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LoZ Top Tier Revisions
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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We're not taking about inflation, though?
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We're using the supposed distance between the star and the planet to say that this is a 4-B feat. I'm saying that making a star and a planet far away from each other is just indicative of range and doesn't actually suggest the feat is 4-B even if we were to take it as high as we logically could.
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Were not talking about inflation. We are talking about creating a dimension. Creation of space-time. Which is determined by the size of the created structure.
In this case, High 4-C at a minimum.
In this case, High 4-C at a minimum.
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Yes, because you could easily fill that space with stuff.
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If you can create a space that large, what's stopping you from putting things in it?
Also I highly doubt any series would do something like that.
Also I highly doubt any series would do something like that.
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If said room had a set of space-time separate from our own, you would be City Block level.
And not everything needs to be scientific, Xcano, that's one of the most problematic assumptions you usually makes.
And not everything needs to be scientific, Xcano, that's one of the most problematic assumptions you usually makes.
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"And not everything needs to be scientific, Xcano, that's one of the most problematic assumptions you usually makes."
This makes my argument even easier. The feat isn't 4-B, it was just caused by random hax magic and there's no evidence that it's a real sized star or planet or even that physics works the same way in this universe.
As for the rest, making a large area of space is just spatial manipulation, not AP.
This makes my argument even easier. The feat isn't 4-B, it was just caused by random hax magic and there's no evidence that it's a real sized star or planet or even that physics works the same way in this universe.
As for the rest, making a large area of space is just spatial manipulation, not AP.
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That's not science, it's basic logic,.
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It's basic logic, Xcano. Now you are just deliberatedly making a dishonest argument to downgrade the characters.
You are the one who has to prove that the planet and the star are not real and that the physics are different. The standard assumption is that it is.
Also, "random hax magic". Energy is energy, be it magical or scientific.
And it's not Spatial Manipulation if you create space-time, it does translate to AP.
You are the one who has to prove that the planet and the star are not real and that the physics are different. The standard assumption is that it is.
Also, "random hax magic". Energy is energy, be it magical or scientific.
And it's not Spatial Manipulation if you create space-time, it does translate to AP.
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Okay, I can get some of the points you're making but questioning if it's a real star let alone the physics makes no sense, if it looks like a star, acts liked a star and filler to finish the saying, its probably a star and occam's razer suggest it's a star opposed to some miniature sun that's unsupported.
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@TheJ-ManRequiem Yeah, I know. I'm sure it is a real star. I'm just saying that you either support using science to determine the scale of the feat or you don't and it's unquantifiable. You can't just say that calcs are wholly valid right up until the point where they don't support your point anymore.
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@Xcano
It's not arbitray. It's about blatant standard logic, here. Creating a dimension doesn't come out of inflation, it comes out of space-time creation which is not quantifiable by scientific means.
Once again, please don't strawman me. I would rather keep this civilized.
It's not arbitray. It's about blatant standard logic, here. Creating a dimension doesn't come out of inflation, it comes out of space-time creation which is not quantifiable by scientific means.
Once again, please don't strawman me. I would rather keep this civilized.
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Except that the inflation process of the Big Bang which took billions of years =/= A deity creating a dimension instantly with energy from their hand or something. Using the later is blatantly dishonest, and it's really not how we determine Dimension-Creation feats.
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I'm not talking about the initial inflation. And you're welcome to tell me that the energy of the initial inflation was Wall level.
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@Matt
Maybe not Wall level, but according to Harvard even enough energy to equal the mass of a pea would've been enough to start the initial inflation of the universe. That would only be about 8 kilotons using e=mc^2.
Maybe not Wall level, but according to Harvard even enough energy to equal the mass of a pea would've been enough to start the initial inflation of the universe. That would only be about 8 kilotons using e=mc^2.
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That's just to kickstart it. Per conservation of energy, everything that the universe is today was contained in a single place during the Big Bang. You can actually use the mass-energy of the entire observable universe for Big Bang feats.
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@Matt
"A remarkable consequence of this model is that, if even a pinpoint of space contained this primordial form of energy, then the pinpoint of space would expand extremely rapidly and would bring into existence more of the same kind of energy."
The energy produced afterwards is greater than the input energy. 8 kilotons in, the mass-energy of the entire universe out.
