The Presence(Yahweh) Upgrade

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Hello people in today’s revision we need to look over Black Label Vertigo characters.

Specifically; Yahweh, Lucifer, and Michael. I will go over Lucifer as Michael another time.

The Presence/Yahweh

Lucifer Morningstar

Michael Demiurgos

Yahweh:

To start it off let’s talk about Yahweh.

To first start, Yahweh is Infinite and Eternal.

True, I’m Infinite and Eternal.

Infinite and Eternal
(Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

This is the notion when everything in Creation is shaped by his Will. All variables of laws, psychics, logic, and understanding was shaped by him. All things exist simply because he let it happen.

Any decision I make will be ab aeterno—from the beginning of Time.

Nothing will die because nothing will have ever been.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

After all, I’ve defined my own will every variable—every physical law, everything happens because I make it happen.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

This has been since the beginning of Time when Yahweh played this through many times. Everything in Creation including his sons has been predestined and map out.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #39)

Each part of reality even down to the smallest variable was designed by him and each level of reality was shaped by his Will. Every little ounce of detail no matter how small or big was made by his Will.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #40)

We get the idea Yahweh is just a name but of an aspect that is bigger relating back to the idea of “The Creator” who's is paradoxical that his body and mind is the Void.

As referring to himself as Infinite and Eternal, when earlier in the same issue, The Void was described as such:

But since the Void is Infinite and Eternal--The portion of it can be filled amounts, in the end, to zero.

Void
(Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

This is emphasized with the story of the Monkey and Buddha as a response to the idea you cannot be your own maker. No matter where Lucifer goes Yahweh will be there because he had always existed, this time without shape and not of the name “Yahweh” sometimes Lucifer even doesn’t know of his Father’s true nature.

Buddha and the Monkey King
(Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

This also is evident because even if Lucifer escapes he can never truly be free as he desires. Yahweh is the one holding the keys only if he allows Lucifer to go free is when Lucifer can be finally free.

Aye, well. There’s the rub. His influence extends through everything. There’s nowhere I can go where I won’t meet him.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #50)

Yahweh can unmake his sons at Will. Michael being his Power in form and Lucifer his Will incarnate and despite being his Power and Will he still is their power source. So even Lucifer and Michael are still iniftiely inferior 1-A to another 1-A wouldn’t make sense on the scale here.

I am your maker. I can u make you just as easily.

Maker
(Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Since all beings in the Universe, even Michael and Lucifer are just his image he plays out. They are just what Yahweh wants not need.

So my father has abandoned us to our far. And by doing so, has doomed us. Still, we are what he made us, Uriel. His own most perfect echoes. His own most persistent afterimages.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #51)

The only difference between Lucifer and Michael compared to the others are they are so much more powerful than even the entire Heavenly Host.

Michael, please. Think of what you’re doing. The entire Host will rally to this place. You will condemn them to Death, because while they are alive they will defend the Throne and The Presence

I have no wish to kill any of you, Uriel. But I inend to speak with my father. We will both us do what we must

Even Uriel doesn’t seem concerned for Michael as he is the Demiurge but more so for the sake of all Creation.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #40)

Do you really need to pursue these formalities to the point where I kill you? Isn’t there one of you know how to think?

(Lucifer Vol.1 #43)

Yet this is ever the case because Yahweh favors and only cares for his two sons above everything else.

It is as if he is obsessed. As if he cannot even see the rest of what he has made. Nothing is real except for Lucifer and Michael.

Yahweh
(Lucifer Vol.1 #31)

In the end, he doesn’t need the two to accomplish what he seeks. As he has already played these scheme thousand of times over.

First of all, my sons, you should know this. That I did not need you.

The first flower of light could have been born without a seed. I had played it through a thousand times. I knew its growth and decay to a nicety.

And there was no need for a weaver to spin the light into suns. It was pregnant already with the form. Which it would become.

But I had to teach you your skills. And there was no other school.

Lucifer and Michael
(Lucifer Vol.1 #39)

Even anything Lucifer makes is still Yahweh's extension because his the maker and the source of power used is his father.

