Luffy fights a giant ship

[WeeklyBattles]

Never said he'd knocke her out, Conqueror's haki creates shockwaves that are strong eonugh to poof her

 

[The_Calaca]

Nope, the only person who has created a destructive shockwave with his Haki is Shanks. Luffy's not on that level yet.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Unless Rose has weak will Conquerors will not work

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The OP wiki says otherwise

Also looking at how it works more it would actually knock her out

 

[Moritzva]

If the wincon exists even if the character is not bloodlusted, then it's because they can do it. Not doing so because in-character style says no it's not an argument to prove a stomp.

So is something not a stomp if it relies on an opponent acting OOC?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So is something not a stomp if it relies on an opponent acting OOC?

How else do you think Yang vs Dio and giorno was considered fair?

 

[The_Calaca]

And I'm telling you that he doesn't. Shanks is the only user known to date who's capable of exerting physical force with his Haki. Luffy can't do this and he uses his Haki regularly now.

@Moritvza

Gilgamesh has the hax power to win lots of matches, but he's so arrogant that he won't use it right off the bat, giving his opponents plenty of time to defeat him. That doesn't make his matches a stomp.

 

[Moritzva]

@Moritvza

Gilgamesh has the hax power to win lots of matches, but he's so arrogant that he won't use it right off the bat, giving his opponents plenty of time to defeat him. That doesn't make his matches a stomp.

There is a difference between not leading with something and flat-out not using something or ever showing doing anything like that in canon, ever.

If a debate relies on a person doing something they've never showcased or tried before as basis for it not being a stomp, is it a stomp or not?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And I'm telling you that he doesn't. Shanks is the only user known to date who's capable of exerting physical force with his Haki. Luffy can't do this and he uses his Haki regularly now.

Luffy cant knock people out? Because i know for a fact he can.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

@Weekly only fodders and weak willed people

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Peridot is 9-A, she's the definiton of fodder

 

[The_Calaca]

@Weekly I'm talking about using an aura outburst that could poof Peridot.

@Moritzva The Battlefield is in an oxygenated area in space and Peridot has a method to trap Luffy. For someone with Genius Intelligence, throwing a human to outer space would be a natural conclusion.

 

[Moritzva]

@Moritzva The Battlefield is in an oxygenated area in space and Peridot has a method to trap Luffy. For someone with Genius Intelligence, throwing a human to outer space would be a natural conclusion.

Could you answer the question, though?

 

[The_Calaca]

If it's a plausible wincon, it's not even if it's not in-character. If she's able to do so but she doesn't use it, then that's his fault in the fight situation.

Stomp is defined as a situation where one character holds no wincons because none of them would directly work on the opponent no matter what.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>For someone with Genius Intelligence, throwing a human to outer space would be a natural conclusion.

Okay there's your first mistake, peri is a genius as a Gem but she has little understanding of how humans work, even in the current season

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Weekly I'm talking about using an aura outburst that could poof Peridot.

Im talkig about him using haki to knock her out which he 100% would do if he were rendered immobilized by soething he couldnt muscle his way out of

 

[Moritzva]

If it's a plausible wincon, it's not even if it's not in-character. If she's able to do so but she doesn't use it, then that's his fault in the fight situation.

Stomp is defined as a situation where one character holds no wincons because none of them would directly work on the opponent no matter what.

Right, but if it relies on a character being OOC and doing something they've never done, is it a stomp or no?

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

@Weekly I'm talking about using an aura outburst that could poof Peridot.

Im talkig about him using haki to knock her out which he 100% would do if he were rendered immobilized by soething he couldnt muscle his way out of

That's not how Conqueror's work. You either pass out or not. It directly affects the mind of people and being lower tier doesnt mean you don't resist it. As long as one has enough willpower

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Peri does not even remotely have strong willpower

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

There's no struggle to resist it as long as the requirement of willpower is enough then nothing happens

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Peridot is the type of opponent to run and hide in the face of danger and beg for her life when cornered, she does not have the will to resist haki

 

[The_Calaca]

@Weekly it was you who dismissed the option arguing that Gems don't have the organs to be knocked out.

@Mori No, it's a wincon regardless.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because i did not understand the mechanics of it, which i now do, and i now say she would be knocked out

 

[The_Calaca]

What changed besides you knowing how it works now? What's the difference?

 

[Moritzva]

@Mori No, it's a wincon regardless.

Okay, so if it's a wincon for a character to act OOC. So is The Emperor of Mankind offing himself, despite being OOC, fair grounds for matches with him to not be a stomp?

 

[The_Calaca]

I don't know him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

What changed besides you knowing how it works now? What's the difference?

If by some infinitely unlikely chance that she manages to catch him in a tractor beam he uses haki and knocks her out

 

[Moritzva]

I don't know him.

Wiki's Strongest contender for a reason. Dude's ******* scary.

 

[The_Calaca]

@weekly That's not what I'm asking. What's debunked your initial counterargument for Haki not working on Gems, exactly?

