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Kratos vs. Accelerator

@Xan

'fraid not. That's the only thing that's preventing him to win, really, but it is such a goddamn big obstacle that I can't see Kratos winning this one.

Unless, of course, the vector shield doesn't block 100% energy beams, in which case, Kratos may bypass it with Medusa's Head, literally stoning Acclerator.
 
@God-King

Nope. Kratos's Soul Manipulation only takes effect if it touches the target. Well, perhaps he could summon something _within_ the vector shield, but idk how far does it extends, and even then, Accel could probably hurl said summoning away with his own vector manipulation.
 
@God

I don't think so. The attacks coming from the claws of hades (and the summons) are most likely physical (since it looks like those attacks are damaging the enemies that way), so it will most likely not bypass Accel's shield.
 
@EliminatorVenom

In addition, you can't summon things within the Vector Shield because he can nullify To Aru teleportation, which travels through 11-Dimensional Vectors.

That said, I believe Kratos has Time Manipulation, but since I don't know anything about GoW, I don't know if this version has it.
 
Reppuzan said:
@EliminatorVenom
In addition, you can't summon things within the Vector Shield because he can nullify To Aru teleportation, which travels through 11-Dimensional Vectors.

That said, I believe Kratos has Time Manipulation, but since I don't know anything about GoW, I don't know if this version has it.
Click to expand...
Composite Kratos, he can use any weapon/power-up he has ever used.
 
Reppuzan said:
Okay, does anyone know how Kratos' Time Manipulation works?
Click to expand...
In God of War: Ascension, Kratos gains an item called the Amulet of Uroborus that he can use to specifically target objects and invididuals to either speed up time or reverse it for them. The terms used in its use for solving puzzles are "Decay" and "Heal", where obviously, Decay is used to send an object or item so far into the future, it wears down. While Heal reverses time for the object to restore it back to its original state. Kratos specifically uses it in combat during gameplay to slow down movement of enemy attackers, so if Accelerator is open to time manipulation, Kratos can overcome the Vector Shield.

It's honestly a hax depending on the debatable argument involving its limitations, and the only other item is Amulet of the Fates where Kratos can slow down time for everything around him but must be near a "Fates Statue" for it to properly work (God of War 2).
 
I suppose that would bypass Accelerator's Redirection since it's dependent on him thinking in order to take effect.

That said, this is Angel form Accelerator, who can manipulate vectors from a distance. What's to stop him from just reversing Krato's blood flow, making his body explode, tear him apart at the atomic level with his wings, or some other grisly death?
 
@Candy Vegetto

Is there a video that clearly shows how the amulet works on enemies? Because according to the GoW wiki, not only does Kratos need to be close to the target to use it, it shoots a green beam that needs to hit enemies in order to affect them (which means it wouldn't work on Accelerator) and it specifies that it "slows them down for a few seconds". If Kratos can only slow down Accelerator, he's not getting past Redirection, as he's esentially just making himself faster relative to Accelerator, and I doubt he's slowing him down enough to get past his redirection when light can't.

Not to mention that, like Reppuzan said, Accelerator with wings can just immobilize and kill Kratos from a distance, and Kratos might just kill himself trying to attack Accelerator regularly before it occurs to him to try the amulet.
 
LazyHunter said:
@Candy Vegetto
Is there a video that clearly shows how the amulet woks on enemies? Because according to the GoW wiki, not only does Kratos need to be close to the target to use it, it shoots a green beam that needs to hit enemies in order to affect them (which means it wouldn't work on Accelerator) and it specifies that it "slows them down for a few seconds". If Kratos can only slow down Accelerator, he's not getting past Redirection, as he's esentially just making himself faster relative to Accelerator, and I doubt he's slowing him down enough to get past his redirection when light can't.