"A remarkable consequence of this model is that, if even a pinpoint of space contained this primordial form of energy, then the pinpoint of space would expand extremely rapidly and would bring into existence more of the same kind of energy."
The energy produced afterwards is greater than the input energy. 8 kilotons in, the mass-energy of the entire universe out.
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I'm pretty sure you're either lying or wrong in some significant way, TLT1 and others who know science thingies did say that the Big Bang contained all energy in the current universe.
Besides energy doesn't come out of nowhere, nor is it created, but rather transformed. And everything in the universe now existed in the Big Bang, just astronomically denser. Big Bang feats are equal to the entire mass-energy of the Observable universe.
Besides energy doesn't come out of nowhere, nor is it created, but rather transformed. And everything in the universe now existed in the Big Bang, just astronomically denser. Big Bang feats are equal to the entire mass-energy of the Observable universe.
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Energy does actually come from nowhere, that's how the universe came to be in the first place. I believe the actual term for energy that comes from nothing is vacuum energy. The existence of vacuum energy is believed to be what allows black holes to evaporate.
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Ok.
Good luck trying to find a verse that uses either to serve your point outside of Heavy Hard Sci-Fi that only people on SD.net like.
Good luck trying to find a verse that uses either to serve your point outside of Heavy Hard Sci-Fi that only people on SD.net like.
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By the way, your link doesn't show talk about energy coming out of nowhere either. It explictely mentions a process that generates it. And I was talking about energy within the universe, not out of vacuum.
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A vacuum is just an area without matter in it. The vast majority of the universe would be a vacuum.
The article says in the first paragraph that one of the contributions to vacuum energy is virtual particles that blink in and out of existence, they do actually come from what is essentially nothing.
The article says in the first paragraph that one of the contributions to vacuum energy is virtual particles that blink in and out of existence, they do actually come from what is essentially nothing.
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If I remember correctly, DontTalk developed the rule that creating pocket universes would count as reality-warping, and as such be rated according to their size (which in this case means High 4-C).
This is not a perfect method, but it is the most practically useful one, in lack of the feasability of providing advanced calculations for every single feat, and it is not practical to change our standards in this regard.
I would greatly appreciate if you could please stop trying to undermine or be subversive regarding the standards and practices of this wiki, that have worked quite well for us. Thank you.
This is not a perfect method, but it is the most practically useful one, in lack of the feasability of providing advanced calculations for every single feat, and it is not practical to change our standards in this regard.
I would greatly appreciate if you could please stop trying to undermine or be subversive regarding the standards and practices of this wiki, that have worked quite well for us. Thank you.
Dust_Collector
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So after looking though a text dump of ALTTP the best I got regarding the Sacred Realm/Dark World was this line:
"Surprisingly, the Triforce created this world to fulfill Ganon's wish. What is Ganon's wish, you ask? It is to rule the entire cosmos! Don't you think it might be possible with the power of the Triforce behind you?"
Unless I'm mistaken isn't cosmos often used as a fancier way of saying universe? Granted, this could very easily just be flowery language/hyperbole but I thought it was worth noting.
"Surprisingly, the Triforce created this world to fulfill Ganon's wish. What is Ganon's wish, you ask? It is to rule the entire cosmos! Don't you think it might be possible with the power of the Triforce behind you?"
Unless I'm mistaken isn't cosmos often used as a fancier way of saying universe? Granted, this could very easily just be flowery language/hyperbole but I thought it was worth noting.
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Cosmos literally means Universe. Granted, ruling the universe =/= being universal.
But it is another confirmation that Complete Triforce > Everything in the Verse sans Goddesses.
But it is another confirmation that Complete Triforce > Everything in the Verse sans Goddesses.
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It does however give credence to the size of the Sacred Realm/Dark World being universal though. And it's still stated that all of it was affected. Does anyone agree?
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I hate to say this, but this is the first time where I actually agree with Xcano's accessment on Solar System Level Zelda verse being absurdly ridiclously.
Especially when there is already several videos and debaters who have already validly pointed out that the Zelda verse does not go beyond Multi-Continent Level and it's based of nothing more then feats or statements taken out of context.
Especially when there is already several videos and debaters who have already validly pointed out that the Zelda verse does not go beyond Multi-Continent Level and it's based of nothing more then feats or statements taken out of context.
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