Link being a valid Composite or not

[Dienomite22]

"The your logic"

I don't get what you're trying to say there, word it better please.

I'm going to assume you're trying to say my logic(which is correlating to the definition so again, you're calling a definition baseless) is baseless, which I repeat what I said in my quote.

Your logic is baseless.

There, it's fixed.

But no, you are comparing composite Link to composite race profiles from tLoZ and calling Link a race or apart of a the Spirit of the Hero race to justify a composite profile for him. The logic is baseless and flawed. Don't be obtuse.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Someone repost what I put before

 

[Dienomite22]

If you wanna nuke comp. Link, fine. I won't put up a fight if you all decide it. I just think it's unfair to limit someone with 30 years of canon history to one or two games while other characters get everything and the kitchen sink. If you think say, Sora vs Link, you're not thinking "Oh, Sora's specifically fighting Minish Cap Link!" Meanwhile, you don't say "Scorpion is fighting SF2T Ryu!" Yes, I'm award of the obvious false equivalency but it's what I think. I'm not calling it a double standard or anything, because that's dumb. I'm just saying what I think on the matter, and that even with reincarnation on the table, other characters get their entire history while Link gets a tenth of his. Also, even the artwork for comp. Link on his profile is Nintendo's official take on a representation of all Links as one. And yeah I'm fully aware comp. Link only exists for battles, but we're still vs battles. We have the individual iterations for indexing, so that argument goes down the drain.

>instead of reposting his own post himself he reposts himself asking for someone to repost his post.

Come on cal.

 

[GrathOfLux]

This discussion seems to be delving away from the actual point.

Regardless of whether they all have the Spirit of the Hero, they are still separate people with different memories, experiences, starting moves, equipment, skills, and abilities. With how composite profiles work, we'd be assuming that Link has all of these all at the same time, which he never once does in any canonical situation. In which case, a composite profile is extremely questionable.

 

[The_Impress]

Again, this is me compositing every Ghost Rider because from a technical point of view, they're all vessels of Zarathos, or compositing all Spider-Folk from the Spider-Verse crossover since they're all harnessing the Spider Totems, the composite versions of these characters don't exist, even though they're technically the same people. I don't think we should make fanfic characters no matter how "supported" by canon they are

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

"The Spirit of the Hero is a force referenced within the Legend of Zelda series. Little is known about the exact nature of it, but it appears to be the essence of what makes each protagonist in the series Link."

Did you read this part?

...Yes, and?

Your argument ignores the fact while every Link may share that trait, they are unique individuals with their own experiences, feats and stories. You're treating Link like he's the Doctor from Doctor Who, who regenerates into a new incarnation but still remembers everything that came before.

You're assuming that every single incarnation of Link is the same with access to all the same powers and equipment when we know that's not true and such a thing has never happened.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Snip

I already showed the definition of race and how it works, you denying it doesn't suddenly change definition.

 

[Dienomite22]

I already showed the definition of race and how it works, you denying it doesn't suddenly change definition.

Do you have actual valid reasons for a composite Link profile being valid or are you going to continue behaving like this? If it's the latter then our conversation is done.

 

[The_Impress]

Guys, cool it with the hostility. We can legit turn this into a staff thread if you continue to behave like this

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah we can keep it civil. This ain't gonna spiral out of control if I can help it.

 

[HenryWong122]

I think Composite Link is kinda like Composite Human.

 

[The_Impress]

Composite Human is an absolutely special case in terms of wiki, and even that page is getting removed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There's a lot of debate about Composite Human staying though.

 

[The_Impress]

Yep, that has been concluded, CH is officially being removed now

 

[TriforcePower1]

About Composite Link, it is true that he shouldn't be a "composite" anymore and just be "Link". We should stop considering it as a "composite" of the different Links and consider him as just "The Spirit of the Hero" himself, which would lead to consequences like separating his Standard Equipment with his Optional one, or separation into keys. After all, all the Links are meant to be the same person, and the similarities are so big that people thought that OoT, MM, AlttP, LA, OoA, OoS, Zelda I, AoL and FS Link to be the same person till Wind Waker came and considered the events of OoT as a far off legend. Lastly, there is a reason why the Zelda official site and Hyrule Encyclopedia all have a single page for Link defining him as a single character, just as they do with Ganondorf, who IS literally always the same guy. He simply is a single character. Assuming he were not, that would mean that they grouped together different people as a single one, or, in other words, they "composited" him, legitimizing Composite Link.

I'm fine with stopping considering Composite Link a composite and starting to consider him like characters like Mario or Kirby.

 

[GrathOfLux]

That's not really the point here.

The fact that the similarities are big enough that people mistakenly thought that they were the same person for a long time is a non-sequitur; they still are different characters.

