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Nope. In the God of War universe there was only "nothingness" before the Primordials. It is pretty much that they're the embodiment of the void, according to the lore.Dargoo Faust said:
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Kratos Tier 2-C Downgrade.
- Thread starter Spawn888
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- god of war kratos
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Ah, nevermind then. I was under the assumption the universe was already a thing before the primordials duked it out.Kepekley23 said:
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I agree as well, and feel like this is the case for a lot of characters. I might make a thread regarding that later this year if I'm not too busy.Kepekley23 said:
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I mean sure, but Kratos was never a speedster. IMO the fastest Kratos was when he had the boots of Hermes.Kepekley23 said:
Even his reaction speed is inconsistent via the current ratings, he's failed to react to both lightning and light as well if I remember correctly.
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I agree that absolutely nothing supports infinite speed and that a lot of the feats / statements being currently used to justify 3-A or whatever are extremely questionable.
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It's pretty obvious that Uranus' body created "the stars", but that is literally a 4-A feat. They were already fighting in an empty space when the fighting started and didn't produce a Big Bang. The fact that Uranus' explosion literally created a recognizeable real life nebula (The God's Eye Nebula) also debunks that his body is universal in size.
It obviously isn't.
And I still question how we can seriously take statements such as "This spear supports the weight of the cosmos" and a comic-con statement of "Cronos killed his father Uranus at the dawn of time" as proof of 3-A and Low 2-C respectively. Specially since Cronos creating time is demonstrably wrong.
It seems that there is a lot of double standards surrounding how God of War is being ranked by supporters here on the wiki. Practically everything going on here wouldn't fly in any other verse, and in fact some of the supporters have barred similar upgrades on other series.
It obviously isn't.
And I still question how we can seriously take statements such as "This spear supports the weight of the cosmos" and a comic-con statement of "Cronos killed his father Uranus at the dawn of time" as proof of 3-A and Low 2-C respectively. Specially since Cronos creating time is demonstrably wrong.
It seems that there is a lot of double standards surrounding how God of War is being ranked by supporters here on the wiki. Practically everything going on here wouldn't fly in any other verse, and in fact some of the supporters have barred similar upgrades on other series.
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Am I the only seeing the scale of that video is completely all over the place?
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It's interesting that every single feat in the opening after Uranus' is planetary in scope and its implication with Gaia stating that they "forged the Earth".Dargoo Faust said:
Reminds me of Gyeges stating that Uranus and Gaia are the "Father of the universe and mother of the Earth" respectively, as if both are feats of equal significance. The narrative that the primordials are consistently depicted as 3-A / Low 2-C in scale is blatantly false. Only at the highest interpretation is Uranus 3-A.
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I'll be honest, there does seem to be a lot of headcanon going on here to assume the highest possible interpretation.
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Exactly my point. The issue I have with God of War is less that the proposed interpretations come out of nowhere, or are completely unprovable and demonstrably wrong, but that they are the highest possible interpretation coming off ambiguous statements.Ogbunabali said:
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Now that you mention it, I'm suspicious of current ratings as well.
Count me as neutral for now.
Count me as neutral for now.
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So before this continues. I will just ask that Matt, WindGod and everyone else stay completely respectful and not result in personally attacking a person you dislike. "Stating observations" does not justify this either. You post anything personal, I am deleting the comment immediately and you will hace to rewrite it. Understood? Because, I've seen Matt vs WindGod far too much at this point. And GoW stuff has slowly more unsightly each thread. Thank you.
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Here we go again...
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Excuse me for probably being blind, but I don't see anything going wrong with this thread.
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Excuse me for probably being blind, but I don't see anything going wrong with this thread.
No, I am noting this before anything happens.
No, I am noting this before anything happens.
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The thread is being super peaceful actually, and I have actually nothing to do with the origin of these downgrades. Incredulity and disbelief in the current GoW ratings has been rising for over a month now by itself.
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Are we about to have a round 2?
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There was a bit of a back and forth between KratosSolosDB and Spawn but otherwise it's peaceful.
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Since we're heading into a repeat of the events of the last thread.
> It's pretty obvious that Uranus' body created "the stars", but that is literally a 4-A feat. They were already fighting in an empty space when the fighting started and didn't produce a Big Bang. The fact that Uranus' explosion literally created a recognizeable real life nebula (The God's Eye Nebula) also debunks that his body is universal in size.
At one point you say he created all the stars, and at one point you say he created a "recognizable real life nebula" with his explosion. Which one is it? All stars together wouldn't fit together into a single nebulae. Or maybe we can actually take the statements at face value instead of going by the fact that the explosion surrounding his body looks a little, teensy bit like a real life structure? Which is obvious pareidolia either way?