Not to mention that, like Reppuzan said, Accelerator with wings can just immobilize and kill Kratos from a distance, and Kratos might just kill himself trying to attack Accelerator regularly before it occurs to him to try the amulet.
Click to expand...
Gameplay for combat wise, yes, that's exactly how it works so I won't provide a video on that end. But at the same time, mechanically, the objects are also being shown during puzzle missions where Kratos activates the amulet and objects surrounding him from over 50 meters or so away are manipulated by it. So depending on what you define as specifics (I personally would take the feat of the puzzle mechanics because the enemy gameplay is more skillshot based to give players challenge over define the object's real power).

The Ascension amulet also appears to freeze time entirely for the objects, and give you the option to move it forward or backwards in time depending on your actions. So I'm not sure exactly what Accelerator's main defenses are in negating time manipulation, but that Amulet gives Kratos the hax advantage so far imo.

Link to him manipulating the Water Wheel Puzzle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-X8ZaQUlGY
 
Okay, so it's just game mechanics. Then, yeah, a complete Time Freeze would work. Still, he seems to need to pull out the amulet and charge it up for a second or two before releasing that green aura, so even if his first move is going for the amulet (which I personally doubt giving his usual berserker fighting style, seems much more likely he'll try to fight normally first) there's still nothing protecting him from Accelerator manipulating vectors from a distance to lock him in place, which takes care of the possibility of Kratos using the Amulet.
 
LazyHunter said:
Okay, so it's just game mechanics. Then, yeah, a complete Time Freeze would work. Still, he seems to need to pull out the amulet and charge it up for a second or two before releasing that green aura, so even if his first move is going for the amulet (which I personally doubt giving his usual berserker fighting style, seems much more likely he'll try to fight normally first) there's still nothing protecting him from Accelerator manipulating vectors from a distance to lock him in place, which takes care of the possibility of Kratos using the Amulet.
Click to expand...
Kratos isn't exactly that much of a brute, he's shown educating his son about tactics in war and not just blindly rushing into battle in the new gameplay trailer for GOW reboot, as he learned in the first installment of the series. By around 2 or even as late as 3, Kratos is a rage driven warrior but is also not an idiot about tactics. Give him prep, and he would win this fight.

But in a straight brawl where the two don't know anything about each other, I can see it easily playing out in the manner you suggested because of the blitz hax Angel can open with. Kratos only takes this fight if he can get the Amulet off with prep knowledge and gets it off before the vectors are manipulated. In any other scenario, Angel wins imo.
 
I'm not putting down Kratos, he's a skilled warrior and appears to have matured as of the reboot, which is not part of this battle since it's not out yet. But you have to admit that he's mainly driven by rage and in battle focuses most in crushing the enemy with raw power, not exactly in outsmarting them by using his magic items.

Prep wouldn't allow him to charge the amulet in the few seconds prior to the fight so that it goes off as it starts, in the same way it wouldn't allow Accelerator to syphon energy from the Earth's rotation and release it as a blast towards Kratos as the battle starts. Prep is also not a magic word that gives you all the knowledge you need on an opponent and their abilities, unless you can reasonably argue it's within the character's abilities to do so (a seer or precog could maybe do it), so Kratos would not know he needs the amulet to win anyway.
 
LazyHunter said:
I'm not putting down Kratos, he's a skilled warrior and appears to have matured as of the reboot, which is not part of this battle since it's not out yet. But you have to admit that he's mainly driven by rage and in battle focuses most in crushing the enemy with raw power, not exactly in outsmarting them by using his magic items.
Prep wouldn't allow him to charge the amulet in the few seconds prior to the fight so that it goes off as it starts, in the same way it wouldn't allow Accelerator to syphon energy from the Earth's rotation and release it as a blast towards Kratos as the battle starts. Prep is also not a magic word that gives you all the knowledge you need on an opponent and their abilities, unless you can reasonably argue it's within the character's abilities to do so (a seer or precog could maybe do it), so Kratos would not know he needs the amulet to win anyway.
Click to expand...
The reboot trailer only gives you a defined scope into it, there are many instances where Kratos' rage is not completely driving his entire battle plan and that trailer was just meant to emphasize that he learned about combat well before teaching his son. IE, Hermes attempts to trash talk him and play to that rage, but Kratos is shown to be more calculating and is utilizing that rage in a manner that allows him to outsmart the god who is able to run circles around him with his speed. He uses that raw power more effectively against the gods he can abuse it with, but against Hercules who is extensively stronger than he, the strategy of the fight is to bait him into spiked walls to create the openings that lead to the final cutscene. Where they would not have been weakened, if Kratos did not outsmart them in battle. Using the magical items would've broken the story and gameplay. If Kratos had an item as ridiculous as that amulet in the game, he could literally just freeze time, kill anyone he wanted, and unfreeze without there ever being a legitamite problem in the plot that he couldn't just solve from that. To dismiss them in this context because you don't see him abuse it in gameplay is not a fair argument.