He's your Creator, brother. The rules are his, not yours and by the same token, what you make is also his. I’m sorry.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #20)

When Yahweh left Creation his departure was felt through everything even in the cosmic scheme of things. As he is order and balance which alike is impossible without him. He is the God of Creation for a reason.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #41)

It is his name written in all the atoms of Creation and each level was slowly dissoluting. Creation of Yahweh cannot exist without his light and name.

No. But the letters of my father’s name are all that hold the gate open. Now he’s gone. And yesterday the letters began to fade.

To—fade?

With the results you see. I doubt the gate will last more than a few days. A week at most.

So your realm will be separated from True Creation. Is this your crisis?

I don’t have a crisis. I’m telling you this as a simple courtesy. Yahweh's name is written in every atom of his Creation. It’s the glue that holds reality together and when it’s gone—you will be too. Along with everything that lives here.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #49)

As we know everything will degrade at every level. Even the tiniest of details such as sweet, sour, creativity, emotion,etc... To the abstract concept like space, time, logic, soul, divine, etc...

It is Yahweh's name written in all of us. With Yahweh gone, it fades. And we fade too, by inexorable logic.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #56)

So much so that even Lucifer's powers were bleeding away. Yahweh Light is the nourishment all things need.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #65)

Lucifer may be his light bringer but only because he did when God told it to shine.

—-And Samael—my sweet, savage Samael, who brings the light where I have told it to shine—

Samael
(Lucifer Vol.1 #39)

When facing those who control his Light as Geyes and Games usurped his image and took his place. Lucifer can longer do them no harm because the power he has was his father this when facing him becomes useless.

We have stepped into your father’s space, Morningstar. And your father is the light you shine by. You have no power against us.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #42)

Since Yahweh is the ultimate authority in Creation. Lucifer even listens to him during the first Big Bang.

None of this was of my choosing.

No? That’s not the way I see it.

You and Michael were his first big idea. You came pretty much undiluted.

“Here,” he says. I want a Universe. Run one up for me.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

This happened long ago when he empower 1-A beings who also deserve to be High 1-A. When in the beginning split his power into two, the Demiurgic Power of Creation and The Lightbringer Will of God.

When God made the world, the first thing he created was the Host of Heaven. Beginning with your father, Michael—-and Lucifer

For everything else that was made, they were his intermediaries.

Michael’s Demiurgic Power gave birth to the first matter and Lucifer’s Will shaped it into suns.

Creation of Lucifer and Michael
(Lucifer Vol.1 #26)


The scale of this two character are so large, that when Lucifer killed Michael, it created the Cosmos from nothing which is something only God and the Demiurge could do. Make a cosmos where it’s light never touches end.

Michael’s death and rebirth released that power, in an explosion so vast its like had only been seen once before.

Demiurgic Power

(Lucifer Vol.1 #21)

These beings can casually toy with primal and platonic concepts because they impose the rules and logic that make those concept work.

Time and Space are extensions of the Mind. The Will. Which means that infinity is a purely local phenomenon

Divine Will
(Lucifer Vol.1 #20)

Michael literally Infinite Power.

Michael Demiurgos--Spark that expands forever--Ocean of power with no sore

Michael
(Lucifer Vol.1 #39)

Able to renew all of existence level to level since the beginning of Time. Something only God could do and only Michael could because God choose him as his Demiurge and his second.

Examine your own substance. Or that of anything you see—stars, stones, water, air—Look close enough and you will see Michael’s Will working there.

That us impossible! What you suggest, only God can do

He is the Demiurge. God chose him as his second.

Now, as God’s mark fades and Creation falters, Michael renews it moment by moment.

He writes God’s name afresh on every atom of existence. Incredible by this sacrifice, he --

Call it what you will, Uriel.

The Wolf is at the door and it’s not going to work.

Creation feat
(Lucifer Vol.1 #53)

With the vessel as Divine Power when not with creative possibilities of creating Infinite Structure it can destroy Infinite Structure.

God has vested in you The Demiurgic Power. The word of fire that builds and breaks. You could have ended the war right then, ended all of us with a gesture.

