Lucifer Morningstar vs Lady Bernkastel

[DarkLK]

Absolute Will or Absolute Inevitability.

Their concepts are mainly opposed to each other, so I decided to create this topic.

If the relation of powers is difficult to determine, then we can simply compare their abilities and concepts, assuming that them acting at the same level.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You sly bastard.

Anyway, from the perspective of an actual fight, I don't see a clear victor. Lucifer may have an edge in raw power, but Bern makes up for that in the sheer versatility of her powers. The Blue Truth and the magic of Miracles allow her a ridiculous amount of options, though I don't think the Blue Truth could totally deny Lucifer due to his relation to Death and the seeming immunity he has to its inevitability. That said, Bern isn't really in danger either, as she can always return from the Sea of Oblivion, and I am doubtful Lucifer could damage her in due to its nature. Because of this, I am seeing more of a stalemate. Taking Bern's BFR into account, that could be useful, though I recall Lucifer not having much of an issue returning from such things, even on such a drastic scale.

In terms of only judging powers, Bern's always seemed better in the sense of versatility and just how esoteric some are, but I am going more by effectiveness than pure strength.

Concepts...I'd have to think on.

 

[DarkLK]

Concepts...I'd have to think on.

Let me remind you that Bern's concept is something like this. The inevitability of something either independently of the will and the possibilities.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Don't know if this helps but Lucifer can be BFRed for a while

 

[Extreme123dz]

BFRis non-existence from Bern, even if you kill her, she will regenerate, why? is Equal to Lambdadelta, Same Lambdadelta that are Killed by Featherine and she still alive and can regenerate.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Lucy

 

[ProspectX]

Agree with azathoth here, both concepts are almost at the point where differences between these two are almost indistinguishable. Lady Bernkastel has the sea of oblivion in her favor, lucifer has pracitially no definitive way of making her "go away." Lucifer Morningstar has true-godly regen on his side, but that's not useful against the caliber of Lady Bernkastel. Magic of miracles would likely give Lady Bernkastel a higher versatility.

 

[DarkLK]

Lambdadelta that are Killed by Featherine and she still alive and can regenerate.

Due to external forces. She could not have done it herself. You do not need to be Featherine to make it difficult for them to regain.

Willard could not independently regenerate his hand. Battler hardly regenerate after the red key execution.

They can in fact affect their transcendental essences and inhibit Regenerationn.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Lucifer also has some insane feats of durability and regen and reality warping. Like how she shattered infinity into infinite pieces, or no-sold being inflicted with infinite deaths at once, or created The Endless, the very concepts that make up existence, as a side-effect of shaping Michael's Dunamis into Creation.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I wish Bern was High 1-B, tho, so I could pit the best girl, Delirium of the Endless, against her.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Not sure who would win a fight... ( 1-A fights are allowed ? Not trying to have it closed, this is a great fight. But, if this is the case , this opens so many doors. )

I agree with Matthew on who has the more impressive abilities though.

 

[DarkLK]

I wish Bern was High 1-B, tho, so I could pit the best girl, Delirium of the Endless, against her.

Delirium? Death would be more logical, because Bern is also the God of Death. Eccentric Lambda is probably more suitable for battle with Delirium.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Make it a double team-up, them.

 

[DarkLK]

I wish Bern was High 1-B

1-A the Endless would be better...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I wish Bern was High 1-B

1-A the Endless would be better...

It would.

 

[ProspectX]

How's that applicable?

 

[DarkLK]

What is the problem?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

1-A the Endless would be better...

Actually Doctor fate once travelled to a plane where time, space and the concept of dimensionality itself was meaningless so...1-A Endless?

Also, maybe Bern because Lucifer has a history of becoming incapacitated once his physical vessel is badly damaged unlike Bernkastel.

 

[ProspectX]

That sounds like a outlier.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

.... What outlier ? They are only weaker than their mother , presence, elaine , Lucy, and Mike, all whom are 1-A in strength and are very far in tier in it. If this would be accepted, they would be baseline 1-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Mother Night is baseline 1-A.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The keyword i said is " IF " . And yes, i know Mother Night is on that level.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

It was not meant to be taken seriously. Something like this will not be accepted in a vs battle thread. It's best to focus on the actual battle for now.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

anyways.... Lucifer should be able to bypass her immortality due to being the far superior 1-A.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The difference in strength can be overcome if she wishes, either through simple evolution or merging with the void beyond the layers as part of her true, "boundless" nature.

