-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Lucifer Morningstar vs Lady Bernkastel
- Thread starter DarkLK
- Start date
- Status
- 32,327
- 20,212
Death isn't 1-A.
- 32,327
- 20,212
... What?
- 1,344
- 211
Not saying that Death is 1-A but cant Death still affect characters who are in the Void with even Lucifer saying to Silk Man that Death is Inevitable? Does that mean anything or is it just because of Deaths nature/function?
- 15,606
- 7,019
Matt upgraded Vertigo gods to hide his downplay.
Everyone knows the Presence is Tier 0. Which makes Elaine and the GEB Tier 0. Which makes DC/Vertigo the strongest verse in fiction.
Everyone knows the Presence is Tier 0. Which makes Elaine and the GEB Tier 0. Which makes DC/Vertigo the strongest verse in fiction.
- 32,327
- 20,212
Marvel is 16D and DC is 11D.
- 8,088
- 1,541
Azzy... Please... Don't...
- 15,606
- 7,019
The Living Tribunal can't melt steel beams.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 1,344
- 211
Maybe you should add Lucifers sword that he used to kill Michael and The Presence to his standard equipment
- 3,077
- 121
It wouldn't. Lucifer's sword was so effective only due to the presence's weakness. Bernkastel also sent Erika into the deepest parts of the Sea of Oblivion which surpasses Michael being Bfr'd by a ridiculous degree.
- 134
- 12
Lucifer is just a fictional character to Bernkastel. All his "Feats" mean as much to her as actual comic book characters to us. You might as well be slapping her with Vertigo comicbooks, because that's all the damage he'll do.
- 105
- 6
Gonna go with bern
- 948
- 212
In terms of raw power, Samael (Lucifer's "real" name acording to The Presence) can even tear apart nohtingness. But if Bern can survive everything Lucifer would do then this fight is taken to a psychological style. Bern is brilliant but Lucifer mind was made to manipulate others and be one step ahead "always". She could rip Samael's wings off but he is clever to the point of knowing the breaking psychological points of Bern.
In raw power terms (explosions, beams, magic and swords): inconclusive
In who is psychologically stronger: Morningstar
In raw power terms (explosions, beams, magic and swords): inconclusive
In who is psychologically stronger: Morningstar
- 24,180
- 3,935
But... Dream of the endless is a 1-A with plot manipulation and he's ludicrously far above himOrion'sBow said:
- 948
- 212
- 24,180
- 3,935
Isn't seekers god actually part OF DC?
- 948
- 212
Ok. So the scale goes... The Endless (Likely Death, Destiny and Dream)<Mohter Night=Father Time<Glory of the First Circle<Spectre<God (Seekers into the Mystery)<Lucifer=Michael<<The Presence<<<<Monitor-Mind The Overmind<<<<<<<The Writer.
Even if that is the case then this match is won by Lucifer because of the intellectual steps he is above Bern. I don't want to infer into the power terms because there is no clear evidence of him being above her.
Even if that is the case then this match is won by Lucifer because of the intellectual steps he is above Bern. I don't want to infer into the power terms because there is no clear evidence of him being above her.
- 15,606
- 7,019
I don't think he's part of DC canon.ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Also this match is hilariously old.
- 6,674
- 2,488
Doesn't Bern like stomp now?
- 40,446
- 12,914
Frankly, I'm unsure. Unlike Verigo, Umineko didn't get any new material, and Bern's power is based on what Azzy and DarkLK find.
- 948
- 212
Nah.NahPhoenix821 said:
She can give him a good fight but Lucfier can actually break her mind without the use of violence.
In other words he can defeat her because she has weaknesses that disrupt her desition and he is much more suited in fighting his opponents using complicated plans.