Power of God
(Lucifer Vol.1 #11)

There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demiurgos. God’s Power. When I die, it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.

Dunamis Demiurgos
(Lucifer Vol.1 #54)

Reflect a moment, Michael is a vessel for the Divine Power. If he dies—if that vessel cracks—the worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left.

Destruction
(Lucifer Vol.1 #13)

When becoming Yahweh, you are death less because the nature of God is eternal.

Take heart, brother, now that we are God — Death can have no — hold over us.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #43)

Not to mention in Creation sent and gave Dream the power to oversee all that does not exist.

Are you, then, the Lord of Sleep, the Prince of Stories, he to whom Allah has given dominion over that which is not, and shall never be?

Dream
(Sandman Vol.2 #50)

Also, a being that Creation is needed for. Even the Endless are side effects of Yahweh's experminting with the idea of Predestination and Creation making. This is highlighted when Lucifer admits they only exist because Yahweh wanted to test things out.

It’s really nothing personal. I find you offensive as a concept.
Even though I know you’re really just a side effect.
Indeed? Of what?
Of my father. Or rather, his deterministic approach to the act of Creation

(Lucifer Vol.1 #52)

Yahweh's power is that of Creation itself. To learn such power Elaine had to know this through the form of art. This form of art was called the “Yahweh Dance” to help with the rope of Creation something he taught Michael and Lucifer long ago.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

With Godhood, you are expressed as everything and everyone.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

wrote an even better explanation of the relationship between Yahweh and his other forms.

Yahweh Powers

In all matter, Yahweh's only difference from his other forms are is just shaped by human perception and it doesn't degrade his powers

Do remember the Presence is how his seen.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #27)

Yahweh - High 1-A

Lucifer - High 1-A, I will go over in another thread soon

Michael - High 1-A, I will go over in another thread soon

Endless(Older 3) - 1-A possibly High 1-A, This one will be long if I need to

Mother Night and Father Time - 1-A likey High 1-A, Scales above Endless

Glory of the First Circle - 1-A possibly High 1-A, Scales relative or above Endless

Jin En Mok - 1-A possibly High 1-A, Scales relative to the Endless

Gabriel Hornblower - 1-A likely High 1-A, Scales to his brothers

Basanos - 1-A possibly High 1-A, unsure about this one.

Yahweh in powers is equal to

Doctor Fate Vol.2 - The Smile beyond Mahaparalya

Spectre Vol.4 - Divine Presence, Void beyond all Voids

Justice League Dark Vol.1 - The Creator, The dreamer of all things.

Final Crisis Vol.1 - The Monitor-Mind Overvoid, the Canvas in which stories are played out.

Death Metal Vol.1 - The Source of All things, a bit controversial but nonetheless the Source for everything.

FYI I had to delete most of the scenes because I can’t post more than 20 pictures. So if it looks out of context please don’t blame me

 

[Beyond_transcending]

I am not sure how this is High-1A or even 1-A.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Consider using a Lil easier format for content revision… I can't follow up on the reasoning at all.

FYI I had to delete most of the scenes because I can’t post more than 20 pictures. So if it looks out of context please don’t blame me

Use Imgur next time.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I am not sure how this is High-1A or even 1-A.

Based on how DC is structured. This is easily High 1-A as he easily exist above structure equating to Berekely or even Reinhardt Cardinals.

Even if you don’t use Large Axiom Theory you can always go with the infinite route.
How big is the DC Universe

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Consider using a Lil easier format for content revision… I can't follow up on the reasoning at all.


Use Imgur next time.

What more concise evidence do you need? With all due respect, he qualifies in many areas above each infinite layer of Creation.

In base terms much above multiple alephs and this is the lower end as we can extend to much larger Cardinals to at-least equate him near 0=1

DCverse isn’t the biggest but it deserves more credit. Yahweh easily is at the top, the only thing that distinguishes him from the Divine Presence is that his “shape” specially is shaped by humans.

