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L4D MEGA UPGRADE

Just found out that the survivors can destroy the rocks that a tank flings at them with their weapons. Even with melee ones.

Possible Martial Arts for Ellis since he claims to have taken karate classes.

Maybe an upgrade to the verse's speed, given that Zoey was able to disarm a soldier who was pointing a gun at her and Bill delivering a knuckle sandwich to another one before he could even react. Tbh I don't know if this still falls within Athletic Human speed or if this is enough to buff them to Peak Human.

For a possible LS feat we have Francis picking Zoey up with just one arm. The average 18 year old girl weighs 148.2 pounds (67.22 kg). Doubling that to account for both of his arms gives us 296.4 pounds (134.44 kg), Athletic Human.
 
Should the survivors scale to the tank? In expert mode the Tank incaps survivors in one hit and I can't remember any of the survivors surviving a hit from the Tank in any of the cinematics.
 
I would really only count normal difficulty as "canon" since, well, it's the default, and also the one used in versus mode.
But no, the tank is way stronger than the survivors. I do remember Nick blowing back a tank with a shotgun in the intro to the second game though.
 
Joaco0902 said:
I would really only count normal difficulty as "canon" since, well, it's the default, and also the one used in versus mode.
But no, the tank is way stronger than the survivors. I do remember Nick blowing back a tank with a shotgun in the intro to the second game though.
Click to expand...
I mean wall level weapons are guaranteed due to harming the tank and other infected, but I'm talking about the survivors durability (I feel like Francis takes a glancing blow in first cinematic but that could be me miss remembering things)
 
Joaco0902 said:
Yeah, their durability totally scales to the tank since they can take multiple hits from it.
Click to expand...
I know this is gonna sound like a pain....But, that could just be for the sake of gameplay

In the comics and cinematic, none of the survivors are shown taking a blow a full of attack from a tank (And as mentioned, on the highest difficulties the tank will incapacitate survivors in a single hit)



Also I wonder what this feat of the Tank throwing a helicopter could get it
L4dpg115.jpg


L4dpg116.jpg

You could possibly also get something for the survivors getting hit by part of the helicopters explosion
 
New stuff for us to discuss.

Chargers can bust through metal doors, and survivors can tank this. According to this calc, that's either Wall level+ or Small Building level. So like, yeah. 9-A L4D I guess.

Maybe it's time we define the verse's Lifting Strength value. I think it's reasonable to say the survivors have Athlete level LS since they can potentially carry a fully loaded M60 (26lb or 11.8kg), a chainsaw (seeing as it is pretty big i'll use the high-end of 20lb or 9kg), a med kit (1.1lbs or 0.5kg), and jerry cans full of gasoline in certain gamemodes and maps (6lbs or 2.7kg per gallon of fuel. Let's say the cans have around 3.5 gallons, or 21lbs/9.45kg of fuel each). This gives us a total of 53.1lbs or 24kg while not slowing down and fighting zombies for extended periods of time. This affects the entire verse because infected can restrain the survivors and such.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
That is nowhere near solid evidence for either subsonic or them being FTE. You can calculate their speed from the arc of the jump and how long it takes them to fall down from an entirely vertical leap and it's not subsonic.
Click to expand...
I mean, creating afterimages implies that they're moving faster than gameplay shows.
Qawsedf234 said:
You don't need to have AP of the same tier to harm someone, especially at the tier 10 and 9 range.
Click to expand...
Uhhh, you do for 9-B and up unless they're like baseline-ish tho, at most you can argue game mechanics

Idk the verse but for the most part, stuff here seems reasonable
 
Armorchompy said:
I mean, creating afterimages implies that they're moving faster than gameplay shows.
Click to expand...
You can look at their animated segments in game trailers and the like to get a speed. Just making after images isn't an automatic qualify for subsonic.


Armorchompy said:
Uhhh, you do for 9-B and up unless they're like baseline
Click to expand...
Knives, swords and bullets can harm 9-Bs while being 9-C. Common Infected struggle hard taking down any survivor, so them scaling seems questionable when we don't do that for other fodder enemies.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
You can look at their animated segments in game trailers and the like to get a speed. Just making after images isn't an automatic qualify for subsonic.
Click to expand...
Could I have a link to any of that?
Qawsedf234 said:
Knives, swords and bullets can harm 9-Bs while being 9-C.
Click to expand...
Only bullets, typically piercing weapons would still cause the user to scale, unless there's evidence to the contrary.
Qawsedf234 said:
Common Infected struggle hard taking down any survivor, so them scaling seems questionable when we don't do that for other fodder enemies.
Click to expand...
Again I don't know the verse well, but knowing that this is a zombie apocalypse, the concept of zombies being completely unable to harm what are in the story common humans is quite silly. We typically don't scale fodder enemies to protagonist because lore implies that they shouldn't, this is the opposite if anything.
 