Also, you're overstating that "charge up" time, where he only does a flashy little explosion of energy with the device. There is nothing indicating he needs to charge up to utilize its power other than the developers wanting to make a more appealing and flashy display of power when you activate the amulet. Also cementing an argument around animation effects is discrediting the potential of the characters.

Finally, I am using "prep" in the context where both fighters know everything about each other and are prepared to fight with strategies before hand. Going into a fight blind, Kratos' durability doesn't really seem to overcome Angel's immediate hax, so Angel wins on that front unless there are character aspects that would see him negate using such extreme methods on Kratos at the start of the fight and give Kratos the opportunity to activate the amulet (which,any sane fighter would immediately turn to if their entire ability to fight back was completely restricted). I was only stating that if both fighters have that prep knowledge, Kratos wins because he can abuse that amulet in an equalized setting faster than Angel can control those vectors.

The OP left out a few factors in this fight that effectively determine the realm of theory and conjecture you are entering, so you will also need to back up Angel's character into justifying the use of extreme shut down tactics if he has no starting knowledge of Kratos' Amulet. Who could activate it well before Angel even realizes what is going on, depending on his motivation, his fighting style, and how he handles situations.
 
The reboot is still not used in this match, which it's a Kratos composite of existing sources. The examples you give me are still straight fights and not the type of fight where you need to figure out the trick/power the opponent is using in order to win, which is where Accelerator's power comes from and what I meant. There's literally zero reason for Kratos' first move to be pulling out the amulet or actually being cautious of Accelerator, who will, in his eyes, be just a scrawny cripple. He's much more likely to simply go for a regular attack, which will backfire and hurt him. Then, before he knows what's going on, Accelerator can finish him with active vector manipulation.

In the video you showed me he needed to get close to the target, pull out the amulet and charge it for a second or two before then releasing a little green explosion. Only then could he start manipulating the time of the target. If you have a source of him using the amulet without him pulling it out and charging it first I'm all ears, but until then it's either that or the green beam of light that will likely be useless against Accelerator.

That's not prep, that's knowledge of the opponent and their powers, and in this site the standard setting is "no prep nor immediate knowledge on the opponent" in order to make fights fair for both combatants. If you give Kratos knowledge on Accelerator so that he knows that he needs to use his Amulet to win, you should also give Accelerator knowledge on Kratos, which meas that Accelerator will stop him from using the Amulet. And the only thing angel wings Accelerator needs to do to control vectors and stop Kratos from moving is raise his hand towards Accelerator, so Kratos is in no way activating the amulet before being stopped.

In angel form Accelerator's first move is either going to be "multiple wing swipe" or "vector crush". Either of those kills Kratos. Accelerator's ego has been crused multiple times before, he started taking all opponents seriously a bit before WWIII so there's no reason for him to hold back here, especially since in his current state he knows he has to end fights as quickly as possible.
 
