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Also, if Ikki would be 0.0335 Tons in Base, then others characters should scale as well at 9-A
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Kurogane Ikki (Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry/Eiyuutan) Stat Check Part 3
- Thread starter Lina_Shields
- Start date
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That would be reasonable, yes. So, is there a list of said characters who would scale from this?
- Touka Toudou
- Shizuku Kurogane
- Ayase Ayatsuji
- Kuraudo Kurashiki
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All of them
Small Building level is quite a big tier, and Ikki is not that close to 0.005
(Damn, Small Building - Building - Large Building Ikki? That some good s**t to my eyes. Perfect tier)
Small Building level is quite a big tier, and Ikki is not that close to 0.005
(Damn, Small Building - Building - Large Building Ikki? That some good s**t to my eyes. Perfect tier)
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@Aiden: That sounds good to me. Those Itto Shura power boosts.
Now then, where do we place Edelweiss, Ouma, and Tyrant? Keep in mind that Ikki needed Itto Shura to barely keep up with Ouma the first time. Now that I think about it, Ouma did tank Touka's Raikiri without any scratches whatsoever...
Thus, my suggestion for Ouma's AP and Durability would be:
Now then, where do we place Edelweiss, Ouma, and Tyrant? Keep in mind that Ikki needed Itto Shura to barely keep up with Ouma the first time. Now that I think about it, Ouma did tank Touka's Raikiri without any scratches whatsoever...
Thus, my suggestion for Ouma's AP and Durability would be:
- Attack Potency: Building level, likely higher (Ikki needed Itto Shura just to barely keep up with him)
- Durability: At least Large Building level (Can take Touka's Raikiri directly without any scratches whatsoever)"
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Seems ok, So Class GJ physically, and Low 7-C with Magic?
Also... Didn't Stella survived a hit from Ittou Shura?
About Edelweiss, I think that "At least Large Building level, likely higher" seems reasonable (but, she has no magic? Or why she is not scale from Ouma and Stella?)
And I'm in a calc for Ikki (that would be a little upgrade for his base to Supersonic+, and High Hypersonic to Ittou Shura and Edelweiss
Also... Didn't Stella survived a hit from Ittou Shura?
About Edelweiss, I think that "At least Large Building level, likely higher" seems reasonable (but, she has no magic? Or why she is not scale from Ouma and Stella?)
And I'm in a calc for Ikki (that would be a little upgrade for his base to Supersonic+, and High Hypersonic to Ittou Shura and Edelweiss
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Shizuku does not scale to Ikki at all. She's much weaker than him in melee.
Ouma definitely scales. He's still stronger than Ikki, even with Ittou Shura. The durability upgrade is also fine.
Ayase is not as strong as Ikki, but she's not weaker to the point of being a tier lower.
Kuraudo, Touka and Edelweiss can be scaled from this, of course. Nene scales too.
@Lina Tyrant is featless and hasn't even appeared on-screen.
@Aiden Stella only survived because Ikki was using Illusionary Form. Edelweiss has magic, we just haven't seen it yet. It might be something light-related, but there's probably much more to it considering how hax Amane and Kurono are. That AP for her is fine, though.
What feat are you calculating? I'm curious now.
Ouma definitely scales. He's still stronger than Ikki, even with Ittou Shura. The durability upgrade is also fine.
Ayase is not as strong as Ikki, but she's not weaker to the point of being a tier lower.
Kuraudo, Touka and Edelweiss can be scaled from this, of course. Nene scales too.
@Lina Tyrant is featless and hasn't even appeared on-screen.
@Aiden Stella only survived because Ikki was using Illusionary Form. Edelweiss has magic, we just haven't seen it yet. It might be something light-related, but there's probably much more to it considering how hax Amane and Kurono are. That AP for her is fine, though.
What feat are you calculating? I'm curious now.
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I dont think that Shizuku is more that 7 times weaker than Ikki
About the feat, is Ikki slashing an arrow
About the feat, is Ikki slashing an arrow
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Seven times is a bit of an understatement if you ask me.
I honestly don't know how you get Supersonic+ from slashing an arrow, but you're the one doing the calc, so i guess i'll just wait until you post it.
I honestly don't know how you get Supersonic+ from slashing an arrow, but you're the one doing the calc, so i guess i'll just wait until you post it.
