenever she wants. If you have an example of them actually being knocked out, feel free to show it.
 
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