Mike Carey writes him as literally the Void when his not just “God of Covenant” or “Elohim of Israeli.”
His much above Lucifer and Michael who are above everyone else. At the least give them possible High 1-A but Yahweh is more than High 1-A

 

[ImmortalDread]

What more concise do you need? With all due respect, he qualifies in many areas above each infinite layer of Creation.

In base terms much above multiple alephs and this is the lower end as we can extend to much larger Cardinals to at-least equate him near 0=1

DCverse isn’t the biggest but it deserves more credit. Yahweh easily is at the top, the only thing that distinguishes him from the Divine Presence is that his “shape” specially is shaped by humans.

Mike Carey writes him as literally the Void when his not just “God of Covenant” or “Elohim of Israeli”

Dang, I am talking about the thread formatting, lmfao.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Dang, I am talking about the thread formatting, lmfao.

I fix the issues with every image was replaced with URL links besides the one already there. I hope you enjoyed the read.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Bump

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

@Antvasima
Need a review on this

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Antvasima
Need a review on this

Dang, chill. You just created CRT yesterday. No need to rush stuff, besides, I heard he is on vacation. So need to ping him.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Dang, chill. You just created CRT yesterday. No need to rush stuff, besides, I heard he is on vacation. So need to ping him.

This is only to inform him. Since he is on vacation, I don’t want to rush him. As for one I didn’t know for certain and two I’m not trying to rush.
So no need for this, that was just something I was meant to do and forgot to do. Took time and effort to make and I’m not senile so I don’t need this as a reminder.

 

[Firestorm808]

Please provide sources for the scans.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Please provide sources for the scans.

1. Lucifer Vol.1 #75: Evening Song
2. Next two images. Lucifer Vol.1 #68 and #69
3. Lucifer Vol.1 #39
4. Lucifer Vol.1 #40
5. Next two images. Lucifer Vol.1 #75: Evening Song
6. Lucifer Vol.1 #50
7. Lucifer Vol.1 #51: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 1 of 4
8. Lucifer Vol.1 #50
9. Lucifer Vol.1 43: Brothers in Arm Part 2 of 3
10. Lucifer Vol.1 #31
11. Lucifer Vol. 1 #39
12. Lucifer Vol.1 #20
13. Lucifer Vol.1 #41
14. Lucifer Vol.1 #49
15. Lucifer Vol.1 #56
16. Lucifer Vol.1 #65
17. Lucifer Vol.1 #39
18. Lucifer Vol.1 #42: Brothers In Arm Part 1 of 3
19. Next two images. Lucifer Vol.1 #26: Purgatorio Part 2 of 3
20. Lucifer Vol.1 #21
21. Lucifer Vol.1 #20
22. Lucifer Vol.1 #39
23. Lucifer Vol.1 #53: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 3 of 4
24. Lucifer Vol.1 #11: Children and Monster Part 2 of 4
25. Lucifer Vol.1 #54: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 4 of 4
26. Lucifer Vol.1 #13: Children and Monster Part 4 of 4
27. Lucifer Vol.1 #43: Brothers in Arm Part 2 of 3
28. The Sandman Vol.2 #50
29. Lucifer Vol.1 #52: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 2 of 3
30. Lucifer Vol.1 #68: Yahweh Dance
31. Lucifer Vol.1 #69
32. Lucifer Vol.1 #27

 

[Firestorm808]