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What you mean?NotEvenHuman said:
I honestly don't know how you get Supersonic+ from slashing an arrow, but you're the one doing the calc, so i guess i'll just wait until you post it.
Considering how close the arrow was from him, and the fact that Ikki wasn't even looking at it...
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I meant that, in my opinion, Shizuku is easily more than 7 times weaker than Ikki.
Ah, that makes sense.
Ah, that makes sense.
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(Damn that the manga looks more epic that the anime.... Well, in the clash itself, Ikki activating Rasetsu looked more epic in the anime)
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So..... can we apply the upgrades yet?
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I was going to ask if can do it, but Ikki and Stella's pages are locked
(Why? They're not that controversial or popular to be locked)
(Why? They're not that controversial or popular to be locked)
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I'm pretty sure i asked Lina about that a few months ago on his wall. I'm not searching for that thread now though, it's probably buried more than 10 pages down and it's kinda late here.
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The pages have been unlocked. You may add the changes according to what was discussed in this thread.
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She, thought, I have two more questions: Could Shizuku have Small Building level Durability, since she survived some hits from Touka? And could Edelweiss have "At least Large Building level" Durability since she should be more Durable than Ouma?
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Shizuku never tanked anything from Touka, so no.
You can upgrade Edelweiss though.
You can upgrade Edelweiss though.
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Rereading the novel for a debate on another forum, I got this, which is my reply to the other forum, copied over to here.
Touka can cover 20 meters in the blink of an eye, just throwing this random tidbit out. Anyways, her generating an electromagnetic field is what allows her to move at lightning speeds as iirc, it is a requirement for real cloud-based lightning to occur. Her attack was described as "undoubtedly like lightning", "electromagnetic sword draw", "a blade of plasma", "high-voltage current" and "An artful sword draw that splits even descending lightning" too.
She moves too fast that even her own eyes can't follow so she removes her glasses and relies on amping the speed of electrical signals in her head, as well as feeling out her opponent's.
Base Ikki waited for Tomaru Renren, whose ability, Mach Grid, is to speed up to supersonic speeds, to reach Mach 2 and attack him. He dodges her fists once, she ran away and back again for another attack, only to get caught by Ikki and slammed to the ground.
Ittou Shura Ikki cut the arm of the guy (who can reflect attacks with his hand) who can react to Stella (who can somehow keep up with Base Ikki) so easily and even circled around the outstretched reflecting hand to cut it off, then swing back to cut off the other, that to said guy, Ikki's attack was essentially invisible, describing it as being beyond human Perception.
That, and it was also described a being slightly slower than Raikiri.
Ittou Razetsu Ikki, in his first use, was midway to having a first strike match with Touka's Raikiri. Halfway through her swing, he notices he's outsped by the opposing attack that he described as "slightly faster" even with Ittou Shura, so forces himself to go further to the point of disabling all his senses for one second. He outsped Raikiri midswing, met her sword and smashed it to pieces, knocking her out in the process that she doesn't even twitch. It was noted after the match that their sword strikes were off just by millimeters, and with that minute difference, Ikki one-shot Touka through Raikiri.
That makes him MHS+ easy already.
Touka can cover 20 meters in the blink of an eye, just throwing this random tidbit out. Anyways, her generating an electromagnetic field is what allows her to move at lightning speeds as iirc, it is a requirement for real cloud-based lightning to occur. Her attack was described as "undoubtedly like lightning", "electromagnetic sword draw", "a blade of plasma", "high-voltage current" and "An artful sword draw that splits even descending lightning" too.
She moves too fast that even her own eyes can't follow so she removes her glasses and relies on amping the speed of electrical signals in her head, as well as feeling out her opponent's.
Base Ikki waited for Tomaru Renren, whose ability, Mach Grid, is to speed up to supersonic speeds, to reach Mach 2 and attack him. He dodges her fists once, she ran away and back again for another attack, only to get caught by Ikki and slammed to the ground.
Ittou Shura Ikki cut the arm of the guy (who can reflect attacks with his hand) who can react to Stella (who can somehow keep up with Base Ikki) so easily and even circled around the outstretched reflecting hand to cut it off, then swing back to cut off the other, that to said guy, Ikki's attack was essentially invisible, describing it as being beyond human Perception.
