LoZ Top Tier Revisions

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Especially when there is already several videos and debaters who have already validly pointed out that the Zelda verse does not go beyond Island level and it's based of nothing more then feats or statements taken out of context.

What other people say in a video means nothing to what we do here.

 

[HeroicDefender97]

Especially when there is already several videos and debaters who have already validly pointed out that the Zelda verse does not go beyond Island level and it's based of nothing more then feats or statements taken out of context.

What other people say in a video means nothing to what we do here.

Still--- Solar System Level Zelda verse would be pushing it

(Btw you still haven't answered my question on your wall because KinkestSin told me to come you)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If it's legit then it isn't pushing it. If it isn't, then it's just not legit.

Also I don't remember a message, I'll check my wall.

 

[HeroicDefender97]

@Dragon

Okay then fair enough

{You should be able to find it since it's not buried that deep}

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Especially when there is already several videos and debaters who have already validly pointed out that the Zelda verse does not go beyond Island level and it's based of nothing more then feats or statements taken out of context.

That idea in itself is absurd. Let's just take Majora as an example character. If you want to ignore its pocket dimension feat entirely, you still have multiple statements of Majora's Mask destroying the world with the moon in the guide, Hyrule Historia, and game itself. Even if you were to ignore that, Majora wiping out what we can see of Termina alone (everything on the map) was calced at low-end Multi-Continent level. And even further ignoring that, comparatively fodder bosses such as Goht and Gyorg produced Island level and Large Island level effects respectively by simply being awakened and existing.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Surprisingly, the Triforce created this world to fulfill Ganon's wish. What is Ganon's wish, you ask? It is to rule the entire cosmos! Don't you think it might be possible with the power of the Triforce behind you?"

Is this the original dialogue, or something that only appears in one localization? Just need to be careful in cases like this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If legit, 3-A?

 

[PaChi2]

I skipped many of the comments, but why do you assume the universe is only Earth-Sun radius when in several games' night we have a lot of stars in the sky?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I skipped many of the comments, but why do you assume the universe is only Earth-Sun radius when in several games' night we have a lot of stars in the sky?

This is only referring to the Sacred Realm.

 

[PaChi2]

Oh, I thought the sacred realm was the same size as the normal universe because in A link between worlds/Alttp its just the same map as Hyrule.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If legit, 3-A?

Could I get confirmation on this, bro?

 

[Dust_Collector]

http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/text/z3translation/z3_game_quotes.html

I was looking though this comparison of translations regarding ALTTP and it unfortunately doesn't show what the original japanese text was for the "entire cosmos" quote. However there was this:

"If Ganon were to come to the World of Light, it might no longer be possible to catch him. But, if he's inside this bounded space, you can find him unfailingly no matter where he runs"

"Once Ganon enters the Light World, it is unlikely that anyone can stop him. But if he stays in the closed space of this world, you can find him wherever he runs."

The first quote is from the original japanese version and the second is the NoA translation. These seem to imply the Dark World is quite a bit smaller than the Light World.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Thought you guys didn't accept Zelda fan translations seeing as how they also say Demise didn't create where he fights you?(translation refers to it as the demon tribe's world)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mazoku means either demon tribe or demon king, the latter being used far more in recent media.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@DC, considering the minimal size of the realm is still larger than a planet, it's likely talking about the point that he's still sealed in there instead of being free.

@Azzy. Also, when did we start exclusively taking the Japanese text? We've taken all, even Spanish, since very recently, that randomly changed. I mean, take Mewtwo's storm feat, which is almost universally accepted by battle forums.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Saying that Zelda doesn't go beyond Island level is pretty suspect when Hyrule Warriors Link flips the Earth FF7 Typhon style in one of his attacks.

 

[HeroicDefender97]

Saying that Zelda doesn't go beyond Island level is pretty suspect when Hyrule Warriors Link flips the Earth FF7 Typhon style in one of his attacks.

But that calc where he flips a planet was already debunked and nothing more then a joke calc as Chaostheory said himself,

Unless he took back what he said about it.