1. Lucifer Vol.1 #75: Evening Song
2. Next two images. Lucifer Vol.1 #68 and #69
3. Lucifer Vol.1 #39
4. Lucifer Vol.1 #40
5. Next two images. Lucifer Vol.1 #75: Evening Song
6. Lucifer Vol.1 #50
7. Lucifer Vol.1 #51: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 1 of 4
8. Lucifer Vol.1 #50
9. Lucifer Vol.1 43: Brothers in Arm Part 2 of 3
10. Lucifer Vol.1 #31
11. Lucifer Vol. 1 #39
12. Lucifer Vol.1 #20
13. Lucifer Vol.1 #41
14. Lucifer Vol.1 #49
15. Lucifer Vol.1 #56
16. Lucifer Vol.1 #65
17. Lucifer Vol.1 #39
18. Lucifer Vol.1 #42: Brothers In Arm Part 1 of 3
19. Next two images. Lucifer Vol.1 #26: Purgatorio Part 2 of 3
20. Lucifer Vol.1 #21
21. Lucifer Vol.1 #20
22. Lucifer Vol.1 #39
23. Lucifer Vol.1 #53: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 3 of 4
24. Lucifer Vol.1 #11: Children and Monster Part 2 of 4
25. Lucifer Vol.1 #54: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 4 of 4
26. Lucifer Vol.1 #13: Children and Monster Part 4 of 4
27. Lucifer Vol.1 #43: Brothers in Arm Part 2 of 3
28. The Sandman Vol.2 #50
29. Lucifer Vol.1 #52: Wolf beneath the Tree Part 2 of 3
30. Lucifer Vol.1 #68: Yahweh Dance
31. Lucifer Vol.1 #69
32. Lucifer Vol.1 #27

Please label the respective images with the sources.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Please label the respective images with the sources.

There in order.
Everything is according to the threads. And if I say the next two images it just mean the next two scan I mention. Other than that it’s all in order.

 

[ImmortalDread]

There in order.
Everything is according to the threads. And if I say the next two images it just mean the next two scan I mention. Other than that it’s all in order.

The thing is (I am not offending you in any way, but rather giving you tips so that you can gain the audience's attention)
If you put all these pictures in Imgur and the Imgur title is their source, and you use it in your explanation like this (Exp: source #1: Lucifer Vol.1 #75: Evening Song)

It would be easier for everyone to follow you since you know your thread is incredibly long, and the pictures are so wide to follow.

I don't intend to derail either to interrupt you, but it is just my advice for you.

 

[Timeless]

Gonna need more input but that's inevitable. interested into where this goes

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

The thing is (I am not offending you in any way, but rather giving you tips so that you can gain the audience's attention)
If you put all these pictures in Imgur and the Imgur title is their source, and you use it in your explanation like this (Exp: source #1: Lucifer Vol.1 #75: Evening Song)

It would be easier for everyone to follow you since you know your thread is incredibly long, and the pictures are so wide to follow.

I don't intend to derail either to interrupt you, but it is just my advice for you.

I understand and funny thing is that’s the wrong scan.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I understand and funny thing is that’s the wrong scan.

You said everything is in order, and your first picture is your first source. Btw, "exp" means example, so I did it just to explain you.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

You said everything is in order, and your first picture is your first source. Btw, "exp" means example, so I did it just to explain you.

It goes as such as the link are also scans. Meaning it goes in order from reference point based on the quotes and with the citation I just listed.

 

[Firestorm808]

Please revise your OP to label each statement/scan accordingly. We do not want users jumping back and forth and recounting what image/statement they were on.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Please revise your OP to label each statement/scan accordingly. We do not want users jumping back and forth and recounting what image/statement they were on.

It has been fixed

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Bump

 

[Transcending]

@Antvasima
Need a review on this

Also normal members can't ping staff

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Also normal members can't ping staff

Some may say I’m special.

 

[Orioreeem]

Some may say I’m special.

You can ping them but they won't get notification, if stuff pings you you get notification. You will need to write on his wall to get him to check this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

@Deagonx @Sandman31 @LuciferDC099 @Firestorm808

Does this seem sufficiently well-considered to argue about, or should we close this thread?

 

[Deagonx]

Does this seem sufficiently well-considered to argue about, or should we close this thread?

Unfortunately it is entirely unclear on what the reasoning is for the upgrade. A lot of users seem to do this, they dump a ton of scans without contextualizing any of the information they're providing in reference to their desired upgrade, and the tiering criteria of the wiki.

He has a bunch of scans, sure, but I don't know what he's trying to say or why, so I can't really assess it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Unfortunately it is entirely unclear on what the reasoning is for the upgrade. A lot of users seem to do this, they dump a ton of scans without contextualizing any of the information they're providing in reference to their desired upgrade, and the tiering criteria of the wiki.