That, and it was also described a being slightly slower than Raikiri.
Ittou Razetsu Ikki, in his first use, was midway to having a first strike match with Touka's Raikiri. Halfway through her swing, he notices he's outsped by the opposing attack that he described as "slightly faster" even with Ittou Shura, so forces himself to go further to the point of disabling all his senses for one second. He outsped Raikiri midswing, met her sword and smashed it to pieces, knocking her out in the process that she doesn't even twitch. It was noted after the match that their sword strikes were off just by millimeters, and with that minute difference, Ikki one-shot Touka through Raikiri.
That makes him MHS+ easy already.
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I am very interested in regards to that Itto Shura Ikki statement. Would this mean that Ikki in Itto Shura is essentially Massively Hypersonic, considering that he has able to move so fast that it was FTE, even a guy with Supersonic reactions?
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Hypersonic characters can also blitz Supersonic characters, you know.
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Supersonic+ characters can blitz Supersonic CharactersNotEvenHuman said:
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The moment of the signal that raised the curtain. Everyone there saw something they could not believe. At the same time the buzzer sounded the beginning of the match, Ikki pulled forth blue light from his body, and ran at Touka.
ÒÇîWh-Wh-Wh-What is going on!? Contender Kurogane suddenly used his trump card, Ittou Shura!ÒÇì
The inside of the venue stirred at that fact. Ikki had employed Ittou Shura at the beginning of the match, which he had never done before.
It was natural. This technique had a strict limit of one minute. It could be nullified just by running away. For that reason, Ikki never used it without first exhaustively understanding the scope of his opponents' powers.
But now, Ikki had thrown away that attitude. He had no stamina left to draw out his opponent's ability bit by bit. Was he too much in a hurry to decide the match because of that fatigue?
TL;DR page cut
The two knights put their entire bodies into it, and followed through with their slashes! The flash of lightning from the attack released by steel. The mutual strike that crossed the shortest distance―Raikiri was just slightly faster!
―Not good!
Ikki knew this.
―This wasn't enough!
Before his eyes that already could not perceive color, a blade of shining plasma was approaching. Before that speed and power―
―He couldn't reach it!
He would be defeated. The Raikiri that followed through would show neither hesitation nor mercy. A complete swing that would kill without remorse. Such a beautiful, beautiful swordsmanship.
Touka Toudou, Raikiri… this girl was truly strong!
―But so what!?
He already knew that. That she was strong, and that he was inferior to most, all of it. However, did Ikki turn his eyes away from that reality?
No!
He continued to fight. He did not retreat one step from that unbearable reality. That was why he knew. Because Ikki was like that, he knew what he should be doing right now.
If he was inferior, he should gather his strength. If he was imperfect, he should strain his power.
One minute was too long. Right now, he just needed one second!
―So be it, he'll sharpen his soul.
- - -
This fight showed that Ikki activated Ittou Shura immediately as the match started, then midway in his and Touka's swings, his Raikou vs her Raikiri, Ikki saw that it wasn't enough. He wasn't fast enough, that Raikiri was just slightly faster.
So yeah. With this fight, and the description of Raikiri from Touka vs Shizuka, this is what comes out:
MHS+ Raikiri (Assuming Touka can use Raikiri at exactly lightning speed [440 000 m/s], then she's Mach 1282.80)
MHS+ Ittou Razetsu (Considering Razetsu outsped Raikiri, that and Ikki was superbuffed even further, then this makes Razetsu at least Mach 1282.80)
QUOTE:
And furthermore Stella noticed it. Ikki's entire body, it was bleeding underneath his clothes. The body he had strengthened many hundred-fold. It was already beyond the range that a human body could withstand.
- - -
At least MHS Ittou Shura (Considering Ittou Razetsu is Base Ikki amped hundred-fold, that makes Ittou Shura 1/10 of Razetsu, resulting in Mach 128.27)
QUOTE:
While swinging her sword of light, Stella made this protest. A release of magic power that could be seen by the naked eye, and then movements that couldn't? Such things weren't caused just by doubling physical attributes. Even if she was only talking about physical power, Ikki's had surely jumped more than ten-fold.