The fact that Link is listed as a single character on the Zelda official site is almost 100% due to them having the Spirit of the Hero. But again, this doesn't prove that he should be composited, since all of these depictions have completely different abilities, varying equipment, skill, experience, starting moves, hax, and the like. These are the things that matter, not if the characters have the same spirit.

This isn't comparable to characters like Mario, who are in a quite literal sense the exact same character in every single instalment. In plenty of depictions, Link is a different character in ways that would make them separate from his other depictions in a Vs Battles context.

This really isn't as complicated as it's being made out to be; Link, in each of his depictions, has different equipment, abilities, skills, and experiences. Each of these play into his viability in a Versus Match. At no point does Link have the equipment, abilities, skills and experiences of every depiction of Link beforehand. As such, at no point does Composite Link exist, and so he should not be allowed.

 

[TriforcePower1]

They aren't different characters, that's why people thought they were the same one. Link across all of his incarnations is identical because they are meant by Nintendo to be the same character like Mario, with the reincarnation thing being a gimmick they introduced to explain why Hyrule's geography changes or why the history repeats itself.

Yes it does. Nintendo composited him. That's the only important thing. They are considering all Links as a single character, so we should do the same, because they are the ones deciding canonicity, not us. Everything else is your speculation. Nintendo>speculations.


My version decided to yeet itself out of my phone, so take this in the meantime

 

[TriforcePower1]

At no point does Mario have the equipment, abilities, skills and experiences of every depiction of Mario beforehand. As such, at no point does composite Mario exist, and so he should not be allowed.

At no point does Kirby have the equipment, abilities, skills and experiences of every depiction of Kirby beforehand. As such, at no point does Composite Kirby exist, and so he should not be allowed.

At no point does any RPG protagonist with multiple titles have the equipment, abilities, skills and experiences of every depiction of said RPG protagonist beforehand. As such, at no point does RPG protagonist exist, and so he should not be allowed.

 

[GrathOfLux]

You say that official word > speculations, yet part of your argument is based on speculation that they only implemented the reincarnation as a gimmick when they have made the point clear that it is a canon part of the universe plenty of times.

And you're still not really understanding my point. Nintendo almost certainly only considers Link to be "a single character" because he has the same spirit. His depictions, 100%, are canonically different characters. Given that they are separate in abilities, equipment, etc (no need to restate all of them) there is never any point of time throughout the whole of the Legend of Zelda in which Link has everything he would have as a composite. As such, Composite Link doesn't exist in canon, and so isn't appropriate for this website.

Saying that he has only one file on the Zelda website, or that he has the spirit of the hero, or arguing that his reincarnation should just be considered "a gimmick", or anything along those lines is a massive non-sequitur. He is never once "Composite Link" in canon, they are all separate characters in ways that would change their viability in a Versus Match, and as such it wouldn't be appropriate to have him as a composite profile on an indexing wiki.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why is this so debated?

Doesn't the simple fact that the Link on this wiki literally doesn't exist (is completely made up by us adding all abilities he has never shown to have at the same time) make him composite by default?

From what i gather Link in canon can't use all the abilities and equipment he has because he simply doesn't have them in different reincarnations. What we have is a made up version of link who can use everything at once.

 

[Rocker1189]

Composite Link is not a real character. There is no Link that has all those abilities together regardless of the spirit of the hero thing.

And funnily enough I agree with Mario, Kirby and RPG protagonists that do that whoever they are. Fact is none of those characters ever use all those powers and equipment at once. But it's even worse for link because it's not like he does them all separately in 1 game.

 

[GrathOfLux]

Why is this so debated?

Doesn't the simple fact that the Link on this wiki literally doesn't exist (is completely made up by us adding all abilities he has never shown to have at the same time) make him composite by default?

From what i gather Link in canon can't use all the abilities and equipment he has because he simply doesn't have them in different reincarnations. What we have is a made up version of link who can use everything at once.

We have many different profiles for Link, most for his various depictions, and one that is explicitly a composite profile. This thread is arguing whether or not the composite profile should be allowed.

Quite frankly, it shouldn't be as heavily debated as it has been. Composite Link, as you mentioned, is a made up version of Link that can use everything and has every advantage of every depiction when this has never once happened in canon. He is made up.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah that's my point, if he is made up, and literally cannot exist in canon. Why do we even have him? His other forms being linked doesn't mean they can just get a free pass and use everything without being able to do so. Hell we don't even do that with characters like:

Kuudou Hinokage

He has 2 different abilities that he never had at the same time. And he's the same character, none of that reincarnation part. We still don't just give him both abilities to fight with. Composite Link should still go similar to other composites.

 

[GrathOfLux]

The main arguments for keeping him so far have been:

1: They all have the same spirit, and therefore should be treated as the same character

2: Nintendo officially composited Link by having him as a single entry on the official Zelda website

I've explained previously why I don't really agree with either of them.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Same spirit =/= same powers, equipment

They should be treated similarly to how Vergil (Devil May Cry) and Urizen (Devil May Cry). They are almost literally the same character, still not treated as a composite profile.