Armorchompy said:
Again I don't know the verse well, but knowing that this is a zombie apocalypse, the concept of zombies being completely unable to harm what are in the story common humans is quite silly. We typically don't scale fodder enemies to protagonist because lore implies that they shouldn't, this is the opposite if anything.
Click to expand...
You can call it a gameplay mechanic but I do think its fair to note that its the special infected that have the survivors worried alongside hordes on common infected. At the highest difficulties, it takes one common infected 10 hits to incapacitate a survivor.
L4dpg11.jpg
 
You could argue that it's a skill thing, but I guess that makes sense
 
I feel as if the damage survivors take from infected in expert mode is the true representation of how strong the infected are, just watching the L4D cinematic opening makes it feel it feel like the survivors are barely making any progress between the new mutations and the size of the hordes. In Bill's own words, that entire four minute cinematic was just them crossing the street. Hordes aren't nearly as dangerous on easy and normal difficulties as they are in advanced or expert.

Armorchompy said:
You could argue that it's a skill thing, but I guess that makes sense
Click to expand...
That's a fair assessment, my point was that it takes large numbers of common infected to be a threat to the survivors, even then, they are no where near as dangerous to the survivors when compared to special infected. Common infected can still harm survivors but they are only a threat in large numbers.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Here you go
Click to expand...
I mean I'm not really seeing the afterimages here since it's a POV shot, but I would definitely assume that to be superhuman speed at the very minimum.
CharlesZaGreat said:
That's a fair assessment, my point was that it takes large numbers of common infected to be a threat to the survivors, even then, they are no where near as dangerous to the survivors when compared to special infected. Common infected can still harm survivors but they are only a threat in large numbers.
Click to expand...
Eh, you could argue either way regarding their tier I feel, contextually I would still assume they scale but eh.
 
Armorchompy said:
Again I don't know the verse well, but knowing that this is a zombie apocalypse, the concept of zombies being completely unable to harm what are in the story common humans is quite silly. We typically don't scale fodder enemies to protagonist because lore implies that they shouldn't, this is the opposite if anything.
Click to expand...
The normal zombies deal barely any damage to the humans (typically only 2 damage points per hit in normal difficulty, up to 10 per hit in expert I believe), but they do slow them down with their hits. Their strength relies on numbers and in keeping the survivors busy so that the special infected, the real damage dealers, can get in and do their thing.

Still, I am starting to question them just being athlete level. Implying that a 10-A can even remotely damage or slow down a 9-B seems dumb to me.

CharlesZaGreat said:
Just watching the L4D cinematic opening makes it feel it feel like the survivors are barely making any progress between the new mutations and the size of the hordes. In Bill's own words, that entire four minute cinematic was just them crossing the street.
Click to expand...
It wasn't just a few commons that made them take four minutes to cross the street, there where two hordes, a tank, a smoker, a hunter, and a witch. They butted heads with almost the entire cast.

CharlesZaGreat said:
I feel as if the damage survivors take from infected in expert mode is the true representation of how strong the infected are. Hordes aren't nearly as dangerous on easy and normal difficulties as they are in advanced or expert.
Click to expand...
I see where you're coming from, but normal difficulty is... normal. The default. Why would we assume that the events in the story are actually happening on a higher difficulty?
CharlesZaGreat said:
In the comics and cinematic, none of the survivors are shown taking a blow a full of attack from a tank (And as mentioned, on the highest difficulties the tank will incapacitate survivors in a single hit)
Click to expand...
They're also never seen getting one-shot by a tank in the comics or cinematics. If the game is the only source we have, we should use it.


first time in a few months this thread gets some real activity and I'm not here to see it. funny how some things go, huh
 
Personally for the zombies you could do "At most 9-B" or something like that, again I think any interpretation is justifiable but that is a decent compromise imo
 
What about "at least 9-C, at most 9-B"? I feel it covers a wide spectrum of interpretations for their power level.
 
I might be late, but weapons like the pipebomb or propane tank can shatter metal double doors, which is outright 9-A (also the grenade launcher and boomer explosion, but no source)

Players can survive them but take decent damage as a result (except for the boomer which deals no damage, only knockback)
 
Joaco0902 said:
Chargers can bust through metal doors, and survivors can tank this. According to this calc, that's either Wall level+ or Small Building level. So like, yeah. 9-A L4D I guess.
Click to expand...
Jason_Courne said:
I might be late, but weapons like the pipebomb or propane tank can shatter metal double doors, which is outright 9-A (also the grenade launcher and boomer explosion, but no source)

Players can survive them but take decent damage as a result (except for the boomer which deals no damage, only knockback)
Click to expand...
I think this is solid evidence for an upgrade to 9-A honestly
 
A combination of lazyness, forgetfulness, and me being busy and the only one who was realistically going to apply it before you guys came in. I guess we can just add it now? That calc Minecraft Hater did of the tank throwing a rock seems to have also been approved too
 
Joaco0902 said:
A combination of lazyness, forgetfulness, and me being busy and the only one who was realistically going to apply it before you guys came in. I guess we can just add it now? That calc Minecraft Hater did of the tank throwing a rock seems to have also been approved too
Click to expand...
Yeah, it should probably be added.
 
MinecraftHater2011 said:
Made this calc yesterday where I compared some Special Infected attacks to grenade launcher shots and got some (fairly low) Subsonic results, which is probably consistent since I'm pretty sure the Survivors can dodge the roller coaster carts on Dark Carnival somewhat easily and might be comparable to Keith, who was able to dodge some other roller coaster carts for about 20 minutes according to Ellis.
Click to expand...
We should implement it, seems a mod approved it.
 
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