- - -
At least Hypersonic+ Base Ikki (Considering Ittou Shura jumped Ikki's stats ten-fold, diving Ittou Shura's result now by 10, Mach 12.83)
- - -
With regards to their reflexes, Ikki's Ittou Shura naturally scales to his attack speed, so MHS, since he was the one who noted that Raikiri is a tad bit faster. That and he activated Razetsu mid-swing.
So Ittou Shura is much higher than Mach 128, probably nearer to 1000 than it is to 100, and Ittou Razetsu is much faster since it outsped Raikiri that got a bit of a headstart from outspeeding Ittou Shura.
And considering it's 8am and I have yet to sleep, I probably screwed this up somehow.
Good mornight.
EDIT:
Misplaced quotes and wiki causing trouble.
ÒÇîWh-Wh-Wh-What is going on!? Contender Kurogane suddenly used his trump card, Ittou Shura!ÒÇì
The inside of the venue stirred at that fact. Ikki had employed Ittou Shura at the beginning of the match, which he had never done before.
It was natural. This technique had a strict limit of one minute. It could be nullified just by running away. For that reason, Ikki never used it without first exhaustively understanding the scope of his opponents' powers.
But now, Ikki had thrown away that attitude. He had no stamina left to draw out his opponent's ability bit by bit. Was he too much in a hurry to decide the match because of that fatigue?
TL;DR page cut
The two knights put their entire bodies into it, and followed through with their slashes! The flash of lightning from the attack released by steel. The mutual strike that crossed the shortest distance―Raikiri was just slightly faster!
―Not good!
Ikki knew this.
―This wasn't enough!
Before his eyes that already could not perceive color, a blade of shining plasma was approaching. Before that speed and power―
―He couldn't reach it!
He would be defeated. The Raikiri that followed through would show neither hesitation nor mercy. A complete swing that would kill without remorse. Such a beautiful, beautiful swordsmanship.
Touka Toudou, Raikiri… this girl was truly strong!
―But so what!?
He already knew that. That she was strong, and that he was inferior to most, all of it. However, did Ikki turn his eyes away from that reality?
No!
He continued to fight. He did not retreat one step from that unbearable reality. That was why he knew. Because Ikki was like that, he knew what he should be doing right now.
If he was inferior, he should gather his strength. If he was imperfect, he should strain his power.
One minute was too long. Right now, he just needed one second!
―So be it, he'll sharpen his soul.
- - -
This fight showed that Ikki activated Ittou Shura immediately as the match started, then midway in his and Touka's swings, his Raikou vs her Raikiri, Ikki saw that it wasn't enough. He wasn't fast enough, that Raikiri was just slightly faster.
So yeah. With this fight, and the description of Raikiri from Touka vs Shizuka, this is what comes out:
MHS+ Raikiri (Assuming Touka can use Raikiri at exactly lightning speed [440 000 m/s], then she's Mach 1282.80)
MHS+ Ittou Razetsu (Considering Razetsu outsped Raikiri, that and Ikki was superbuffed even further, then this makes Razetsu at least Mach 1282.80)
QUOTE:
And furthermore Stella noticed it. Ikki's entire body, it was bleeding underneath his clothes. The body he had strengthened many hundred-fold. It was already beyond the range that a human body could withstand.
- - -
At least MHS Ittou Shura (Considering Ittou Razetsu is Base Ikki amped hundred-fold, that makes Ittou Shura 1/10 of Razetsu, resulting in Mach 128.27)
QUOTE:
While swinging her sword of light, Stella made this protest. A release of magic power that could be seen by the naked eye, and then movements that couldn't? Such things weren't caused just by doubling physical attributes. Even if she was only talking about physical power, Ikki's had surely jumped more than ten-fold.
- - -
At least Hypersonic+ Base Ikki (Considering Ittou Shura jumped Ikki's stats ten-fold, diving Ittou Shura's result now by 10, Mach 12.83)
- - -
With regards to their reflexes, Ikki's Ittou Shura naturally scales to his attack speed, so MHS, since he was the one who noted that Raikiri is a tad bit faster. That and he activated Razetsu mid-swing.
So Ittou Shura is much higher than Mach 128, probably nearer to 1000 than it is to 100, and Ittou Razetsu is much faster since it outsped Raikiri that got a bit of a headstart from outspeeding Ittou Shura.
And considering it's 8am and I have yet to sleep, I probably screwed this up somehow.
