L4D MEGA UPGRADE

[Joaco0902]

General changes:

Chargers can bust through metal doors, and survivors can tank this. According to this calc, that's either Wall level+ or Small Building level. So like, yeah. 9-A L4D.

Maybe it's time we define the verse's Lifting Strength value. I think it's reasonable to say the survivors have Athlete level LS since they can potentially carry a fully loaded M60 (26lb or 11.8kg), a chainsaw (seeing as it is pretty big i'll use the high-end of 20lb or 9kg), a med kit (1.1lbs or 0.5kg), and jerry cans full of gasoline in certain gamemodes and maps (6lbs or 2.7kg per gallon of fuel. Let's say the cans have around 3.5 gallons, or 21lbs/9.45kg of fuel each). This gives us a total of 53.1lbs or 24kg while not slowing down and fighting zombies for extended periods of time. This affects the entire verse because infected can restrain the survivors and such.

Survivors:

Possible Martial Arts for Ellis since he claims to have taken karate classes.


Special Infected:

Stealth Mastery for the Hunter.

They're the only special infected to not cause any sound upon spawning, even when running and jumping. They only start growling and creaming once they pounce.

Hunter should probably have this added to their Acrobatics section:

"Can perform a back roll to escape danger, as seen here. Can perform a back roll and be ready to pounce again in about a second"

And finally, we have the Uncommon Infected.

These guys are weird. They're all lumped inside one page despite all of them having completely different stats.

The CEDA Worker, the Clown Infected, the Worker Infected, and the Mud Men are basically just Common Infected with some extra abilities (Being fire-proof, being able to attract other infected, being inmune to Pipe Bombs, and temporarily blinding the player respectively). Therefore these guys should be 10-A.

The rest of the Uncommon Infected are Jimmy Gibbs Jr., The Fallen Survivor, and the Riot Infected. These are much more powerful.

JGJR is essentially a mini-boss, comparable to the Tank on easier difficulties, and being able to blind the survivors by throwing oil at them, like the Mud Men. He's also fire-proof. He should be 9-B.

The Fallen Survivor has the same HP as the Witch and can survive headshots. Again, 9-B.

The Riot Infected is interesting, because he is completely invulnerable to any attack that doesn't hit it on it's weak spot located on it's back, but otherwise he deals the same damage as a normal Infected. His AP should be 10-A but his Dura should be "at least 9-B, likely higher".

Yeah that's all.

 

[Joaco0902]

Bump

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

Yeah a lot of these pages need to be improved anyways, I agree. Also it should be pointed out that all Special Infected are able to break down walls by their lonesome as seen in Versus and Campaign mode.

 

[Joaco0902]

crap I forgot about this one.

Bump

 

[Joaco0902]

Aight, I made this into a general upgrade for L4D. Hope it gains traction.

 

[Assembled1801]

I agree with all of this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

First Off, Stealth Mastery. All of this comes from the L4D wiki

That's not a proper source.

The Smoker should have Regeneration, probably High-Low, as they're able to grow back their tongue after it's been shot several times in 30 seconds

This is selective regeneration since this doesn't apply to anything else on the smoker's body.

They also might have Subsonic speed while pouncing due to creating afterimages, which would make the Survivors have Subsonic reactions due to being able to react to it.

That is nowhere near solid evidence for either subsonic or them being FTE. You can calculate their speed from the arc of the jump and how long it takes them to fall down from an entirely vertical leap and it's not subsonic.

Also react is questionable since they are either using guns to shoot them and I'm not even sure if you can melee bunt them mid-jump.

EDIT: You can melee bunt them with the correct timing, although its difficult and doesn't work on some modes like vs.

Despite being able to harm the survivors who all have 9-B durability.

You don't need to have AP of the same tier to harm someone, especially at the tier 10 and 9 range.

They can also take down metal doors, there are many throughout the campaigns and they destroy them in a few hits.

There's some doors that are outright immune to them that are just steel emergency doors and eventually doors take a decent amount of strikes to get through.

 

[Joaco0902]

That's not a proper source.

Fair, I'll try to find other sources for this kind of stuff but there aren't many people counting how fast a Smoker's tongue regenerates lol

This is selective regeneration since this doesn't apply to anything else on the smoker's body.

Alright. No problem with that.

That is nowhere near solid evidence for either subsonic or them being FTE. You can calculate their speed from the arc of the jump and how long it takes them to fall down from an entirely vertical leap and it's not subsonic.

I agree. I simply remembered that he created afterimages when pouncing and people who can do that fall in subsonic range. This feat would probably yield some nice results, but I'm not good at calculating... anything, for that matter.