@Mori I see. Not aware of the High Dimensional stuff nor the mainstream in the wiki, actually.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The fact that it works via willpower instead of mind manip and the fact that Gems are able to fall unconscious

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I think the only time Gems have shown to fall unconscious was when they voluntarily decide to sleep, but I don't think they've ever shown to be knocked unconscious by outside forces (except for Steven, but he's different).

 

[Moritzva]

I'm going to make a thread about stomps this weekend.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, that would probably be better.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Mori No, it's a wincon regardless.

Okay, so if it's a wincon for a character to act OOC. So is The Emperor of Mankind offing himself, despite being OOC, fair grounds for matches with him to not be a stomp?

I have no stake in this matchup, but this argument is tremendously flawed.

1. You picked a character who is, by and large, immortal to the point that he really only has one way to actually kill himself even if he wants to.

2. Why would something that's OOC for a character be a wincon for their opponent?

3. As far as I can tell, hurling Luffy into space in order to beat him is not nearly as far-fetched (and frankly, stupid) a scenario as someone like the Emperor killing themselves in the middle of a fight for absolutely no reason.

4. The Emperor has more ways to instantly kill 90% of his opponents than either of these two characters combined, and most if not all of them are nigh-impossible to avoid.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

If OoC characters are considered a stomp, then all of Medaka's losses should be removed because she always let the enemy take the first move. But I agree that OoC matches are not stomps because they still have options to win

 

[Moritzva]

@Mori No, it's a wincon regardless.

Okay, so if it's a wincon for a character to act OOC. So is The Emperor of Mankind offing himself, despite being OOC, fair grounds for matches with him to not be a stomp?

I have no stake in this matchup, but this argument is tremendously flawed.
1. You picked a character who is, by and large, immortal to the point that he really only has one way to actually kill himself even if he wants to.

2. Why would something that's OOC for a character be a wincon for their opponent?

3. As far as I can tell, hurling Luffy into space in order to beat him is not nearly as far-fetched (and frankly, stupid) a scenario as someone like the Emperor killing themselves in the middle of a fight for absolutely no reason.

4. The Emperor has more ways to instantly kill 90% of his opponents than either of these two characters combined, and most if not all of them are nigh-impossible to avoid.

1. Fair enough, though the example stands.

No. 2. is exactly why the argument isn't flawed. Why would something OOC be a wincon? I asked that question, and got told that yes, OOC is a wincon.

3. The scale of the OOC isn't the question. Are we debating if OOC actions make things a stomp or not, or how OOC they are? Since at the moment, it's treated as if "OOC in general is not a stomp", when I am more inclined to believe there is no definitive answer, and that it's about how OOC it is and how possible it is for that to ever come up, ever. Certainly, Peridot throwing someone into outer space is more likely than Emperor Suicide- but is it likely enough for this to not be a stomp?

That should be the subject of debate. "How unlikely does an unlikely action have to be before it's a stomp?" I'm sure absolutely nobody would disagree with saying relying on The Emperor to kill himself would be a stomp. So, where is the line crossed, and where is Peridot vs Luffy in comparison to that line?

4. See above.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Throwing him into space wouldn't be that likely under normal circumstances, but this fight literally already takes place in space, it's literally right there, and Peridot is smart enough to use that to her advantage.

There's also the fact that if Peridot manages to avoid being struck by Luffy for long enough (since running away and avoiding direct conflicts as much as possible is prefectly in character for her), Gear 4th would run out, granting Peridot the speed advantage and rendering Luffy unable to use Haki for 10 minutes, Haki being something he is heavily relying on here.

 

[Moritzva]

Throwing him into space wouldn't be that likely under normal circumstances, but this fight literally already takes place in space, it's literally right there, and Peridot is smart enough to use that to her advantage.
There's also the fact that if Peridot manages to avoid being struck by Luffy for long enough (since running away and avoiding direct conflicts as much as possible is prefectly in character for her), Gear 4th would run out, granting Peridot the speed advantage and rendering Luffy unable to use Haki for 10 minutes, Haki being something he is heavily relying on here.

If it can be argued how likely Peridot is to do that, that's fine. And if there are additional reasons, that's also cool.

I just don't like the idea of "Well, in one conceivable timeline, Peridot could do that, so case closed, not a stomp." without discussing how likely that is.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Moritzva

2. You're arguing that "a character not being willing to do something should exclude it as a wincon for them" by using an example of someone's OOC action being a wincon for the other guy. That's a flawed argument at launch.

3. It's not treated as "OOC in general is not a stomp", and whoever's telling you that needs a slap in the head. We recurrently decide based on how unlikely something is to happen, to the point that I can recall more than one occasion where an admin had to make that known because someone was trying to farm a win based on "wincons" a character isn't even smart enough to think of on their own.

And yes, one of the admins in those situations was me.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong. But I will say that supporting your argument by using an example unfathomably more ludicrous than the situation posed in this thread is not making your case look good.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, it seems to really denpend on the context of the match in question.