LazyHunter said:
The reboot is still not used in this match, which it's a Kratos composite of existing sources. The examples you give me are still straight fights and not the type of fight where you need to figure out the trick/power the opponent is using in order to win, which is where Accelerator's power comes from and what I meant. There's literally zero reason for Kratos' first move to be pulling out the amulet or actually being cautious of Accelerator, who will, in his eyes, be just a scrawny cripple. He's much more likely to simply go for a regular attack, which will backfire and hurt him. Then, before he knows what's going on, Accelerator can finish him with active vector manipulation.
In the video you showed me he needed to get close to the target, pull out the amulet and charge it for a second or two before then releasing a little green explosion. Only then could he start manipulating the time of the target. If you have a source of him using the amulet without him pulling it out and charging it first I'm all ears, but until then it's either that or the green beam of light that will likely be useless against Accelerator.

That's not prep, that's knowledge of the opponent and their powers, and in this site the standard setting is "no prep nor immediate knowledge on the opponent" in order to make fights fair for both combatants. If you give Kratos knowledge on Accelerator so that he knows that he needs to use his Amulet to win, you should also give Accelerator knowledge on Kratos, which meas that Accelerator will stop him from using the Amulet. And the only thing angel wings Accelerator needs to do to control vectors and stop Kratos from moving is raise his hand towards Accelerator, so Kratos is in no way activating the amulet before being stopped.

In angel form Accelerator's first move is either going to be "multiple wing swipe" or "vector crush". Either of those kills Kratos. Accelerator's ego has been crused multiple times before, he started taking all opponents seriously a bit before WWIII so there's no reason for him to hold back here, especially since in his current state he knows he has to end fights as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
You're arguing the semantics of the point, I'm not using Old Kratos to justify anything in this debate. I only used that as an example to show Kratos' actual insight into combat, the one that has to be analyzed closer in the games to understand. It was just plainly stated in that trailer, but the examples are given above. The fights do indicate that Kratos' accurately anaylzes most of his simpler opponents, and while Angel is in a different type of fighter, Kratos has never once shown extreme overconfidence that led to understimating opponents. To assume he would now just because of your own perception of their physical appearances is an unfair argument of his character's personality.

That same video actually refutes that belief, because 15 seconds into it, the player is shown almost activating the green aura instantly, and the entire vicinity of objects regarding the wheel begin to move, indicating the range of the blast is more of a dome effect and not singular target based in its most pure form. The other examples show a flashy animation display or are skillshots designed to make the item weak enough not to jeopardize the plot. But in its unrestricted adaptation, that Amulet literally gives Kratos to stop time at his choosing. Something he would readily abuse in a fight, if he even felt the slightest overwhelmed.

Then we can agree to disagree on that point. You believe Accelerator can stop Kratos from activating the Amulet in a controlled setting, I do not. There is no factual argument to be made here, only speculation and conjecture on how it could turn out when both scenarios are probable. So that will be my final response on that point.

What are the specifics on those moves? Kratos' durability is also quite considerable, considering this guy was also able to keep moving and escape from Olympus with a hole literally splitting him open from the middle of his chest near his throat all the way down to his lower abdomen when he stabbed himself with the Blade of Olympus in GOW3. There are also plenty of feats where he survives city wide explosions, plowed through multiple buildings at once without a scratch, and tanking lightning shots that rip apart titans with their power before subsequently falling hundreds of meters and landing in the Underworld mostly unharmed. I don't really see the logical conclusion that Kratos is incapable of winning if Accelerator needs to use more than one attack to kill him
 
No. As an ancient warrior from a strength-focused martial society he's not going to be cautious of a scrawny cripple with no apparent power, not to the point he will choose to use that particular amulet over any other of his more direct powers. And none of the examples you gave of Kratos are any notable tactics used to win an otherwise impossible fight. And even if they were, they would be in the minority compared to the number of encounters and problems Kratos solves through raw power, which is the important part. I'm not arguing Kratos is incapable of smarts, I'm arguing against him being the kind of character to make effective use of pre-fight prep, perform mid-combat enemy power breakdown (which is key in order to fight Accelerator), or to open a fight using time manipulation, like you seem to claim he is. None of what you have said has convinced me of the opposite.