- 105
- 6
Not seeing why bern cant just select the path where she wins from the start with her magic. Tricking her isnt gonna do much imo when shes already "an avid reader of the mystery genre to the point where she's knowledgeable of countless tricks and riddles even Battler hasn't heard." also. iirc shes travelled across countless other "books" aka cosmologies etc outside of her own verse. Playing a mind game with her doesnt sound like a great idea. To put the icing on the cake if it calls for it bern can simply just will to become stronger, endlessly removing restrictions until lucifers power becomes faint in compare.
- 40,446
- 12,914
Thing is, I can't even claim NLF, because I know that 1-A is weird like that, but that still sounds (key word being "sounds", rather than "is") no different than the TOAA rules all fictions stuff, which is frowned upon.
- 24,180
- 3,935
The dark tower and discworld also claim All fiction
- 105
- 6
Good point. However she has seen over countless tricks and mind gamesThe real cal howard said:
- 948
- 212
Since Lucifer can exploit some aspects of her and defeat her in terms of mentality. If dared in a violent way she can use her Truths and nullify anything Samael throw to her (hellfire, voidness, yada yada yada) but she is not very stable mentaly speaking and Samael can take his opportunity in that way. If she wants to break him mentally there we could call a stomp in Lucifer's favor
- 105
- 6
Good point. However she has seen over countless tricks and mind games
Yet she was defeated by Battler on her own game.
Because she allowed it to happen
Yet she was defeated by Battler on her own game.
Because she allowed it to happen
- 948
- 212
What I said in another versus: is there any scan or theory about power levels in Umineko? If she is so good planer then she surely can give Lucifer a good fight then
- 105
- 6
I dont have any scans for you. But im sure darklk has some. All i know from her profile is that shes already seen through a uncountable amount of tricks. Backed up with her magic to literally chose the outcome she wants from the start. Imo id give bern the winBleedingPeach said:
- 105
- 6
Also would anyone know if bern transcends all conception? Iirc lucifer does. But what about bern?
- 948
- 212
Considering that both Samael and Rika (her human name, right?) make plans for everything we could say that Lucifer is always a step ahead and even improvising he knows how to deal with menaces that exceed him, Bernkastel is a very clever game master and her Truths are pretty much undeniables. But Samael is prideful and does not pay enough attention. Rika has problems with taking damage ("psycologically" speaking) and her miracles depends on the posibilities of something like that to happen.
Did she ever felt something else when something didn't go the way she wanted?
Is he truly immune to Fate Manipulation?
Did she ever felt something else when something didn't go the way she wanted?
Is he truly immune to Fate Manipulation?
- 105
- 6
Not depending on possibility they are the cause of possibility in the first place. The only weakness to berns magic if its litrrally impossible for such a miracle to happen. Even if lucifer can trick her into killing herself/psychological damage etc. She can just reform aslong as she wants to even if erased beyond the infinite hierarchy. She can come back as much as she likes her only actual limit is herself
Furthermore one of her better technique is Mysteries that pierce everything without mercy:
Each one being a different mystery, of real mysteries or mysteries from novels from the past, present, and future. She uses this against Battler, who couldn't resolve all mysteries and thus died due to the attack. The snakes can fuse into a giant one. This attack is so powerful that it completely one shot end game battler
But the best part is she can adapt to higher layers endlessly. Her power never reaching a peak and as a bonus....each instant she gets stronger the more limitations are removed from her completely due to her nature as a voyager witch and this is why i say before. Her only true weakness is herself
Furthermore one of her better technique is Mysteries that pierce everything without mercy:
Each one being a different mystery, of real mysteries or mysteries from novels from the past, present, and future. She uses this against Battler, who couldn't resolve all mysteries and thus died due to the attack. The snakes can fuse into a giant one. This attack is so powerful that it completely one shot end game battler
But the best part is she can adapt to higher layers endlessly. Her power never reaching a peak and as a bonus....each instant she gets stronger the more limitations are removed from her completely due to her nature as a voyager witch and this is why i say before. Her only true weakness is herself
- 134
- 12
Only two people have ever hurt Bernkastel: Battler and Ange, and both their destructive power far exceeds the normal definition of outerversal.