So killing her would actually be to his detriment since weaker beings have existed whilst erased.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Actually Doctor fate once travelled to a plane where time, space and the concept of dimensionality itself was meaningless so...1-A Endless?

That wouldn't make the Endless 1-A, but it does confirm that DC has 1-A realms. Can I see the scan?

 

[ProspectX]

anyways.... Lucifer should be able to bypass her immortality due to being the far superior 1-A.

You do realize that this is a debate? Claiming that isn't enough.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Do you want me to explain how Lucy is vastly superior to an baseline 1-A ? Via being far above the Source? I thought that this was obvious enough. Bernkastel's true form can only regenerate if her true body within that area is still there. Her true bbody doesn't scale to ANY 1-A,, so it is baseline 1-A at most . If he can destroy the true body, Bernkastel is dead. And he has more than enough firepower to do it in an one-shot. Is that good enough ?

 

[ProspectX]

she can still return from the sea of nothingness, I don't see how her "true" body be in danger here.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Her true bbody doesn't scale to ANY 1-A,, so it is baseline 1-A at most .

This is actually not true. Every higher being goes to the sea of oblivion upon death.

The stronger characters maintain their influence.

The voyagers, like Bernkastel, curb-stomps these characters and their hax is such they can manipulate them even in base as shown when Bernkastel scooped up Battler when he was merging with the sea.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

^....I stand corrected.

 

[DarkLK]

The stronger characters maintain their influence.

The voyagers, like Bernkastel, curb-stomps these characters and their hax is such they can manipulate them even in base as shown when Bernkastel scooped up Battler when he was merging with the sea.

Also the Kittens of mere avatar of Bern was able to tear off Willard's hand. And he can not regenerate on his own. Although for Lambda there was no problem to restore Willard's hand or to regen her own body from most of Bern's attacks.

And I do not even know if we saw anything other than Bern's avatars in Umineko. Even Beatrice had so many avatars and manifestations that it's easy to get confused (especially when they start talking to each other).

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Lol yeah, I also remember the time Beatrice began to troll Battler with different versions of herself. Didn't even Beatrice lament she was one, yet many? I loved how they tied this to her many interpretations. It actually kind of reminds me of Shin Megami Tensei...

I think there's evidence the true Bern has never actually been seen considering, in the English translation at least, it was mentioned Battler (and every other "mundane" individual) have ever only managed to hit/fail to hit her shadow, so I pretty much just scale them to Lambda's feat of transcending the gameboard of the City of Books since they're supposed to be equal, though it's entirely possible they're more powerful.

 

[Sera_EX]

Bern summons the Leviathan and then it's '''game on'''.

 

[VenomElite]

The Leviathan is no joke.

 

[DarkLK]

TheMightyRegulator ð┐ð©Ðüð░ð╗:
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It's more like Yasu than Beatrice. Even without Yasu there is very easy to get confused with her avatar and manifestations. In episode 5 there was a piece Beatrice (with some higher versions) that recalled previous games, but did not even know about Yasu.

True Bern (or at least the highest known one) is probably the one who wrote a letter to Featherine in Tsubasa. It does not look like it was the same Bern who met Featherine in episode 6. Also, here it does not look like she's the same Bern who plays the role of the main villain in this story. They both just decided to bring this story to the end. Their own versions within this story are also probably inferior to them.

Oh, I'm sure there are the main forms of Voyagers!

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Wait... Am I missing something ? Should Leviathan be much weaker than Lucy ?

 

[AndrewBennet]

Death is 1A she predates the Darkness itself only leaving the white void .

 

[TheSandman31]

if someones interested heres an interview with Holly Black [1]

 

[Sera_EX]

Wait... Am I missing something ? Should Leviathan be much weaker than Lucy ?

Wild Cats can manifest at the same level of their master. The ones Eva-Beatrice slaughtered weren't..."full power" kitties.