{Oops meant to say beyond Multi-Continent Level, that was a mistake on my part}

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Heroic

He said it was a joke because he considered the feat an outlier. That was Pre Breath of the Wild, and before people started realizing all the Pocket Dimensions feats in the series.

Regardless, my point is that there's a visible Large Planet feat on the screen right there.

 

[Cropfist]

The planet flip is a camera angle effect.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ugh...that argument. People f***ing with the camera doesn't mean anything. It's like saying that a debug menu or a glitch can be used to debunk things. Heck, the same argument, albeit exaggerated, could be used like this:

Frieza's star level feat was just sped up for the audience. I could slow it down like it should be, and it'd just be planet+.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It isn't a camera angle effect. It's literally the ground spinning do to Link's strength.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You also linked a bugged version of the feat that doesn't show the proper animation, this is it.

https://youtu.be/g2MHy4RcAXo?t=318

 

[Cropfist]

Not that it matters, because Hyrule Warriors is non-canon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So what. We have a profile for Hyrule Warriors Link.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

He flips the planet but it magically stays daytime

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Cal

We didn't, but if one piece of dialogue suggests "this world is very small" and another suggests, "this is literally a universe". I need to make sure one isn't just a translation issue.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I see what you're getting at. The scene that DC is mentioning is a different instance altogether though, and contradictory with the fact that it's still planetary at the very least, making it bigger than the explorable Hyrule in the Light World, making that simply untrue in that version, unless we take the far more likely interpretation that the scene was talking about Ganon being sealed there.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"We can find Ganon on one world he isn't allowed to leave" is a lot more logical and easier than "We can find Ganon anywhere in the universe", which is what the quote seems to imply.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ganon has never shown universal, or even interplanetary travel though. Even as full universe, he's still confined to one planet.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If arguing for potentially universal Triforce and such, you may not want to argue that, as it nulls much of the debate due to the nature of the Triforce's wish granting.

Though I will say that one statement says Ganon wants to use the Triforce to rule the cosmos, and the other says it's easier to get him in the Dark World because it's confined.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I see what you mean.

However, that in itself, the confinement in the Dark World, makes no sense as you see him in the Light World as Aganhim.

Also, you could compare the Dark World to the Null Void in Ben 10. It's a prison, hence confinement. Plus, we never see him outside the Pyramid of Power.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

I'm still sticking with universal Triforce.

Just to make sure I'm on the same page as everyone else, is there a problem with Ganon being stuck in the Dark World or something? And is there a reason Ganon would want or need to fly to other planets?

 

[Dust_Collector]

The problem isn't so much that he's stuck in the Dark World, but rather that Zelda implies that the Dark World is smaller than the Light World. She says that as long as Ganon stays in the Dark World, Link will be able to find him no matter where he runs, but if Ganon escapes to the Light World there's a possibility that Link will never catch him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What's easier to stop:

A guy with complete access to two universes or a guy with complete assess to one?


Please forgive me if that comes off as mean. It's not my intent at all.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

>"Assess"

>I think you mean Access.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I do...

 

[LordXcano]

Why are people bringing up the planet flip when Hyrule Warriors isn't canon?

@Ant Why is reality warping treated as AP though? It's just hax with range.

Regardless, I've messaged DT for input.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, because creation feats would require the power to be spread out over the same volume as destruction feats, and because it is the most practical solution. Othervise we would have to search through all of our profiles to find any scaled from such feats, and in lack of available easy to use exact calculations, give most of them unknown statistics ratings.

On second thought, I am not sure who came up with the practice. DontTalk may have simply created the similar Celestial Body Feats standards. In addition, he has left the wiki, and is unlikely to respond.

However, again, it is not practically feasible to rate high level creation and destruction feats with different standards for manipulation of the same volume.

 

[LordXcano]

Well the solution to unknown stats is easy, just scale them off of what they create. A pocket dimension with a galaxy in it is galaxy level since they made a galaxy. A pocket dimension a thousand miles wide with nothing in it is just spatial manipulation/reality warping with really far range.

Also, yeah, I noticed that.