Ange's tale (Umineko) is the size of one book in Featherine's library, and it contains all other works of fiction in its final epilogue (The last tea party).
Bern and Lambda blow up several books in their fight in Featherine's library, meaning they'd have the power to destroy Umineko (And, by extension, all fiction), without hurting each other.
Battler makes Bernkastel puke by punching and kicking her with completely unavoidable attacks. She doesn't even bother fighting him with normal attacks, instead asking Featherine for help from her Overlord cats, which can't do anything with ordinary attacks, either.
Ange completely depowers (And had the choice of killing) Bernkastel with her golden eagle attack which caused an earthquake in the city of books.
Bernkastel only defeated Battler by spamming him with Truth attacks which a) bypass all defenses (Even the OP Endless Nine) by definition b) stopped him from attacking her and c) is the one attack that is absolutely effective at killing witches, which are absolutely immortal at his level. Ange could only resurrect him because she alone can deny Truth, like when she refused the Red Truth of the diary that Featherine wrote.
The only things strong enough to hurt Bernkastel are attacks that are stronger than attacks which could destroy all fiction, or attacks (Truths) which are specifically unique to her story.
Neither of which Lucifer Morningstar possesses.
Bernkastel's sheer defensive and destructive capacity makes Lucifer Morningstar look like an ant in comparison.
Bern wipes the floor with him.
PS: Stop saying "Lucifer is more intelligent than anyone; he'd just manipulate his enemies so he'd win." I've seen it all over the place, and it's a Vertigo version of the "Batman would win because he's Batman." thing which is really cringy.
Ange's tale (Umineko) is the size of one book in Featherine's library, and it contains all other works of fiction in its final epilogue (The last tea party).
Bern and Lambda blow up several books in their fight in Featherine's library, meaning they'd have the power to destroy Umineko (And, by extension, all fiction), without hurting each other.
Battler makes Bernkastel puke by punching and kicking her with completely unavoidable attacks. She doesn't even bother fighting him with normal attacks, instead asking Featherine for help from her Overlord cats, which can't do anything with ordinary attacks, either.
Ange completely depowers (And had the choice of killing) Bernkastel with her golden eagle attack which caused an earthquake in the city of books.
Bernkastel only defeated Battler by spamming him with Truth attacks which a) bypass all defenses (Even the OP Endless Nine) by definition b) stopped him from attacking her and c) is the one attack that is absolutely effective at killing witches, which are absolutely immortal at his level. Ange could only resurrect him because she alone can deny Truth, like when she refused the Red Truth of the diary that Featherine wrote.
The only things strong enough to hurt Bernkastel are attacks that are stronger than attacks which could destroy all fiction, or attacks (Truths) which are specifically unique to her story.
Neither of which Lucifer Morningstar possesses.
Bernkastel's sheer defensive and destructive capacity makes Lucifer Morningstar look like an ant in comparison.
Bern wipes the floor with him.
PS: Stop saying "Lucifer is more intelligent than anyone; he'd just manipulate his enemies so he'd win." I've seen it all over the place, and it's a Vertigo version of the "Batman would win because he's Batman." thing which is really cringy.
- 948
- 212
To be honest I'm saying he's could win because he's more intelligent. I'm just saying this isn't a fight against a normal street thug who just goes to beat her. I've also seen a versus against The Presence and people consider that a stomp in favor of Bern. If your opinion is not the same as me then there's no problem. But please... if it makes you feel better that this fight is a stomp in favor of Bern then I would accept it. Don't consider me a fanboy please.Orion'sBow said:
I'm just saying that Lucifer is not going to have a good time fighting her in the matters of force. Battler is not Nigh-Omniscient but he hurt her. If this is a stomp because she can plot control Lucifer then GG ("good game" according to the DOTA 2 standards) in favor of Bern.
- 28
- 0
Bernkastel clearly win this fight
- 13,725
- 3,670
Necro
- Status