Composited Link in a website is for simplicty's sake, not to list like 20 forms of link. Doesn't mean we should do the same in versus battles. It's still "in a website" not "in a game" or "in a movie" or any other form of media that would make him having all abilities legit.

Just because Terraformar is treated as a single profile in there doesn't mean it's ok for us to have terraformar profiles in the wiki have literal dozens of abilities they cannot have at the same time. It being listed once is just simplicity.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Literally the only difference between characters like Mario and Link is that, whereas Mario only keeps his body and soul between different games, Link only keeps his soul, which is still enough for Nintendo to consider him a single character like Mario, hence why we should do the same. I'm okay with Composite Link going away and simply become "Link", the Spirit of the Hero. It's what Nintendo did and what we should do, too.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If said "Link spirit of the hero" will lack the "composite abilities, hax and equipment" that the current Composite Link has, then sure. If it's the same, then it doesn't solve a problem, it just changes his name.

 

[TriforcePower1]

He will be treated exactly like characters like Mario, who have keys separating different equipments, as well as more defined difference between "Standard" and "Optional" equipment

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So basically the current link won't exist in a sense and instead he'll just have a profile for all his appearances or forms?

 

[Rocker1189]

I am just going to say that Mario should not have all those things at the same time either, the way these characters are used on this wiki is a way they can never and have never behaved in any canon.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Mario also keeps his memories and experiences between different games while Link doesn't keep those things between reincarnations. Wind Waker Link doesn't retain the memories and knowledge of Skyward Sword or Ocarina of Time Link as an example. Also if we're gonna make Composite Link just the spirit of the Hero or just Link or whatever then we should also delete all the other Link profiles since they'd be redundant and unnecessary if it's all really meant to be considered just a single character in the same way as someone like Mario.

 

[GrathOfLux]

This is still not at all the point.

They all have the same spirit. This does not give Link the same abilities, hax and equipment in every depiction. That is what matters.

And frankly, considering the current debate regarding composite profiles, profiles like Composite Mario are also quite likely to be deleted if they can be sorted correctly.

At no point is Link a composite version of himself. Composite Link is entirely a made up concept.

 

[InfiniteSped]

From what I can tell, Link's case is just basic reincarnation, so he really shouldn't have the abilities of all his lives in just one profile.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

At no point is Link a composite version of himself. Composite Link is entirely a made up concept.

Then why is this so debated?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Because it's not. Again, Nintendo literally composited Link's character in both its official website and HE.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

HE? What's that?

And the website is moot. It's done for simplicity's sake. As long as it's not in a game where you're literally allowed to have everything or explain why he should be abel to do everything at the same time but chooses not to do so, then it's all moot.

 

[InfiniteSped]

This kinda sounds like giving this 9-C dude all the powers of this Low 2-C dude, because they're the same person reincarnated.

If he doesn't keep his powers and/or equipment throughout the reincarnations, then it really shouldn't matter that they're technically the same person.

 

[TriforcePower1]

HE is Hyrule Encyclopedia. It's a book that's basically a Zelda encyclopedia, and it has a couple of pages dedicated to Link. I posted the pages above. There aren't pages for singular Links.

@InfiniteSped

It's not "they're technically the same character", it's "They are the same character in everything except body". Personality, soul, aspect etc. all Links are made to be basically identical to each other because they're all "Link, the hero of Hyrule", and Nintendo does it purposely to push on the fact that they're all the same guy despite the reincarnation, and they also show that they want people to consider him the same character as shown by both website and HE. Almost anyone who has played more than 2 Zelda games can see it, but it's hard to explain with words. Also, I don't want to Composite them, just have a page for the soul that reincarnates.

 

[InfiniteSped]

How would the page for his soul be like? Does his soul alone have enough feats for a profile?

 

[GrathOfLux]

You keep insisting that they "composited his character", but they didn't.

They quite clearly kept his page the same for simplicity, and at best you could argue it's because they have the same spirit.

There is absolutely zero indication whatsoever that Link having a single page on the Zelda website means they are all the same character. And even if we assumed that to be the case, it's still inherently not correct. It is an official part of the lore and canon that all the Links are reincarnations of themselves with different abilities and experiences. Even if it was an offical, cut-and-dry Word of God statement from the developers, it wouldn't be correct; because it contradicts the canon from shown within the story, and that takes precedence over WoG statements.

On top of that, it's not even a Word of God statement. It's blatantly just a massive assumption about the developers intentions that is backed up by zero evidence. And you're stating that purely the assumption alone should overwrite explicit in-canon evidence.

No, Link is not "officially composited".