Also react is questionable since they are either using guns to shoot them and I'm not even sure if you can melee bunt them mid-jump.

EDIT: You can melee bunt them with the correct timing, although its difficult and doesn't work on some modes like vs.

There is an achievement for it and it's possible to do it consistently. Also, it is possible to do it in VS matches.

You don't need to have AP of the same tier to harm someone, especially at the tier 10 and 9 range.

All special infected are major hurdles for the survivors. Hunters tear them apart in seconds. Even Smokers, which aren't particularly powerful, aren't that far behind and still deal solid damage to them. Spitters basically melt them (You should put this last video on 2x, for whatever reason the editor slowed down the footage???)

There's some doors that are outright immune to them that are just steel emergency doors and eventually doors take a decent amount of strikes to get through.

Yes safe house doors are indeed invulnerable to all damage, but that's probably for balancing reasons. The safe house is meant to be... safe. It'd be stupid if a Jockey just broke the door down like that. They can leave huge gashes on regular metal doors (It takes them 3 strikes to destroy them iirc) and can completely obliterate walls.

 

[Qawsedf234]

All special infected are major hurdles for the survivors.

True. I thought you were saying something else when I wrote that. My mistake.

can completely obliterate walls.

Your example there is breaking through some planks and cover sheets rather than a solid wall of wood.

 

[Joaco0902]

Cover sheets? Take a closer look. That's a broken wall.

 

[Stillwinston]

Following

 

[Joaco0902]

Ooh, the comic has some stuff we could use.

Zoey sends a soldier flying with a single strike

A hunter shreds through a soldier's armour and seemingly bisects him (You can see his body on right panel)

Smoker obliterates a soldier's face in a few punches

Pretty much everyone should scale to this random ass doctor who ripped a zombie's jaw right off, a Class 50 feat.

 

[Qawsedf234]

o this random ass doctor who ripped a zombie's jaw right off, a Class 50 feat.

That's not a class 50 feat. Also it would be a massive outlier even if the calc was legit.

 

[Joaco0902]

Oof, that should be changed on all profiles that list it as such. So I guess their LS would just be Superhuman, right?

Also, I finally got around to uploading some footage to youtube that shows the special animation that plays when a survivor melees a hunter as he's pouncing, showing that it does indeed hurt the hunter. (Ignore the random audio being played, I like to have videos playing in the background when I'm playing as infected)

Also, footage of a hunter busting through a metal door in three hits.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oof, that should be changed on all profiles that list it as such. So I guess their LS would just be Superhuman, right?

Besides the Tank, yeah.

Though I don't know if survivors scale LS wise, since once grappled they can't overpower their attacker, even in 1 vs 1 situations.

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah if they were comparable the survivor could free themselves with enough effort, panicking or not.

 

[Joaco0902]

Though I don't know if survivors scale LS wise, since once grappled they can't overpower their attacker, even in 1 vs 1 situations.

The survivors would scale among each other, the infected that can subdue them should obviously be superior to them, so I guess their LS should be listed as "At least Superhuman"

 

[Qawsedf234]

The survivors would scale among each other,

How do they scale to superhuman?

 

[Joaco0902]

That's not a class 50 feat. Also it would be a massive outlier even if the calc was legit.

You said it yourself in this thread you linked.

"For now she, and anyone else who uses this, can just scale to superhuman for ripping off jaws until something else can be found"

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oh you're scaling them to the doctor.

Though I don't know how legit that scaling is.

 

[Joaco0902]

Maybe we could use "Possibly Superhuman"?

 

[Joaco0902]

The survivors can crush skulls with melee weapons, cause major damage to the torso even with sidearms, easily blow up limbs with a few rifle shots, shoot holes through heads in a single shot, etc. Is this enough to make all their weapons 9-B and not just the grenade launcher?

 

[Assembled1801]

The survivors can crush skulls with melee weapons

It didn't crushed a skull, it knocked the head off with a swing.

 

[Joaco0902]

**** you're right

but all the other stuff is ok, right?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The other stuff seems good.

 

[Joaco0902]

Should I wait for Qawsedf who is an admin to approve of the changes or can I just add them rn? Sorry for being bad at this stuff, I haven't done CRT's in a looooong while.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is this enough to make all their weapons 9-B and not just the grenade launcher

The only feat not being able to be replicated in real life is the torso damage from a side arm. The rest of plenty of historical and modern evidence of happening.

