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Local Dorito attempts to terrorize local high school girl again

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I still have no idea why anyone keeps saying that Monika wouldn't go for existence erasure when she does right at the end of the game without trying anything else first. Monika wouldn't go for anything less than existence erasure in a battle to the death, she's not stupid, she's fairly pragmatic. Even if Monika has been weirded into a sofa, she's just going to open by erasing Bill; she has no reason to do anything else first. If Bill doesn't instantly go to mindhax Monika or something similar, he's basically already lost.
 
It's also important that Bill's mindhax is one step away from being passive. He simply needs to do something abnormal, as he ruined someone's mind by feeding himself.

Bill also probably passively brings Monika to the real world like he did Rumble, which ruins all of her powers.
 
ONE PEEK INTO MY DIMENSION AND THIS BUMPKIN LOST HIS WEAK LITTLE MIND

ALL HE SAW WAS ME REMOVING MY EXOSKELETON TO FEED

IF YOU CANT TAKE THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN JACK
 
That's still one step away. Also, if Bill prefers to torture his opponents instead of offing them immediately, it's likely that Monika would delete him before he could stop it. Again, if he doesn't immediately go to incapacitate her, she's going to delete him, and then she'll win.
 
I mean then Bill basically does a thing, and Monika gets mind broken. Cal has also pointed put why deletion may not work, and why she may not use it as fast as people claim.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
I mean then Bill basically does a thing, and Monika gets mind broken. Cal has also pointed put why deletion may not work, and why she may not use it as fast as people claim.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence that her deletion would not work on Bill. She has shown the ability to delete entire timelines, I'm not really sure how this part is debatable. And she would go for it instantly. Again, it's implied multiple times throughout the game that she didn't go for erasing her friends because she still cared about them to some extent (she even admits that she doesn't completely erase the club members for this reason), and at the end of the game she instantly erases Sayori when she realizes that she will be just as bad as her with the power of club president.
 
well duh, phil can just use sealing via flex seal, which has been shown to seal up A LOTTA DAMAGE, implied to be the full extent of phil's 1-C power. sealing some tier 2's would be child's play.
 
Wh does Bill actually start with? Because the way I see it, the fight goes like this:

1) Bill uses mind shenanigans, he can potentially take it.

2) Bill does something else that kills Monika, Monika does not exist anymore, and Bill gets erased. Or plot haxed. Or something else.
 
Yeah, but what does Bill actually start with? That would determine the outcome of the match.
 
That's the thing we don't know.

Bill can very easily break her mind but she could also erase and delete him. Both seem capable of doing it off the bat. Some would argue that we 99% think Monika leads with deletion, but other would suggest it's very much in character for Bill to mindscrew. So it's 50/50
 
Monika, in her end game mentality, simply erases everything period. I don't remember bill every trying to snipe something either, in which case he would need to attack a non-existent (she erases herself the moment she realizes she exists) 4kms away.


Secondly, Bill's precog is quite that good. Bill in a split second uses it on a whim to foresee the rest of the events of Season 1. Heck, Bill's precog is among the best I've seen. I mean, it's no Gilgamesh, Aztec Ahrimon, Omegamon, or Mega Alakazam, but it's so casual and so sudden that it serves such a good purpose. Dude perceives infinite timelines casually and simultaneously, after all. And he also says he has omnipotent sight (massive hyperbole, but still).

It also didn't allow him to predict many things that were pretty damn crucial to him. It hasn't been well explained within the series why he sees certain things and not others.

Tough he still tends to take a few seconds for that (unless my reaction time makes a split second seem much longer), and monika manages to erase herself and others near instantly by the end of the game.


See above. Heck, knowing that Monika has that sort of power would probably piss Bill off that a mere human has some godlike power, and he'd erase her on the spot.

That... wouldn't do him any good.


Also, lol at Bill underestimating someone based on how they look. His biggest rival is a giant baby and the one thing he fears (and is the supreme being of the verse) is a freaking Mexican walking fish

Has he been stated to fear it? I remember him openly hatin on it tough. Plus he is biased as far as humans go.

Monika's mindset for her using her erasure on a whim is because she realized that Yuri, Sayori, and Natsuki weren't real. If she were to fight someone who's actually existent, who knows what she'd do, let alone against something that's actually a god. She'd probably be a lot more hesitant, as she is still a high school girl with an existential crisis.

In character by the end she erases everything, even if you try to bring it back. Plus this:

The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.


Second, keep in mind that Monika's plot manipulation comes from manipulating a video game...

Yeahs, that is true, but her plot manipulation is barely combat aplicable, and she doesn't really use it.