It is stated three separate times that Uranus created the universe in the comic book. This immediately dismisses any sort of contention made in this thread that has nothing backing it up.
> And I still question how we can seriously take statements such as "This spear supports the weight of the cosmos" and a comic-con statement of "Cronos killed his father Uranus at the dawn of time" as proof of 3-A and Low 2-C respectively. Specially since Cronos creating time is demonstrably wrong.
We can take the first statement seriously because it is literally meant to be taken seriously. So says the artbook of the game, and so says WoG. The exaggeration is supposed to be literal and taken on purpose according to an official commentary on the multiplayer weapons. Saying literally anything else requires you to actually put up proof against it instead of just disbelieving the statement.
And, for the second one, that isn't even what is actually stated by the panel to begin with. Can you actually provide evidence against the feat instead of saying it is "obviously wrong"? Saying it's wrong "because it is" isn't, and will never be an argument.
> It's interesting that every single feat in the opening after Uranus' is planetary in scope and its implication with Gaia stating that they "forged the Earth".
Gaia, the embodiment of the earth who was spawned by said war, talks about her domain, yes.
> Reminds me of Gyeges stating that Uranus and Gaia are the "Father of the universe and mother of the Earth" respectively, as if both are feats of equal significance
No, he doesn't say that.
> It's pretty obvious that Uranus' body created "the stars", but that is literally a 4-A feat. They were already fighting in an empty space when the fighting started and didn't produce a Big Bang. The fact that Uranus' explosion literally created a recognizeable real life nebula (The God's Eye Nebula) also debunks that his body is universal in size.
At one point you say he created all the stars, and at one point you say he created a "recognizable real life nebula" with his explosion. Which one is it? All stars together wouldn't fit together into a single nebulae. Or maybe we can actually take the statements at face value instead of going by the fact that the explosion surrounding his body looks a little, teensy bit like a real life structure? Which is obvious pareidolia either way?
It is stated three separate times that Uranus created the universe in the comic book. This immediately dismisses any sort of contention made in this thread that has nothing backing it up.
> And I still question how we can seriously take statements such as "This spear supports the weight of the cosmos" and a comic-con statement of "Cronos killed his father Uranus at the dawn of time" as proof of 3-A and Low 2-C respectively. Specially since Cronos creating time is demonstrably wrong.
We can take the first statement seriously because it is literally meant to be taken seriously. So says the artbook of the game, and so says WoG. The exaggeration is supposed to be literal and taken on purpose according to an official commentary on the multiplayer weapons. Saying literally anything else requires you to actually put up proof against it instead of just disbelieving the statement.
And, for the second one, that isn't even what is actually stated by the panel to begin with. Can you actually provide evidence against the feat instead of saying it is "obviously wrong"? Saying it's wrong "because it is" isn't, and will never be an argument.
> It's interesting that every single feat in the opening after Uranus' is planetary in scope and its implication with Gaia stating that they "forged the Earth".
Gaia, the embodiment of the earth who was spawned by said war, talks about her domain, yes.
> Reminds me of Gyeges stating that Uranus and Gaia are the "Father of the universe and mother of the Earth" respectively, as if both are feats of equal significance
No, he doesn't say that.
- "Sired by Uranus, he who gave life to the universe. Torn off the loins of Gaia, mother of all creation."
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Yeah, this thread is peaceful. There was a little bit of hostility between the OP and Kep at first but it's mostly washed over now.
I'm still for the most part neutral, although I'm concerned about the double standards from our desision on pocket reality feats regarding the size chart being used here. I will say Matt brings up some good points.
I'm still for the most part neutral, although I'm concerned about the double standards from our desision on pocket reality feats regarding the size chart being used here. I will say Matt brings up some good points.
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Mind actually linking the fabled artbook scans and WoG scans. Cause it seems like over half the support comes from these but no one ever links them.
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Here, on the blog that is linked on every single page of the franchise in the wiki, as well as in the main page of it explaining the tiers one at a time, but if you want the artbook scan specifically, here it is.
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@Kep
Doesn't this say Chaos is the father of the universe?
Doesn't this say Chaos is the father of the universe?
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I suppose a full-on top-to-bottom deconstruction of the blog might be worth it in the near future.
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I disagree with the downgrades FRA
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No.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Gyges was born to Uranus, not Chaos, therefore by "this world is the birthright to those who were born to the son of Chaos, father of the universe" he is talking about Uranus. Not to mention that Chaos isn't even a man in the series.
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As stated in the very first paragraph of this sca, the weapons of the multiplayer were purposedfully made to be big, over the top in both story and design, while still being literal pieces of the lore of the God of War universe. Therefore, all claims of hyperbole for the spear kinda fall apart right there, aside from the burden of the proof being on those who claim that either way.