Good mornight.
EDIT:
Misplaced quotes and wiki causing trouble.
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Raikiri has several statement about the lightining thingy, also, it is already MHS, so...
Touka: Massively Hypersonic+ Attack Speed with Raikiri (Claimed to be as fast as lightning)
Ikki:
Touka: Massively Hypersonic+ Attack Speed with Raikiri (Claimed to be as fast as lightning)
Ikki:
- Rasetsu: At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Blitzed Raikiri in mid attack)
- Ittou Shura: At least Massively Hypersonic, possibly higher (Sightly slower than Raikiri)
- At least Hypersonic+ (1/10th the speed of Ittou Shura)
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@Gemmysaur That's only valid if you assume Raikiri is as fast as actual lightning. There are a ton of statements about it, but i'm not sure if it's enough when the only thing backing them up is a MHS feat. I won't have any problems with it if everyone else agrees, though.
I don't think we can use IS Ikki reacting to Raikiri because Shippu Jinrai is supposed to be > Ittou Shura, and Raikiri is supposed to be > Shippu Jinrai. Ikki can't be slower than Shippu Jinrai and as fast as Raikiri at the same time. This might invalidate scaling IS to Raikiri, too. Then again, it's entirely possible that interpreted the scene wrong and SJ is not faster than IS at all.
We use 10x and 100x for IS and IR because we don't know exactly how many times they buff his stats, so we just take the lowest end.
Damn. Go get some sleep, dude.
I don't think we can use IS Ikki reacting to Raikiri because Shippu Jinrai is supposed to be > Ittou Shura, and Raikiri is supposed to be > Shippu Jinrai. Ikki can't be slower than Shippu Jinrai and as fast as Raikiri at the same time. This might invalidate scaling IS to Raikiri, too. Then again, it's entirely possible that interpreted the scene wrong and SJ is not faster than IS at all.
We use 10x and 100x for IS and IR because we don't know exactly how many times they buff his stats, so we just take the lowest end.
Damn. Go get some sleep, dude.
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"Yes, it is neither exaggeration nor a lie. It's the noble art that became Toudou-san's epithet because of its immense strength and awe striking nature. To elaborate, it is the ultra-electromagnetic battoujutsu <Raikiri>."
She creates a powerful magnetic field with her thunder ability around the blade and scabbard of <Narukami>, hanging on her waist, and then shoots the blade out.
The strike of that battō has the tremendous power and speed to even cut through a lightning bolt.
- - -
It has an electromagnetic field, which, going by Magnemite evolution line, is acceptable reason to believe it is as fast as real lightning.
Electromagnetic Field appears before lightning strikes:
"In an electrical storm, the storm clouds are charged like giant capacitors in the sky. The upper portion of the cloud is positive and the lower portion is negative."
"The newly knocked-off electrons gather at the lower portion of the cloud, giving it a negative charge."
"When there is a charge separation in a cloud, there is also an electric field that is associated with the separation. Like the cloud, this field is negative in the lower region and positive in the upper region."
"All that is needed now is a conductive path for the negative cloud bottom to contact the positive earth surface. The strong electric field, being somewhat self-sufficient, creates this path."
"The strong electric field causes the air around the cloud to "break down," allowing current to flow in an attempt to neutralize the charge separation. Simply stated, the air breakdown creates a path that short-circuits the cloud/earth as if there were a long metal rod connecting the cloud to the earth. "
- - -
Novel describing Raikiri:
"undoubtedly like lightning"
"electromagnetic sword draw"
"a blade of plasma"
"high-voltage current"
"An artful sword draw that splits even descending lightning"
- - -
Good night. Last post for now.
She creates a powerful magnetic field with her thunder ability around the blade and scabbard of <Narukami>, hanging on her waist, and then shoots the blade out.
The strike of that battō has the tremendous power and speed to even cut through a lightning bolt.
- - -
It has an electromagnetic field, which, going by Magnemite evolution line, is acceptable reason to believe it is as fast as real lightning.
Electromagnetic Field appears before lightning strikes:
"In an electrical storm, the storm clouds are charged like giant capacitors in the sky. The upper portion of the cloud is positive and the lower portion is negative."
"The newly knocked-off electrons gather at the lower portion of the cloud, giving it a negative charge."