Third, Monika is still a novice at her plot manipulation, and the people she erased have very simple codes to her. Bill, a demon with a pseudo-existence literally made up of mathematical probabilities the person who makes deals with his own creator isn't going to have such simple code of 1s and 0s.

Again, same as above. And deleting him should not take into acount how detailed he is.


Her plot manipulation is countered by his causality manipulation. How can she manipulate the plot correctly if the effect is preceding the cause, causing the script to be all over the place?

The script would break in such case like it did with yuri.


Ugh. This effing argument... Even Azzy agrees with me that this argument is BS (at least the part about Bill not using hax first). Bill's first on screen appearance is immediately, and I mean that with every sense of the word, stopping time.

Wasn't it clarified that he only puts people asleep and manipulates those, as he cannot hax the world in such form?


Every moment since, he used hax on everyone. I made a freaking list in a previous Bill versus thread. He jobbed the heck out of the rest of the Pines because he couldn't kill the twins if he wanted Ford to cooperate. And if got what he wanted, he would've killed them instantly. The thing with Time Baby, he stated loooong before he did it that he would disassemble his molecules if he got the chance, and that's exactly what he did.

Yes, I agree. He does use hax, but monika will almost certanly erase herself right away, so it depends on what he uses.


And let's not forget that Bill passively emits weirdness waves which could like, turn Monika into a sofa.

The waves would need to travel 4kms, so unlikely.


On the Monika end, recall that she took freaking forever to do things to her "friends", with it taking days, if not weeks for her to do it. And she only did her erasure due to her warped love for the player. She's far more likely to try to manipulate Bill's emotions, which would be ineffective at best and detrimental to her at worst.

What? She was emotionaly bonded with them, and it is clarified that she did care about them in her dialouge. After the ending, she just erases stuff, friends included.


Good thing Bill prefers to torture his opponents for eternity instead. Not to mention that she doesn't have Mid-Godly Regenerationn, but the ability to persist as a non-corporeal, nonexistent being, both of which Bill is able to mess with (due to being the former and half of the latter) and probably put down if need be, given that he killed his entire race with his dimension, who shouldn't have different physiology to him.


Him torturing her would just give her more time to erase everything. Plus isn't he only "non-corporeal" (he is lower dimensional) in his first form? Plus I'm pretty sure he didn't willingly kill them, as our dear god tier told us that he felt guilty about thze destruction of his world. Still, feels pretty what-if ish. His race is mostly unknown, exept that they have more genders that tumblr could hope to make.


I am not voting btw
 
Bill Cipher's Intelligence has been further revised for those who question it

Intelligence: Nigh-Omniscient (Is said to know "lots of things", such as the truth of many well-known conspiracies as well as future events, like the destruction of Gideon-bot and that Gideon Gleeful would go to prison. Bill is also able to look through the eye of anything that is made in his image, allowing him to know what occurs even when he isn't around. Is aware and can view infinite versions of himself in infinite timelines and knows of the past and future. Him not seeing his own defeat is likely PIS)


So, now, Bill doing something that could backfire or not smart like not using his best abilities is now nonsensical.
 
@Ricsi-viragosi, you reminded me that Bill's could also win Transmutation or Petrification against Monika since she got no resistance.


@Ricsi-viragosi, I will agree with your reasoning because it really provides more insight into the characters that I didn't see. Nice.
 
DMB 1 said:
Wh does Bill actually start with? Because the way I see it, the fight goes like this:
1) Bill uses mind shenanigans, he can potentially take it.

2) Bill does something else that kills Monika, Monika does not exist anymore, and Bill gets erased. Or plot haxed. Or something else.
Click to expand...
Bill's could also win by Transmutation, Petrification, and BFR against Monika since she got no resistance.

Bill can't get plot hax. Plot manipulation can be bypassed by Conceptual Manipulation which Bill has now. This thread stated it. It is just high-end reality Manipulation. It is likely bypassed by Causality Manipulation as it can make the plot meaningless
 
Did you ignore what I wrote above?

Has he ever transmutated something whiteout body?

And how does his bfr work?
 
@Ricsi-viragosi, Bill created Mabeland, where anything and everything its prisoner thought of or desired could be instantly achieved or granted, which is Pocket Reality Manipulation and BFR. He was also supposed to have it on his profile from an older thread. I, theory, would be a nice form of mind hax since the combatant might stop fighting.

Has he ever transmutated something whiteout body?

The transmutation and petrification's argument was meant to be Monika is alive. She got no resistances to them. Bill's intelligence is way higher so why wouldn't used it to also if he nigh-omniscient.
 
Bill created Mabeland which is Pocket Reality Manipulation and BFR. He was also supposed to have it on his profile from an older thread.

She would just erase that.


The transmutation and petrification's argument was meant to be Monika is alive

She automaticaly erases herself on tought
 
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