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That doesn't at all confirm what you think it does. All it says is that the weapons were meant to be big, mythological and over-the-top. A spear possessing the weight of the cosmos is by itself a pretty big statement, but can be easily be read as metaphorical, just as "carrying the world on his shoulders" is often used as a metaphorical phrase for any great act of resilience. A spear that dense would collapse into a supermassive black hole.
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> That doesn't at all confirm what you think it does. All it says is that the weapons were meant to be big, mythological and over-the-top
The weapons were meant to be very big and over-the-top, while telling a distinct story about their origin which fit into a distinct footprint. Then they said that they were meant to communicate literal, true things about the lore of the God of War universe - the only descriptions that we're given of the weapons that would allow them to "tell a story about their origin" is...precisely their story descriptions.
This is about as good of a confirmation of the validity as it gets.
> A spear possessing the weight of the cosmos is by itself a pretty big statement
No, no. That is not even what is actually stated.
> A spear that dense would collapse into a supermassive black hole.
Irrelevant and cherrypicking science. Or we can also apply a similar concept to, say, the Karma Fortress from Asura's Wrath, which dwarfs the Earth to the point of being star-sized yet hasn't collapsed into a sphere due to its sheer density and mass, like gravity would dictate any object with sufficient mass would need to at even a tenth of that size.
Even then - this argument is not relevant due to what I posted above.
The weapons were meant to be very big and over-the-top, while telling a distinct story about their origin which fit into a distinct footprint. Then they said that they were meant to communicate literal, true things about the lore of the God of War universe - the only descriptions that we're given of the weapons that would allow them to "tell a story about their origin" is...precisely their story descriptions.
This is about as good of a confirmation of the validity as it gets.
> A spear possessing the weight of the cosmos is by itself a pretty big statement
No, no. That is not even what is actually stated.
- "Forged in the Sun's core, this spear possesses the strength to bear the weight of the cosmos"
> A spear that dense would collapse into a supermassive black hole.
Irrelevant and cherrypicking science. Or we can also apply a similar concept to, say, the Karma Fortress from Asura's Wrath, which dwarfs the Earth to the point of being star-sized yet hasn't collapsed into a sphere due to its sheer density and mass, like gravity would dictate any object with sufficient mass would need to at even a tenth of that size.
Even then - this argument is not relevant due to what I posted above.
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Just going to say that "giving life to the universe" doesnt automatically mean universal creation.
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"With your death, we will once again rule all that our father (Uranus) created."Xerkser500 said:
"This world is the birthright to those who were born to the Son of Chaos (Uranus), father of the universe."
In this context it does.
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@Kep
Tbh that sentence is structured pretty odd, If it's saying that son of chaos = universe father. It should be structured like something akin to this "We, who were to born to (Uranus), father of the universe, the son of Chaos"
Tbh that sentence is structured pretty odd, If it's saying that son of chaos = universe father. It should be structured like something akin to this "We, who were to born to (Uranus), father of the universe, the son of Chaos"
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It indeed is, but given that statement was specifically meant to be Gyges trying to say the reason why the universe is a birthright to him specifically is because his father is the creator of the universe, and his father is Uranus, then it's fairly unambiguous.
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RIP majin
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"With your death, we will once again rule all that our father (Uranus) created."
"This world is the birthright to those who were born to the Son of Chaos (Uranus), father of the universe."
In this context it does.
I don't know about you, but in the video...Uranus and other Primordials seem to have created aspects of the universe invidually. Surely, Uranus didn't create everything by himself.
If you count the surface of the Earth as a major aspect of the universe, then yes.
Uranus was responsible for the loftiest part of the universe, ie the cosmos. Literally 99.99999% of it.
"This world is the birthright to those who were born to the Son of Chaos (Uranus), father of the universe."
In this context it does.
I don't know about you, but in the video...Uranus and other Primordials seem to have created aspects of the universe invidually. Surely, Uranus didn't create everything by himself.
If you count the surface of the Earth as a major aspect of the universe, then yes.
Uranus was responsible for the loftiest part of the universe, ie the cosmos. Literally 99.99999% of it.
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I don't know about you, but in the video...Uranus and other Primordials seem to have created aspects of the universe invidually. Surely, Uranus didn't create everything by himself.Kepekley23 said:
If you count the surface of the Earth as a major aspect of the universe, then yes.
Uranus was responsible for the loftiest part of the universe, ie the cosmos. Literally 99.99999% of it.
Did he intentionally create the universe? Because in the video when he was punched, it seems like the cause of it was the other Primordial that socked him.
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