"When there is a charge separation in a cloud, there is also an electric field that is associated with the separation. Like the cloud, this field is negative in the lower region and positive in the upper region."
"All that is needed now is a conductive path for the negative cloud bottom to contact the positive earth surface. The strong electric field, being somewhat self-sufficient, creates this path."
"The strong electric field causes the air around the cloud to "break down," allowing current to flow in an attempt to neutralize the charge separation. Simply stated, the air breakdown creates a path that short-circuits the cloud/earth as if there were a long metal rod connecting the cloud to the earth. "
- - -
Novel describing Raikiri:
"undoubtedly like lightning"
"electromagnetic sword draw"
"a blade of plasma"
"high-voltage current"
"An artful sword draw that splits even descending lightning"
- - -
Good night. Last post for now.
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Well, i guess that's enough for an upgrade.
Good night.
Good night.
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I already commented my thoughts.NotEvenHuman said:
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Hmm, regarding the upgrades based on AidenBrooks' suggestions, if Base Ikki becomes Hypersonic+, I would think everyone that faced Ikki would scale to this?
Ouma and Edelweiss would probably get major buffs from this, since both fighters have outpaced Ikki's Itto Shura with no issues.
Ouma and Edelweiss would probably get major buffs from this, since both fighters have outpaced Ikki's Itto Shura with no issues.
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If IS gets bumped up to MHS, then so does Ouma. Edelweiss would be MHS+, since she should be superior to IR.
Everyone that scales from Base Ikki would also get the upgrade, of course.
Everyone that scales from Base Ikki would also get the upgrade, of course.
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ReasonableNotEvenHuman said:
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So.... If everbody agrees... can I make the upgrades?
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Wait. If Ikki's base speed is Hypersonic+ due to the fact that he was invisible to a supersonic character while using Itou Shura, and Stella's base speed is Hypersonic+ via scaling from Ikki, how on earth was Bishou (the guy who reflected back Stella's attacks) able to react to Stella's attacks in the first place?
This would mean that Bishou would have Hypersonic+ speed for reacting to Stella, which brings up Ikki's IS to a hundred times that speed (due to the slash being "completely invisible to his eyes" thing)
We leave Ikki's speed as it is, as being completely invisible to his/her eyes could just be flowery language on the author's part, or we can set Bishou's speed to Hypersonic+ for reacting to Stella.
Bottom line: You don't have to be 100x faster than the opponent to show up completely invisible to the opponent, especially at close range combat. We actually rejected the FTE timeframe here on the forums btw (should have mentioned that earlier, but yea).
This would mean that Bishou would have Hypersonic+ speed for reacting to Stella, which brings up Ikki's IS to a hundred times that speed (due to the slash being "completely invisible to his eyes" thing)
We leave Ikki's speed as it is, as being completely invisible to his/her eyes could just be flowery language on the author's part, or we can set Bishou's speed to Hypersonic+ for reacting to Stella.
Bottom line: You don't have to be 100x faster than the opponent to show up completely invisible to the opponent, especially at close range combat. We actually rejected the FTE timeframe here on the forums btw (should have mentioned that earlier, but yea).
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Ikki will be Hypersonic+ because of being one hundredth of Ittou Rasetsu, which blitzed Raikiri, which has several proofs of lightning speed (and it is already MHS, so it doesn't looks like a "heavy" outlier)
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This would have to mean that Bishou's speed needs to be Hypersonic+ instead of Supersonic, along with a whole bunch of other characters as well, including RenRen.
Are you guys okay with this?
Are you guys okay with this?
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Who is Bishou? I don't remember him/her
Also, why RenRen would be Hypersonic+? She was blizted badly by Ikki
Also, why RenRen would be Hypersonic+? She was blizted badly by Ikki
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- #357
Bishou is the guy who deflected Stella's attacks right back at her. It's also the same person that got his arm cut off by Ikki's Itto Shura.
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Oh... so...
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Renren doesn't need to be Hypersonic+. She got blitzed.
Bishou would be Hypersonic+, but he doesn't have a page and, to be honest, he's not relevant enough to have one.
Bishou would be Hypersonic+, but he doesn't have a page and, to be honest, he's not relevant enough to have one.
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So, you agree with the upgrade?
- Status