 

[Joaco0902]

I won't pretend that I know the slightest bit about guns, but from what I understand, doing this much damage to a person with a single bullet from an M16 is not normal at all unless that thing is loaded with like, explosive rounds, which is not the case in that video. ( The hud changes when you pick up special ammo)

 

[Qawsedf234]

but from what I understand, doing this much damage to a person with a single bullet from an M16 is not normal at all unless

You can look up assualt rifle gunshot wounds. When the bullet tumbles they can cause similar levels of damage. The issue here would the the angle of the shot rather than the damage inflicted.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

You can look up assualt rifle gunshot wounds. When the bullet tumbles they can cause similar levels of damage. The issue here would the the angle of the shot rather than the damage inflicted.

Hold up, since when rifle cartridges had energy enough to do massive enter holes and exit hole to the point you can see only bones or just the spine with almost clear vision to see through the hole.
You can google right now 556 Exit wounds and they are NOWHERE near the wounds done like in L4D2

Tumbling only makes the round go diferent ways while inside the body before leaving. Even then, you have temporary holes cause by the energy within the round alone. Rifle cartridges can NOT make wound where you can see the ENTIRE thoracic vertebrae and almost the entire lumbar vertebrae.

 

[Joaco0902]

Alright, I've finally managed to make a showcase of stuff that I'm confident will actually give us some nice results. Mainly, head popping.

Here's the video in question.

Everything up to 1:29 shows different guns (M16, Hunting Rifle, Shotgun) exploding zombie's heads with a single shot. This should put basically every weapon in game into 9-B since the feat is 3.496e4 Joules, Wall level.

The rest of the video shows how many physical hits it takes to kill the Special Infected, which varies from 4 to 5 blows. Given that the SI should be 9-B due to being able to deal major damage to the survivors, the survivors' Striking Strength should be upgraded to 9-B. The only SI that are unable to be harmed by a survivors' punches are the Charger, the Witch, and the Tank.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Rifle cartridges can NOT make wound where you can see the ENTIRE thoracic vertebrae and almost the entire lumbar vertebrae.

I know, which is why I mentioned the angle being the issue rather than the energy. The shots are more powerful than their IRL versions due to the amount of skin and muscle they can rip apart at once.

But considering the enormous level of damage the guns do to infected nothing besides the Tank and maybe Witch scale to them.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Shotgun

Shotguns would need to divide the energy by the amount of projectiles.

 

[Joaco0902]

Shotguns would need to divide the energy by the amount of projectiles.

Don't they just scale to all other weapons? Like, I get it, but isn't it a bit overkill to find the kinetic energy of every pellet? Not to mention that it'd be incredibly hard to test. I can't control where the projectiles go nor where they would hit. It's way easier to just roughly approximate their power to the same as every other primary weapon since they all deal similar damage.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Don't they just scale to all other weapons?

No, because its a shotgun. It doesn't shoot just one thing.

It's way easier to just roughly approximate their power to the same as every other primary weapon since they all deal similar damage.

It would just be "Calc / Number of pellets". Its why all of our IRL shotgun pages only use slug energy, since that is one projectile rather than a bunch of pellets.

 

[Joaco0902]

Aight, gotcha. It's got 10 pellets. 3.496e4 Joules divided by ten gives me...

3.80124530892 Joules per pellet.

I don't know what AP level this is because I'm stoopid and I can't do calcs by myself. Sorry that you basically have to do all the work here, I'm about as useless as it gets with calcing anything.

 

[Qawsedf234]

3.496e+4 / 10 = 3,496 Joules or 9-C.

We rate shotgun slugs for IRL stuff at around 4,200 Joules so its a rather powerful shotgun shot.

 

[Joaco0902]

Alright, so their tier would be listed as "9-B physically, 9-C to 9-B with weapons", correct?

Also, thanks for putting up with my terrible math lol

 

[Joaco0902]

**** it, I know that's probably how it'll go. This is what it should look like:

Attack Potency: Wall Level physically (Able to kill most Special Infected in a few blows) Street Level to Wall Level with weapons (Pistols should be this level, as they're significantly weaker than other guns. Shotguns fire 10 pellets per shot, with each pellet dealing about 3,496 Joules of force. The Magnum Pistol can cause major damage to the torso. Most other primary weapons can blow up heads and limbs with ease. The grenade launcher is based on the M79, which can fire HE rounds containing 32 grams of composition B, the equivalent of 253.8 kilojoules)

I notice now that it's somewhat lenghty, but seeing how there's 43 different ways to mutilate commons, i think it's somewhat warranted.

 

[Joaco0902]

Bump