He has a bunch of scans, sure, but I don't know what he's trying to say or why, so I can't really assess it.

Ngl, kinda pointless if no one is actually doing the whole cosmology once again.

It makes nigh-impossible to do any CRT regarding the verse if nothing is changed from the main source, which is the cosmology itself.
And if you ask me honestly, if the verse is not fixed properly, I don't see any meaning for its existence at all.

I know, that my post is irrelevant to the thread topic, but want to bring it to your attention.

 

[Deagonx]

Ngl, kinda pointless if no one is actually doing the whole cosmology once again.

It makes nigh-impossible to do any CRT regarding the verse if nothing is changed from the main source, which is the cosmology itself.
And if you ask me honestly, if the verse is not fixed properly, I don't see any meaning for its existence at all.

I know, that my post is irrelevant to the thread topic, but want to bring it to your attention.

The cosmology itself is being worked on.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The cosmology itself is being worked on.

I prefer to make it a staff discussion or a place where it gets more attention, tho since this project is one of the most significant and enormous in the wiki.
Otherwise, I see pointless where people make CRTs and in the end, get rejected due to the main source being inconsistent.
I suggest a discussion rule for not creating any CRTs unless the cosmology is finished.

 

[Deagonx]

I prefer to make it a staff discussion or a place where it gets more attention

It will once the project is complete.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Unfortunately it is entirely unclear on what the reasoning is for the upgrade. A lot of users seem to do this, they dump a ton of scans without contextualizing any of the information they're providing in reference to their desired upgrade, and the tiering criteria of the wiki.

He has a bunch of scans, sure, but I don't know what he's trying to say or why, so I can't really assess it.

Ignoring the subtleness of the content revision. The easiest most simplecest of saying Yahweh is transcendent of being that are above each cardinal point in Creation. Viewing that same logic in R>F to lower demonstrator and Yahweh being at the absolute top views Creation as an absolute Infinite as something. If we based off of Aelph Scaling then we already get Aelph-2 with smaller sections till Null or Omega each until we reach inaccessible larger cardinal axiom. I admit DC doesn't really define this but with Vertigo we see them toy with concept of infinity even Will that transcends each stacking.

 

[Antvasima]

The cosmology itself is being worked on.

It will once the project is complete.

Yes, we have almost finished, but are currently working on the professionalism of the writing structure and presentation of our evidence and arguments, so there are no offhanded dismissals or avoidable misunderstandings due to this issue.

 

[Antvasima]

And if you ask me honestly, if the verse is not fixed properly, I don't see any meaning for its existence at all.

Marvel Comics and DC Comics are indeed technically far too inconsistent to function in a power-scaling environment that is based on coherent patterns, but they are too large and popular to just delete from our wiki; and other, far less meticulous and matter-of-fact analytical, wikis would also lay sole global claim to listing their preferred character statistics instead. As such, we have to try our best to find coherent patterns in the complete chaos, despite how extremely hard this is to do.

 

[Tarang123]

Ignoring the subtleness of the content revision. The easiest most simplecest of saying Yahweh is transcendent of being that are above each cardinal point in Creation. Viewing that same logic in R>F to lower demonstrator and Yahweh being at the absolute top views Creation as an absolute Infinite as something. If we based off of Aelph Scaling then we already get Aelph-2 with smaller sections till Null or Omega each until we reach inaccessible larger cardinal axiom. I admit DC doesn't really define this but with Vertigo we see them toy with concept of infinity even Will that transcends each stacking.

Vertigo, or DC for that matter, doesn't really handle the whole maths thing very deeply. They have a few lines, but nothing that would get a concrete tier.

 

[Tarang123]

I personally disagree with the OP. I don't agree with the conclusions arrived, and I don't think High 1A is warranted

 

[Transcending]

I personally disagree with the OP. I don't agree with the conclusions arrived, and I don't think High 1A is warranted

My thoughts are the same as this

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I personally disagree with the OP. I don't agree with the conclusions arrived, and I don't think High 1A is warranted

Before the revision, it can help. After the revision yes this thread could be invalid.