In your video, first Kratos gets next to the target, the broken section of the water wheel. Then he takes out the amulet and 1-2 seconds after there's a green blast of energy and then he can start affecting its time. Sorry, but the one that needs to prove that Kratos will use the amulet over literally anything else in his wide variety of weapons and artifacts at the start of the fith when he doesn't even know he needs to nor he knows what his opponent is capable of is you. And in order to do so you can't actually use gameplay, as that's up to the player's choice and not to Kratos' personality, so you'll have to find a couple scenes where he actually pulls out the amulet at the start of a fight to freeze the enemy in place before killing them instead of fighting them normally to prove it would not be out of character for him to open a fight like that.

No, we cannot agree to disagree on that point, sorry. Both characters should start within range of the other, which means that Accelerator and Kratos can both attack each other after the fight starts. As mentioned, the most likely first moves of Accelerator are more than enough to prevent Kratos from using the amulet should he by a remote chance open up the fight trying to use it, while Kratos' most likely choice, his normal weapons, are not going to hurt Accelerator and instead will hurt him.

Accelerator's best moves, especially in angel form but he also has some in base form, negate conventional durability. His wings destroy regular matter on contact and he can touch someone to rip them from the inside out or cause their organs to explode with their own bloodflow. Or he can fry their brain with their own bioelectricity. None of the feats you mentioned are anything special to Accelerator, who tanked an attack that would destroy Eurasia without his Vector Redirection and even in his weakest form can casually syphon enough energy from the planet to slow down his rotation.

I think I've made my point several times by now and IMO you keep repeating the same things I've debunked. I don't care that much about this match and it's getting late where I live, so I'll leave it here. Also, you shouldn't quote entire posts like that if they are too long, if your post is right beneath mine everyone will already know that you are replying to my post. If you want to choose a post from a specific user you can just put @ and the name of the user you're replying to like I did in my first reply.
 
After reading all of that, I must say I am surprised, although Accelerator still wins. Kratos ca bypass his Vector Shield, but Accelerator still outhaxes him.

A shame, though.
 
people still ignore if Kratos can BFR him into pocket dimension ?? or using telekinesis to blow up his head..?? damn i tought this is composite kratos.


btw new God of War is not reboot. It's sequel to GoW 3
 
TK is useless due to vector shield, though Kratos'es BFR could work assuming Accelerator doesn't kill Kratos before he thinks to use it.
 
Irrelevent since Accelerator can just reflect Kratos'es attacks back at him or mess with his insides.

Kratos'es power nul (and BFR) would work if use right off the bat but that's out of character for him to open with those abilities.
 
@Delta

Accelerator can't be BFR'for since his redirection stops teleportatipn since it relies on vectors of transport.

I doubt Kratos would use the Eyes of Truthimmediately on a scrawny albino teenager.
 
So what is the best Hax Accelerator has? because his hax looks broken to me for the example:

Invert blood flow: so what kind of hax is this ? electricy manipulation ? kratos can resist that hax then. plus he need to touch a persons open wound. So first accelator need to wound kratos but i think that would be impossible since his striking strength is only multi-city block class. Plus if this kratos with power of hope, he would get burn if he try to touch kratos..

if he using other attack like tornado, plasma, and dust explosion kratos would just reflecting it with his equipment.

i tought he has some weakness like :"The electrode on his neck which allows him use of his powers only has 30 minutes of battery, his connection to the Misaka Network can be jammed and the signal is worse while in tunnels or underground, and Telesma can pierce his reflection" So high powerfull magic should be able to pierce his vector.

kratos would just keep with him, and remember kratos has massive stamina plus If Accelerator reflect his attack then kratos can reflect his attack back to him and he will do same thing over and over again until the battery is out. if this strategy is not working Kratos can use the eyes of the truth to remove the shield. Remember the eyes of the truth can remove some unknown barrier that kratos encounters in GoW ascension which the barrier is indestructible.

what if kratos summon the black holes during fight ? can he reflect that ? i think vector manipulation has something to do with gravity.

and also kratos has matter manipulation resistance, So kratos should not have problem to fight him.
 
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